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crt screen material query

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by rob_w, Apr 18, 2003.

  1. rob_w

    rob_w
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    Hi guys,

    I just asked harknesshall about the screen material for my room. I asked this:

    I am building a frame for the screen to be stretched on, which will be 72" x 40.5". The projector is a Barco Data 800 CRT. The room is totally blacked out, and painted dark purple. The viewing distance is 12Ft. Viewing angle is minimal. ( 2 seater sofa, in front of screen) The projector will be floor mounted.


    They suggested I need a matt white gain 1.0 - not necessary for me to have the perlux 1.4...

    Do you agree?

    About to order - cheers for any info.. :)

    Rob
     
  2. shaunr

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    Hi Rob,

    Sounds exactly like the dimensions of my room and i wish to buy / make the same size 16:9 screen for use with my Sony 1272. I'm sure that there's more knowledgeable opinions than mine in this forum but i was looking to go for material that was a 1.3 gain (this would probably be on a bought screen).

    Hope this helps,

    Shaun
     
  3. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    I have a 1271 with a 12ft viewing distance and a 40x72" screen.

    I had been using a 1.5 gain da-lite and hadnt really thought about the gain until I changed it.

    Changed it because there were a couple of creases that annoyed me and I had the chance of a 1.0 gain da-lite screen that was a pull down in that ratio for £40. (I cut the fabric out and mount it to a frame btw.)

    where as I had the contratst at 60 and the brigtness at 47 on the sony with the G2 settings spot on at 4v, I now have to have the contrats at 80 and the brightness at 53 and there still isnt the same amount of punch in the pic.
    And more importantly with the contrat higher there is a little bit of blooming in the image so it is not as sharp.

    I am about to order the harkness material my self and I am thinking that I may try there 1.8.

    We are all different but I wouldnt use a 1 gain, having used both 1 and 1.5, it is not a subtle difference either.

    Guy
     
  4. shaunr

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    Very interesting comments Guy! 1.8, hadn't even been a consideration with me... until now:D


    Anyone else got any thoughts on this please?

    Cheers,


    Shaun
     
  5. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    I will order the 1.8 on tuesday and reprt back because the 1 gain just isnt doing it for me.
     
  6. rob_w

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    Hi thanx for the input...

    I must say I was surprised when they recommended the grey screen - I've never heard of a crt using grey material...

    I've sent a mail to crtprojectors.co.uk aswell, to get a second quote/opinion.

    I'm sticking with 1.3/1.4 at the moment...

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  7. shaunr

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  8. rob_w

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    Cheers for the pointer.

    I just used Godon's calculator thing:

    (screen gain) x (projector output in ANSI lumens)/Sqft of screen = Peak White level measured in Foot Lamberts or ftL

    I'm using a 20.25 sq ft screen, and assuming the ansi of my Barco is 140 (figure taken from this thread:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62808&highlight=barco+ansi


    This means a ftl of 9.68, and Gordon said to aim for 8-10

    Thats with a 1.4 gain screen.

    Rob

    edited to change screen size - calculated for a 4:3 first instead of 16:9
     
  9. rob_w

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    Shaunr,

    I asked crtprojectors about the gain thing, and this was the reply:

    ""Draper actually moved the goal posts with M1300, home theatre screen suppliers in the USA demanded a 1.0 gain material for DLP/LCD projectors so Draper changed the way they measure gain. The actual spec by the new method is 1.115 gain, however M1300 is still the same surface and is still 1.3 gain. I have seen many screen materials over the years in my own home system, I use M1300 now and I can assure you it is not 1.0 gain in the real world. Screen gains are a bit of a black art, manufacturers are free to more or less say what they like as there is no industry standard method of measuring gain, this leads to considerable confusion and makes dirrect comparisons hard. If you are concerned please do come and look at both M1300 and straight matte white surface used on the same projector, it's very easy to see the difference between the two.""

    Anybody care to elaborate?

    I'm getting confused now :)

    Rob
     
  10. shaunr

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    Hi Rob,

    I'd agree, very confusing. Probably best if Gordon F can add his thoughts (please). I haven't heard of any changes in the way measurements are taken.

    Might also be worth checking out the screens forum over at AVS. There have been extensive reviews performed by Tryg there.


    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=240074


    Cheers,

    Shaun
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    If Henry has both and can show you the difference then I would believe him. I looked up the graphs of M1300 in Drapers old brochure and on their website. These graphs show how much light is reflected back at different angles. The old and new graphs were significantly different.......I don't know how it can be the same material that created them. However I 'm sure that the specs game is just as prevalent in screen industry as electronics!

    So if Henry can do a dem to show it's not 1.1 then I'd believe him.

    Gordon
     
  12. rob_w

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    Hi Chaps,

    I decided to go with the perlux 140 from Harkness. I'll let you know how it goes (as and when I get my a*se in gear to make the screen etc...)

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  13. shaunr

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    Good Luck Rob! Keep us informed as i'll probably be following a similar route in the near future.

    Cheers,

    Shaun
     
  14. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    Hi Rob,

    I looked over at Ellies' site for the screen material I bought - is it me, or is it now £92 for 2400 x 1000??

    That's a lot more than I got mine for - maybe that's the new price because they had to order a new roll of the stuff for my order.

    Guess I was very lucky for a change...

    Gary.
     
  15. rob_w

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    Hi Gary,

    I never tried ellie for screen material, but I'm reckoning that the perlux will come in around 70-80 quid (+p&p and vat etc)

    I'll let you know when they get back to me with the price (it's listed at £36.09 per sq metre on their pricelist (downloadable pdf)

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  16. rob_w

    rob_w
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    Update:

    I received the material a few weeks back, and have made the frame, masked it and put it up on the walll.

