Crt school

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Mark Ham, Sep 27, 2002.

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  1. Mark Ham

    Mark Ham
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    First post, so as they say, go easy.
    Have had a s/h projector from Roland for about 6 months now, ( a 1270 with iscan) . I think it gives really great pictures which are very watchable, oh and it cost very little.
    Having had it set up by the man himself, I have obviously been careful not to move it/ alter settings etc but am itching to understand the workings of the beast a bit more.
    Would anyone else benefit from some crt lessons. I would be willing to pay the going rate for some tuition in setting up a crt projector. This could be generic or for a specific type and would prefer hands on. I can see some potential probs here. Most people would just get the manual, and those who set up projectors as part of their profession might not be keen. I could imagine a group of 2-4 people for a day being shown anything from basic set up to fine tuning. This might be ambitious for a day, but its a start. Would welcome comments.
     
  2. bxd

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    Hi,

    I'd be interested in that.

    Perhaps Roland might be interested in running something like this...... if it doesn't give away too many secrets.

    Brian
     
  3. Bruce123

    Bruce123
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    Good idea!

    I too have one of Rolands refurbished models and although I try not to fiddle I find it hard to resist.Oooh errr.

    I think I could certainly do some extra damage with a little more knowledge! Count me in. More than happy to pay/travel.

    Lets hope you continue to receive positive responses.

    Bruce
     
  4. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Maybe his wife could organise this while he is away at Cedia. ;) :D
     
  5. eyerish

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    Me Too!

    I think Ill be getting a BG808s from Roland and I just know I won`t be able to resist a poke at it. Already had my rear pro tellys apart. Great fun....
     
  6. Rob

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    Owl video use to run a course for the Seleco CRTs they sell. If you were one of thier dealers it was free. I enquired at the time of buying a SVP310 ( about 4 years ago) and was told it would cost me around £150 I think. I declined and set the unit up myself in the end.

    Rob.
     
  7. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    This is pretty much what the ISF course is about.

    The Imaging Science Foundation (ISF) is the organisation Joe Kane (Video Essentails) was involved in founding. Gordon of Convergent AV fame did the course a couple of years ago. I think it was a bit more than £150 though, eh Gordon;)

    Regards
     
  8. buns

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    That is an interesting thought....... By the sounds of it, ISF treatment makes for enormous improvements, would the improvements be equal in value to the cost of the course and equiment? How much does it cost to get yourself certified and have the gear? less than £5k?

    ad
     
  9. Rob

    Rob
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    Should have mentioned... I'm sure somebody like Roland would provide a better standard than the guys at Owl, if the standard of some of thier dealers demo projectors were anything to go by. Diabolical!! This very nearly put me off buying a CRT. It was only when I saw a properly calibrated unit that I realised what could be achieved.

    Rob.
     
  10. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Rob, as an ex-Owl guy I really must protest!
    I went through exactly the same training course as all the dealers. The difference is the amout of practice afterwards. "You can lead a horse to water,..." and all that stuff.
     
  11. Couch Potato

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    I've got to jump to Chris' defense here as well, he's helped me (well pretty much on his own!!) set up my CRT twice, the last time the resulting image was stunning from HCPC. He's one of the few who really do know their stuff. I dont think you can blame OWL for the quality of the dealers (well not directly anyway!)

    Steve
     
  12. Rob

    Rob
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    Oops.....sorry Chris,

    Didn't mean to insult you personally!! Its just that I viewed several 310s/ 350s at the time, at 2 or 3 different Seleco dealers in my area and they were all far short of what they should have been. As you say, practise is the key here and the 350s had only just hit the markets, so for many dealers it was probably thier first experiences with CRTs.

    Apologies!

    Rob.
     
  13. Mark Ham

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    Well I'm glad, that this idea has at least prompted some responses (a big fear when first post). I am sure that there are several people/organisations who could offer something of the nature I proposed. There does remain several stumbling blocks however, in the way of an actual event. Who..... If the advice /demonstration was fairly general then more potentials exist..but it would be nice to have something closer to the actual CRT you run being demonstrated. Should we wait for someone to come forward, or would the potential financial side of such an event mean that it would not be suitable for the forum?
    I would enjoy learning in a more practical environment.
     
  14. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    ISF is actually about learning about video standards, why they exist and how they should be deployed in products. This leads to how to calibrate units to get the highest performance out of them with regards to setting of available controls and also greyscale calibrations. They do not teach CRT set up as such. Although I did go through an additional CRT set up course when I was there. This was done by Jim Dolittle. To give you an idea of how important set up of a crt projector can be let me tell you this.

    I was sat next to a chap who regularily sold G90's with FAROUDJA3000/5000's. He watched the image that Jim had done on a Runco992Ultra (cine8 in disguise which is a souped up 808) and a Runco PFP scaler. The guy had his jaw on the floor......Looked cool...

    I've just got back from CEDIA USA and there were a few CRT's there too. Two were good/great. One was AMAZING!...More later..

    Anyway, Buns it cost a week of my time and my entire savings (more than £150) to do ISF training. I don't know if I've managed to get recoup it all yet...Hopefully soon.

