Crossover small/large question, sorry

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Hi I've read the brilliant sticky and am fine with my main Denon system for Home Theatre.

My question is re: using my old Denon AVR1912 amp in my music studio to power the monitors and 8" sealed sub.

I'm trying to set it so that I get a high pass filter to my monitor speakers (L&R) and LPF to the sub.

As I'm trying to use it like a normal HiFi amp it means I don't have it connected to a screen so can't really see what's going on, although I'm hoping the display menu gives me the same info and options.

I'm guessing if I put the L&R to small , as with home theatre, it will apply a HPF to the L&R.

But what I don't understand is reading the manual there seems to be no option to set a crossover frequency for the sub and a HPF for the small at the same time.

Do I set the sub as LFE or LFE+main, because there is no video special effects feed for sub, it's simply that I want low frequencies from the music I'm producing to be earmarked for the sub instead.

Then there's an option for "LPF for LFE", well again I don't know if I should be using LFE because this is just for a sound system. And then it gives me options from 80Hz upwards. Am I right to assume the frequency I choose here is just for the LPF to the sub, or will it also at the same time apply the accordingly HPF for the "small" L&R speakers?


There's another option after "channel level" which does say "crossover frequency" - is that the one I should be using instead? This apparently will only show up when I use SMALL and "LFE+main" which is what I think I should be using anyway. As above, is the frequency I set here a dual-action i.e. will it be the LPF cutoff for the sub AND the HPF for the SMALL front speakers?

And so do I ignore the "LPF for LFE" crossover bit?

Sorry about this, I know small/large/sub/crossover Qs are common and irritating and there's a whole thread on it, but as I'm not really using it in its normal sense I am getting confused by its application for my setup and would appreciate any help, which this excellent forum always seems to give! :)
 
The Denon 1912 doesn't have pre-outs so how are you connecting the monitors? As for setting up without a screen couldn't you use a small TV that has HDMI? I would leave the Denon with LFE for the sub and run as stereo. There won't be much difference in high level and LFE for music as the Denon's pre-amp is the weak link for music.
 
The Denon 1912 doesn't have pre-outs so how are you connecting the monitors? As for setting up without a screen couldn't you use a small TV that has HDMI? I would leave the Denon with LFE for the sub and run as stereo. There won't be much difference in high level and LFE for music as the Denon's pre-amp is the weak link for music.
As ever thanks gibbsy :)

My studio monitors are passive (yeah old school I know) so it's just L and R speakers. And of course there's the sub pre-out.

I thought I'd read the stickie but I must've skimmed. It seems to me that whatever the crossover is doesn't just apply LPF to sub pre-out but also HPF to the small speakers at the level I choose is that right? I guess that's the essence of my confusion.

You're right I can put a small TV or monitor with hdmi in or connect it temporarily to one of my computer monitors just to set up. Don't they have all the same options on the display though?

You're saying the Denon 1912 amp is rubbish for music? Tbh all I need is for it to give a flat sound to the monitors. I then have Sonarworks to even it out
 
It seems to me that whatever the crossover is doesn't just apply LPF to sub pre-out but also HPF to the small speakers at the level I choose is that right?
That's correct. The crossover setting in the speaker setup will set both the LPF and HPF. Set the sub as LFE only, the main+LFE will try to direct bass frequencies through your main speakers. The LPF for LFE setting shouldn't matter as your not going to have a LFE channel, but I'd set it to max just incase the Denon is doing something strange here (make sure the LPF on the sub itself is off).
 
With passive speakers I would still use LFE and set up Audyssey and put the speakers are small with what ever crossover Audyssey calibrates. Trying to blend a sub and it's high level crossover can be a pain and take a long time. Some subs are better than others at doing it and probably REL is king of the hill where music and high level connections is concerned.
 