    P&P and vat knocked it up to about £130, but the packaging was excessive, and heavy.

    I've decided to ceiling mount the pj, but did a quick setup on the floor to see how it looks.

    I've not seen any other screens with a crt, so this is purely my opinion.

    I'm happy with it - the contrast is around 70 on the barco800 and the brightness around 60 - This may change when I setup the hcpc properly.

    It definitely is better than a matt wall or blackout lining. The surface is slightly textured though, so white shows a slight 'orange peel'. Not enough to upset me, but others may disagree.

    Sorry I can't compare it to much, but I don't know anyone else with a pj, but I thought I'd let you know.

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  17. BrianCurran

    BrianCurran
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    Rob

    Did you get the Perlux 1.4 or 1.8?
    How long did it take HH to process and deliver your order?

    I've been considering these for some time myself. But I'm worried about the 'orange peel' effect you describe!! So, I'm steering towards the Matt Plus material at the moment.

    Regards
     
  18. rob_w

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    Hi Brian,

    It was the perlux 140. It took a bit too long as HH lost my first order (you have to fax it through.....), but after the initial confusion it got here ok.

    I must say, even though they messed it up a bit they were all very helpful and polite on the phone. I'd recommend them hoping that my experience was a one off.

    The orange peel stuff isn't too noticable. I suppose it depends on the distance from the screen - my seat is approx 12' to the front of my sofa (screen size 72" x 40.5")

    I've been using it for sky and dvd's for 5 days now, and it hasn't upset me. You have to look for it to see it.

    Are you using a crt? - If so I'd go for the gain over a smooth surface any time. Have you considered the draper m1300? - You could e-mail http://www.crtprojectors.co.uk and ask about the smoothness of the material.

    HTH

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  19. BrianCurran

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    Hi Rob

    Yes, I'll be using the screen with a NEC 6PG CRT.
    I will probably be sitting about 11 ft from the screen.

    Have you got used to the smell yet?
    I have some HH screen samples and they still stink after 6 weeks!!:zonked:

    Regards
     
  20. Rob

    Rob
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    For the record, I used to have a 1.0 gain standard pulldown screen, which always suited me well. I then bought a Draper Premier ,which I think is 1.3, Henrys (from crtprojectors.co.uk) old one, as he now uses a fixed screen. The ideal solution if you can accomodate one.

    the difference was very noticeable. The image is brighter, with the colours having more punch. Contrast & brightness are both around 50, and its nice to have a retractable screen which is 100% flat. I'm not sure on screen specs, but the Draper is definetly brighter than my old 1.0.

    Rob.
     
  21. rob_w

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    Hi Rob,

    What you say backs up what Henry said about the m1300.

    Brian - the material smelt slightly plasticky on opening, but was gone within an hour or so.

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  22. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    In my experience the HH material works well with CRT but needs to be viewed from about 14ft for the texture to become unobtrusive. the 1.8 works for floor mounted projectors.
    I have used these screens a couple of times in the Denon room at the Manchester and Bristol shows. They are brighter than the Stewart, Vutec and Draper equivalents.

    The Harkness screens are true Cinema screens (8ft wide would be like a sample to them)
     
  23. nfordenfield

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    I'm ready to go for the HH 1.4 MPS with three kef ci2000 behind it.

    Hopefully will not "lose" too much to gain the "true" cinema experience of not seeing the speakers and having the voices coming from the screen. Just need some black drapes for the top, bottom and sides and an ice cream lady

    Can also move the screen down a foot as well, was tempted to squeeze 8ft in to help with 2:35 films.

    Should be sorted in about a weeks time I hope.
     
  24. rob_w

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    Hi Roland,

    My sofa's 2' deep, so that puts my eyes about 13.5' from the screen. I'd agree that its unobtrusive.

    I'm about to sort out some unistrut etc to get the pj off the floor, so brace yourself for a lot of Q's :)

    nfordenfield,

    If you reckon you'll lose brightness, can't you go up a level in gain to compensate?

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  25. mortonman

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    I too just purchased a HH 1.4 Screen Fabric that took just 3 weeks to arrive which was ok as it took me that to make the frame. I followed Meeps advice in his DIY thread which was excellent. The screen is 84inches x 47.25 inches and I am using a floor mounted Seleco HT400.

    Roland you were right it does stink but is going already !

    Haven't checked picture yet as I have a bit more work to do on room and get Chris Frost to do convergence.

    As for HH service, I had no problems,

    Matt
     
  26. BrianCurran

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    Roland

    Can you please explain why the 1.8 works for floor mounted projectors?

    Regards
     
  27. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    It is probably a retro reflective material that reflects projected light back to the source.

    If you are Ceiling mounting then go for reflective, one that reflects light at an opposite angle to the source, ie. down to the floor and where you are sitting.
     
  28. BrianCurran

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    gizlaroc

    Your reply makes sence. But, is this actually the case?

    I have read the HH data sheets and don't remember anything about the 1.8 material being retro reflective.

    Regards
     
  29. nfordenfield

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    I'm mentioning the loss due to going to a perforated screen, my screen is 1.0, so going to the 1.4 should still allow me to run the pj alot lower, it is 45 for brightness and 65 for contrast, so hope for upper 30's and 50's with the new screen material

    Rgds
     
  30. Roland @ B4

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    Nathan
    In theory the contrast can be lowered a little, but in fact what will happen is your eyes will compensate. the picture will have a greater contrast because the whites will be brighter. The blacks will change very little if your projector is set up correctly. (or it was when I left it)
     

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