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CRT HDTV's

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by DefAde, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. DefAde

    DefAde
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    HDTV is doing my nut right in !!!

    Since the announcement of HD consoles, DVD's, & even Sky... I've been giving serious consideration to upgrading my beloved Top Spec (5 years ago) Sony widescreen, (real not virtual) Pro Logic

    But the more i look into it, the more downheartend i get!

    Here's my problem...

    I really don't like, LCD, or Plasma, or any of these other "revolutionary" systems,

    They just don't seem to cut the mustard to my eye's.. They look blurry and wishy washy (watching them too long really starts to annoy me and even evoke a feeling of drowsyness and sickness), and seem to be flawed in design in a lot of areas (screen burn, dead pixels classed as acceptable, short life span, blue/grey blacks when viewed in the dark)

    I know right now, alot of you will be up-in-arms.... NOT TRUE you all scream

    But i've had this conversation with others, who have splashed the cash on these items - and i've come to the conclusion, it's me with the problem not you (a classic line) - I seem to just have really sensitive eye-sight (No really, i can spot the tinyest of critters crawling up the wall from my peripheral vision alone - hahahahaha), i put it down to evolution, and playing hi action computers games my entire life (hahahahaha - again) - sad i know!!! But at the same time, i see myself as somewhat of a TV conissuer, i can't help myself, but no matter how many times i go round any friends house and sit and watch TV, i just find myself sitting there secretly "reviewing" their picture quality, and the asthetics, and appearance, etc of the thing... (I'm sure i ain't alone on that one amoungst a forum of A/V fanatics)



    So now you should have guessed, that my main priority for a HDTV is console gaming, close second DVD, and thirdly will probably be Standard Def TV.

    I have no wish, for a mega 50 inch screen, as my room (as are most British lounges/frontrooms) really ain't that big... And i can't say that a slim panal is really that important either (it'd only mean the tv would be a foot or so closer to the wall, and therefor that bit more further away from my viewing position)... In other words, i'm not really all that caught up in this huge hype that's doing the rounds...

    So... in other words... Where on Earth are the CRT HDTV's???????

    We as a public seem to be being forced against our will to buy into this whole flat panal nonsense

    In this very forum, there's a list of HDTV compatible TV's... Yet there isn't even a CRT catagory amongst it - It's just assumed, anyone wanting to upgrade, will automatically wanna buy into this whole "future" image. "oooh look how thin my TV is" (hahaha)

    (I have my own theory that the manufacturers have plundered soooo many billions of pounds [yen] into the development of these panals they have no intention of letting the majority of us replace our standard def sets with cheap and affordable CRT's)


    Why is there NO spanking, uber, gorgeous looking, Sony CRT HDTV, with excellent connectivity... especially when they are going to be releasing the PS3 next year?

    So far i have found one CRT that is classed as HD Ready, but it was so ugly looking (with minimum spec of a couple of SCARTs) i dismissed it straight away


    Sooooo...

    Am i just incredibly poor at searching Google and TV sites? or is there just no plans from any of the decent brands to produce a Hi-Def CRT?????

    Please give me hope people (before i go a buy a pipe and some slippers)

    Many Thanx - Ade :suicide:
     
  2. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    Ade,

    I'm probably in the same situation as you, and recognise everything you say. In particular, I get very frustrated with LCD TVs, all of which look appallling, and I've really tried to give them the benefit of the doubt. Have faith, though, there are some good solutions, but you may need to look laterally or spend some cash (CRT TVs are still the most cost effective ways to get a good picture).

    There are a couple of HD CRTs available in the UK, but you probably won't find them in Currys. There's a Samsung 308 something, and a JVC 36P38. They accept and display 1080i component signals, but don't look too good with SD inputs. Drive either with a scaler or HTPC, and you should get great results. Have a look in the TV forum.

    Don't write off digital displays, though. There are some good 50" high def plasmas and DLP rear projection TVs that CAN give good pictures. It's just that you won't get to see that in the high street.

    Going off the beaten track, had you considered getting a large PC monitor instead of a TV? There are a few NEC and Mitsubishi monitors around at 33" or even 37". They have much better resolution than TVs, and there is great potential.

    Not a domestic solution, but the third best picture I have seen is watching DVD on my PC. That de-interlaces and scales the video up to 1920 x 1200 resolution to display on my 24" CRT monitor. It makes my Sony KV36FS70 look silly. You can get an even better picture if you use a CRT projector, but that needs a dark room.

    If you can wait a while, there will be some very good TVs coming out next year that I guarantee you will be happy with. They won't be small or cheap, but there is a big step improvement in TVs coming soon.

    regards, Nick
     
  3. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Yep - if there was a 32-36" CRT HD-Ready CRT set on sale in the UK a lot of people who care about picture quality would be buying one.

    The latest plasmas are good - but CRTs are often better in many situations.

    There are a few Samsung and JVC 1080i only sets which will accept HD analogue component - but they don't support 720p or HDMI/DVI+HDCP so can't be called HD Ready.