    I'll consider this idea for Event 2.

    Gordon

    P.S. Chris is good at setting up SIM projectors, other too probably.....
    P.S Roland is good at setting up lots of crt's too.....
    P.S. Alan Roser and Chris taught me about Sim's
    Roland has sort of taught me about Barco's
    Runco taught me about Nec's and Zenith
    I taught myself about Electrohome and Sony......
    We are all still learning....
     
  15. Steve Stifler

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    Hi Gordon

    Hope you can get over the jet lag quick and tell us about the CRTs, plus anything on scalers etc. Hope you had a great time in the US.

    From the posts above, they should have been at Event 2, which I found very helpful. Say Hi to Mel and Ian.

    Jezz (aka Stifmeister)
     
  16. bxd

    bxd
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    Hi,

    I don't think that anyone was proposing a ISF course for £150.... besides I don't suppose that there is anyone in the UK who is qualified to 'run' an ISF course.

    I suspect that most of us would just want to be able to do a set-up to the same sort of level that a competent technician could do.

    While many people get good support from this and other similar forums (mainly AVS Forums) it would still be useful to get some 'practical' experience from some of the people who HAVE experience in these matters.

    Brian.
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Brian,

    Of course it's a great idea and one I fully endorse. As I say we'll see what can be done about this and how we can organise it. I can't promise anything but who knows!!!

    Gordon
     
  18. buns

    buns
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    well count me in if something does happen, i might not have a crt yet.......but i will!

    ad

    ps. Gordon, how much is the ISF hardware? a rough figure.....
     
  19. Roland @ B4

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    I know I'm coming in here late but I've been away at the CEDIA show in Minneapolis.
    CRT still wins chaps,
    Nothing, and I mean nothing was able to beat the quality of CRT


    Back to the subject. I would love to run something like this and had several thoughts but want to know what others would like to get out of this.

    My plan would be to rent a hotel/seminar room in the most popular towns and run it as an evening session with a break for a pizza etc.

    It might even be worth doing as two sessions.
    Installation, covering
    Positioning
    Mechanical focus
    Geometry

    Then a 2nd session with
    Electrical set up
    Electrical focus
    G2
    Convergence

    It would be nice If I could put a projector or two on show too.;)

    Give me some one liners as to what would need to be covered and we'll put it together
     
  20. Steve Stifler

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    I would be interested. Still wanting to move home to get a CRT and pass on the, ahem, lcd! See you at Pinewood next week. My area is London, South East England.
    Regards
    Jeremie
     
  21. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The Video Analyser I use is SRP $1500 and the training was around $1000. Plus travel and accomodation.

    Gordon
     
  22. GagHalfrunt

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    I've always struggled to get the astigmatism correct (I take it that this would be included in one of the categories that Roland mentioned).

    I live in the West Midlands if you're interested in taking locations. I would certainly like to attend such a thing.
     
  23. Mark Ham

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    Phew, it has taken a while, but finally after some rather big hints Roland has replied in the positive. I am totally bias but Nottingham has a very central feel about it (in terms of one of the locations), and the Sony 12** series among others would represent those on a limited buget who love their big sceen thrills.
    Having said that, if it were held in northern Scotland and exclusively Barco, I would still love to attend.
     
  24. LostInUK

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    Roland,

    I would be also interested and I live in London too. A CRT projector is in my plans, so the understanding of how it all works would be extrememly useful. I do not intend to do the instalation by myself (do not think a simple course can give that much experience) but it would be helpful to sort out/diagnose small problems or fine tunning it whenever necessary. I may be wrong.
    :blush:

    Regards
    Pedro
     
  25. GagHalfrunt

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    Dammit! Are we Midlanders going to have to fight the Cockney's for something again, just like with Wembley? :eek: :D London it is then :rolleyes:

    I would prefer a central location but are perfectly willing to travel to somewhere accessible (i.e. outside of the M25).

    But ultimately I'll go anywhere for a hobby.
     
  26. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Did someone say Reading? What a great idea! Not far for Roland to travel. You don't want to tire him out before the course. :D

    A list of things you must NOT touch on a CRT would be a good idea for me. :devil:
     
  27. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Ah.....that would be everything

    Gordon;)
     
  28. buns

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    Less than i thought....... then again, £1000 is a fairly expensive toy for only the odd use!


    Another nice idea.......since im a student i know these things......you could draw up a list of thinds to do, as suggested, then write a little book type thingy on it then basically follow the book..... in that place we wouldnt al be forgetting everything! :D

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  29. Boris Blank

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    I must admit, I thought of buying one of these video analysers, using it and then selling it on. A group of us could always chip in and buy one between us I suppose!?

    Anyway, yes I'd be interested in a school. Like Couch P, I'd prefer an after install one too!
    Paul
     
  30. Couch Potato

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    Count me in...... location irrelevant! I would travel and overnight for someting put together by the likes of Gordon/Roland.

    But let's not forget these guys also have a living to make, I would say it needs to focus on the "after install" tweaking we all want/try/crave.

    Steve
     
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