Question Crown xls 1002 VS crown xli 800 VS Behringer A-500

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by manmar, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. manmar

    manmar
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    Hi.
    I have a Marantz sr7012, and I am looking for a power Amp to drive the polk signature s55 fronts.
    Which of the following would be the best option?
    Crown xls 1002, crown xli 800 or Behringer A-500
    The Amp will be close to the listening position so fan noise should be minimum.
    Any other suggestions will be appreciated.
    Thanks
     
  2. Rambles

    Rambles
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    The Crown XLS1002 and the Behringer A500 are both silent in operation. I'm not sure about the fans on the xli800.

    The Crown XLS1002 is probably the better buy as it has a higher power output. 2 x 215 watts vs 2 x 120 watts of the Behringer. But if 120 watts is enough then the Behringer at half the price is great value.

    There is a new Behringer model the A800 which is a Class D version of the A500 and more powerful, also looks interesting.
     
  3. manmar

    manmar
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    Thank you rambles. I forgot to mention that the system is used mostly for movies.
    The S55s have a 90 dB sensitivity. Will there be any noticeable hiss with a pa amp?
    The A800 looks interesting indeed... Has anyone test it in a home cinema environment ?
    Thanks
     
  4. Rambles

    Rambles
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    I never had any issues with noise floor hiss with the Crown XLS1002 or the Behringer A500, and I used them with an AVR for home cinema. The Behringer A800 is brand new, I don't think there are any reviews available yet, it seems to be available to pre-order.
     
  5. manmar

    manmar
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    hi again
    i was just about to buy the crown xli 800, but i have been offered a used rotel rkb 2100 power amp
    RKB-2100 for more or less the same price.
    what do you think i should do? should i go with the rotel or the crown? the rotel is 2x100w.
    is that enough to drive the two fronts? (marantz sr7012 amp, polk s55 fronts)
     
  6. MIKEVO

    MIKEVO
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    I would be slightly cautious with regard to the Behringer as the RCA input impedance is low at 10K ohms, which could prove difficult for some preamps.
     
  7. justinhow

    justinhow
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    That is right - even the Crown, which introduced a more sensitive option (0.775v) for the input in their last refresh for the XLS amps, has to be nearly fully up (pot) to match my Denon. Many professional amps have 1.4v inputs which are no good for most consumer preamps/receivers. I am very happy with my Crown XLS 1002.
     
  8. manmar

    manmar
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    Thanks guys.
    So you think that a new crown xls 1002 is a better option than then used rotel rkb 2100?
     
  9. Rambles

    Rambles
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    How does that translate to input sensitivity voltage?
     
  10. MIKEVO

    MIKEVO
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    It doesn't directly, it means the preamp may struggle to provide enough voltage or current, depending on design, into a low impedance Power Amp and may start to roll off the higher frequencies if it struggles.
     
  11. Rambles

    Rambles
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    The OP has stated that he has a Marant SR7012 that he is using as a pre-amp, the D&M AVR's are known to have very generous pre-out voltage (high), so shouldn't be a problem, right?

    However, if you are you referring to the Behringer A500, something doesn't make sense. The RCA inputs, which are rated at 10k ohms are much 'hotter' (louder) than the TRS and XLR inputs which are rated at 20k ohms.
     
  12. manmar

    manmar
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    is it possible to use a 3 channel power amp to drive the FR, C, FL, and let the sr7012 drive all the other channels? (7.2.4 set up).
    in the amp assign menu i only get two options for the power amp: drive the height 2 speakers or the FL/FR. I don't see any options for 3 channel power amps.
     
  13. unreel

    unreel
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    I use a 7 channel Amp with the older SR7010, I'm using the Power Amp to drive my mains, centre and surrounds, the rear speakers and the Atmos 4 speakers are driven from the Marantz. Selecting FL/FR will be freeing up the internal amps that would have powered the fronts for Atmos / ceiling duty. I assume the SR7012 will behave on the same way as my SR7010.
     
  14. MIKEVO

    MIKEVO
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    These are typical specs for a Plinius Intergrated Amp pre-outs, that costs £6500.
    RATED PRE OUT LEVEL

    1.5V RMS into 47k ohms or higher
    PRE OUT SOURCE IMPEDENCE

    Typically 1.5k ohms
    PRE OUT MINIMUM RECOMMENDED LOAD

    47k ohms

    It cannot drive effectively into a 10 K Ohm load.
    This is why professional kit is usually lower in impedance than home AV or Hi Fi as they run higher voltages and you will need a higher voltage into the 20Kohm xlr input than the 10Kohm input to get the same output from the Behringer A500/800.
    Professional Kit run higher voltages than domestic Kit to get round the issue of longer cable runs and induced noise.
    The Marantz can only produce a maximum of 1.2v analog and doesn't say what the minimum load impedance is.
    Thats why pre/processor and Power Amp impedance matching is crucial, otherwise the high frequencies will roll off, especially at high volumes.
     
  15. manmar

    manmar
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    this is a bit too technical for me, i admit...
    practically, does it mean that i have to look for a power amp that matches exactly the 1,2v of the marantz?
    also how do i match the RCA input impedance ? this spec is hard to find...
     
  16. Rambles

    Rambles
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    How much the kit costs is irrelevant.

    It is also irrelevant whether you describe it as professional kit or domestic kit.

    Why do you think the Marantz pre-out voltage is limited to 1.2 volts? It seems that you are relying on reading specifications rather than first hand experience or actual measurements and bench tests.

    You might find this interesting, things are not always as they seem. Denon and Marantz receivers are *rated* at 1.2 volts pre-amp output, but *measure* much higher.

    Denon AVR-X3300W A/V Receiver Measurements and Analysis

    I have used a Denon 4400 and a Marantz SR7011 with a Behringer A500 and had to restrict the input gain using the gain controls as it was too hot on the RCA inputs.
     
  17. Rambles

    Rambles
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    No. The Denon and Marantz AVRs consistently measure as having considerably higher pre-out voltage than the 1.2 volts that are in the specs.

    Don't worry about input impedance, it's a red herring. I would tend to trust this guy:

    Z Review - Behringer A500 Power Amplifier
     
  18. MIKEVO

    MIKEVO
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    Just stick with Hi Fi or Domestic AV amps and you will be fine.:smashin:
     
  19. MIKEVO

    MIKEVO
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    @Rambles, The APx585 and 586 only offer fixed input termination impedances of 100 kΩ (unbalanced) and 200 kΩ (balanced), so are very easy to drive for measurement purposes.
    Thats why the Denon could produce such a high pre-out voltage. Into 10K Ohms it would be a different story. Ideally the Output Impedance of a Pre should be 100 times lower than the input Impedance of the Power Amp.
     
  20. Rambles

    Rambles
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    There are many people that disagree with you, and I am one of many that have had great success in using the Behringer A500 and the Crown XLS range with AVR's in a home cinema set-up. There are many examples of this across the internet on various forums.

    Why do you have the opinion that pro audio amps do not work well in a home cinema environment? The evidence is not there to support your opinion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  21. Rambles

    Rambles
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    I think you have misunderstood the measurement methods used, it is explained here:

    Audioholics Amplifier Measurement Standard
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  22. Rambles

    Rambles
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    Someone here has hands on experience of the Behringer A500, he has bought one and bench tested it, so this gives a truer picture of how it performs than what can be gained by reading the specifications in the back of the manual:

    Google Translate

    And, a 6 year long thread here from people who are using it in a home cinema setting:

    Behringer A500 Amplifier: Objective Test Results
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018

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