    If the Sky HD box supports fixed 1080i output (i.e. crossconverts 720/50p broadcasts to 1080/50i) this might be OK
     
  4. alan_t

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    think you'll find that CRT will be phased out eventually.
     
  5. Welwynnick

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    Not while all the alternatives give poorer pictures.
     
  6. Starburst

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    Do you actually think the consumers will be given the choice:)

    CRT production is falling like a stone, soon only a few specialist manufacturers or basement/budget supplies will be in the CRT market and just like the move to 16:9 the former product will simply die away.

    It certainly won't be quick but when all the major retailers have wall to wall flat panels (LCD, Plasma, DLP, SED, OLED and who knows what else) is there any room left for CRT with it's wafer thin profit margin:)
     
  7. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Yep - though CRTs are still VERY visible in TV production areas for both HD and SD.

    Sure some monitor stacks are being replaced by projector walls and plasmas, but for quality monitoring, CRTs are still the reference. (They are still used on HD drama shoots...) LCDs are being sold as almost as good - but many don't believe them to be close to that of a decent grade 1 broadcast monitor.

    You won't find many vision and lighting professionals who will trust a plasma or an LCD to assess their pictures on.

    Yes - we may not be given the choice soon - but that doesn't mean the display were are offered will deliver the best pictures...

    Yes it may be thinner, lighter and look more pretty as a thing - but the pictures may not be as good as the heavier, larger, uglier CRT...
     
  8. spidermaxx

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    Hey, just wait untill OLED hits the mainstream, then flat pannels will be so cheap to produce, they'll be able to stick videos on your cornflakes box :eek:

    Best of all, the quallity is ment to be better than LCD and PLASMA too :)

    Do a google search and you'll see what I mean :)
     
  9. AML

    AML
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    SED will be released by Toshiba this year or next. SED technology is based on CRT tech and promises to be the same quality as a CRT but with HD resolutions and conections.

    Im waiting for this to come out before I make another purchase.
     
  10. Welwynnick

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    Yes, I wouldn't be TOOO upset if I had to have an SED instead of a CRT. Better be 1080p, though.

    They will be making a lot of OLED displays, I'm sure, but I think they do not have great life expectancy, and are probably going to take over the portables market.

    Nick :)
     
  11. DefAde

    DefAde
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    Well hey... THANX ALOT for all these replies

    I've no idea where to begin in responding to them...

    I certainly hope we will not be forced into a position of having to buy blurry panals (yes i know they're getting better all the time - but i personally think we are reaching the plateuo [sp] of development and things are gonna slow down from here)

    and totally agree that nothing comes close to a crt

    Whatever happened to consumer choice???

    Audiophiles can still buy Turntables to play their precious vinyl collections - i wonder if some "premium" brand manufacturer will start making crt's for us ... err... Videophiles (is that a term)

    It's really not like i'm asking for the world... Just a decent looking 28-32in Widescreen CRT HDTV with a good choice of connections on the back for getting the best connection from a next gen console (X360 & PS3) and HD-DVD player (prefering Blu-Ray at this point myself)

    BTW - what prompted me to post this topic - is that last week i very nearly bought one of those new sony v40's... but at the last minute (like seriously last minute - the salesman was gutted as i put my debit card back in my wallet) i changed my mind... Simply coz in my heart i was kinda screaming "you know ya don't wanna do this - ya know ya just compromising coz ya feel like the industry has ya over a barrel"
     
  12. DefAde

    DefAde
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    I like the sound of this SED technology (just been having a google at it)

    This does indeed sound like the ideal compromise

    But i find myself wondering about price...
     
  13. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Apparently Sony have almost completely stopped making CRT HDTV monitors for broadcast purposes... A number of broadcasters are stockpiling them...
     
  14. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    I hear you :(

    I love LCD - but I'd like to at least have the option of a Tube based HDTV, even if it was just for comparison.
     
  15. AML

    AML
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    Once LCD and other such new tech reaches "acceptable" quality standards, they will simply replace CRT monitors.

    I recently purchased a 1920X1200 LCD monitor @ 24" and im bloody chuffed with it.
    I cant immagine going back to CRT.

    Once we reach these kinds of resolutions with LCD we really cant tell the difference between LCD and CRT.

    One other good point of LCD are digital conections. Something CRT never had, size is another advantage. Tell me where I can get a 24" (viewable) CRT screen size for less than $1000 and ill buy it right now and dump the LCD.
     
  16. meansizzler

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    Sony FW900 will easily beat your LCD's Image Quality...at $300 it's easily in your Price range...tell you what I'll give you $300 for your Current LCD so you can buy this...no going back on your word right?..

    Link
     
  17. Welwynnick

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    I've got two of them - would you like one? Upscaled DVDs look fantastic.

    It's not just down to resolution, it's the way CRT presents it. I can watch video sitting just ONE screen width away and not be bothered about pixels or artifacts. That would not be possible with any digital display.

    Nick
     
  18. Degas

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    SED will not be mainstream for quite a long time yet, 2 years at least I reckon before it will be affordable and bug free.
     
  19. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Yep - but they don't make 'em any more do they? The only hope is a second hand - model?
     
  20. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Your comment about not being able to tell the difference between CRT and LCD is quite worrying. Even the latest Sony broadcast monitor LCD models are noticably inferior to a CRT broadcast monitor - in colourimetry, gamma, black level and interlace performance. There is also still a noticable difference in motion rendition compared to phosphor decay.

    LCDs are getting better - and their geometry and resolution are impressive. However they are still not as "watchable" when judging picture quality - and require too much processing before the picture reaches your eyes, to allow you to isolate source faults from display artefacts.
     
  21. loz

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  22. AML

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    I havent used a CRT for a long time. Ive beein LCD exclussive for a good 3 or 4 years.

    I honestly cant imagine going back to CRT even if the picture quality is better. As far as im concerned, current high res LCDs are good enough.
    I only use my PC for web and gaming so I dont see the point to change my monitor again.

    Im not saying CRT is a waste of time, just that for many people going back to those larger bulky sets might not be an option if space is a premium. For me it is.

    The next monotor I buy will no doubt be LCD or possibly a newer technology like SED or OLED.

    Im looking for a larger size than what im using too. 30" or so.

    For PC use, 30" is more than enough.
     
  23. supermackem

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    Side to side my lcd tv beat my crt moniter, the lcd pic is just that more alive look. Colours are better also, im not saying your wrong but to completysay crt beats lcd is just being daft there is that many versions or eash tech you could test them all. I have no doubt there will be a hdtv crt out there better than my hdlcd but not in the uk there isnt.
     
  24. Stephen Neal

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    Yep - good LCDs will of course look better than a bad CRT. The point I'm making is that the best CRTs look better - in many aspects - than the current best LCDs. If you are basing your judgements purely on picture quality - then CRTs still outperform in many areas of picture quality.

    They don't outperform in size, weight, geometry (though the expensive CRTs with decent power supply handling outperform most domestic models when it comes to picture content related geometry issues) but in absolute picture quality terms, if you are making quality judgements on an HD drama set, in an HD production studio, or in an HD outside broadcast truck, you would still have a CRT monitor as your first choice - for lighting and colour issues in particular. LCDs just don't reproduce the full broadcast colour range accurately - even with calibration and the new LED backlights. CRTs don't always provide the full broadcast chroma range either - though they are usually better. (Look at a chromaticity chart with the gamuts of LCD and CRT displays compared to the source and you'll see how limited LCDs can be)
     
  25. Welwynnick

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    I don't even think that's true, because you have to qualify an empirical observation with the conditions of the comparison. For any comparison to be valid, all the picture settings have to be normalised so you have the same brightness, gamma, saturation, balence, etc. If you want to compare technologies, then you need a level playing field. There is no point comparing, for example, an expensive high definition progressive scan LCD with a cheap interlaced standard definition CRT, because you would not be comparing like with like. LCD just doesn't cut it; I don't know that it ever will. OLED and SED may be here before LCD and plasma get good enough, and then everything will be obsolete. That doesn't mean nobody should buy LCDs, though, they have their place in the market and lots of people buy them. But lets not pretend that that they buy them for picture quality. I watch films on a Sun 24" W/S 1200p CRT. When someone makes an LCD with a better picture I will sell it.

    Nick :)
     
  26. Stephen Neal

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    Just because you aren't comparing like with like doesn't mean you can't compare though.

    It is acceptable to put a £300 CRT set next to a £30,000 LCD display for comparison - it might not be useful - but it is possible!

    My comment was more that you can get good and bad examples of many types of technology - but in absolute quality terms there is often a winner when you compare the best of both. LCD, in absolute quality terms, doesn't match CRT - when you compare the best examples of both. We agree on that.
     
  27. Sarah Nya

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    I'm quite interested in SED, does anyone have a link to any sites with further information I can't seem to find a great deal on it.

    Also I'm very bored in work and really need a good piece of reading...
     
  28. mjn

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    CRT rules.....lets see some decent CRT HD sets in the UK!!

    LCD, Plasmas all give poor pictures.
     
  29. Nick_UK

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    The bottom line is that hi-def TV is really only great on screens above ~ 27" - 405 line TV looked great on 9" CRT's ! Since CRT's are not made in screen sizes much above 36", then the whole argument becomes academic, because for that we have plasma and DLP technology. Everything looks good on a small screen - HD was designed with big screens in mind.

    What's the point in comparing a technology that's been around for nearly 100 years with one that has been in the public domain for less than 10 years ? I daresay that in another 10 years LCD displays will have been refined even further.
     
  30. Stephen Neal

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    Yep - and if you've seen HD on a 28" or 32" broadcast quality CRT you'll know why we are so disappointed with LCD and Plasmas. The difference is like night and day when comparing a broadcast CRT with a similar sized LCD.

    The point is that at the sizes where CRT and LCD are (or were) comparable - 28", 32" and 34" - CRTs have major advantages over the LCDs available now. LCDs also have advantages - but the plus points are mainly size and weight related, not picture quality.
     

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