With passive speakers I would still use LFE and set up Audyssey and put the speakers are small with what ever crossover Audyssey calibrates. Trying to blend a sub and it's high level crossover can be a pain and take a long time. Some subs are better than others at doing it and probably REL is king of the hill where music and high level connections is concerned.
Sorry mate I'm being unhelpfully confusing here. I should clarify my monitors (ie left and right) are passive (so the amp provides the power) but the sub is active (receives from sub out and amplifies itself).

Even so you'd say use aidyssey? Yeah I have the mic maybe illy do that then let it set the crossovers itself. Sounds reasonable.
 
That's correct. The crossover setting in the speaker setup will set both the LPF and HPF. Set the sub as LFE only, the main+LFE will try to direct bass frequencies through your main speakers. The LPF for LFE setting shouldn't matter as your not going to have a LFE channel, but I'd set it to max just incase the Denon is doing something strange here (make sure the LPF on the sub itself is off).

This is where I'm confused. Isn't LFE some special effects track ? As I'm not using this as a home theatre but simply to play music surely there'll be no LFE track. The amp is simply receiving RCA inputs from synths, guitars, mics, via sound interface and computer and then outputting for me to hear. It's all just live audio there is no LFE track. So surely if I set it to LFE only as there is no LFE track nothing will get through. Hence thinking it must be LFE +main so the sub is receiving all that music info with LPF applied.
 
LFE represent the .1 in a 5.1 soundtrack and it is part and parcel of the low frequency effects on films. However it is also a useful took for relieving speakers and the amp of the burden of those low frequencies when also listening to stereo sources. Any frequency below the crossover set when using Audyssey will be sent to the sub.

It's the same as using the high level input in that you are letting Audyssey determine the crossover level and it does save a lot of faffing around and with your Denon will do just as good a job. You also have the benefit of Audyssey applying the room correction for both speakers and sub.

Do not use LFE + Main it could very well lead to a boomy bass. With music you want a clean bass line.
 
Isn't LFE some special effects track ? As I'm not using this as a home theatre but simply to play music surely there'll be no LFE track.
That's correct.
So surely if I set it to LFE only as there is no LFE track nothing will get through. Hence thinking it must be LFE +main so the sub is receiving all that music info with LPF applied.
I can see why you'd think that, but it's not the case. As you'll be bass managing your monitors, frequencies below the crossover point will be incorporated into any LFE signal that exists and sent to the sub. The LFE+main setting will also send these frequencies to the sub, but it will also attempt to play them through your monitors at the same time causing multiple acoustic issues.

The only thing Audyssey might be useful for is setting the speaker distances but don't use the crossover frequencies that it sets (Audyssey themselves will tell you that) experimentation is the only way to find the best sounding crossover frequency, REW is brilliant for finding the optimal crossover frequency and setting the subwoofer delay (annoyingly labeled as distance in the Denon) if you have a suitable mic. I definately wouldn't use Audyssey correction in your case, let sonarworks do all that stuff.
 
LFE represent the .1 in a 5.1 soundtrack and it is part and parcel of the low frequency effects on films. However it is also a useful took for relieving speakers and the amp of the burden of those low frequencies when also listening to stereo sources. Any frequency below the crossover set when using Audyssey will be sent to the sub.

It's the same as using the high level input in that you are letting Audyssey determine the crossover level and it does save a lot of faffing around and with your Denon will do just as good a job. You also have the benefit of Audyssey applying the room correction for both speakers and sub.

Do not use LFE + Main it could very well lead to a boomy bass. With music you want a clean bass line.

Ok so to clarify you’re saying LFE mode doesn’t *only* send a movie LFE signal to the sub it also sends anything (eg from analogue IN) under the crossover to the sub.

I guess it’s the ‘help’ I seeked from Denon’s website that confused me then, and still does if I’m honest:

“LFE (Low Frequency Effect) - The discrete content sent to the subwoofer from a Dolby or DTS encoded audio track. (The .1 in a 5.1 or 7.1 audio track)


LFE + Main - The low frequencies output to the Subwoofer whether the speaker channels are set to Large or Small.”


Seems to me that LFE just sends discrete content if it’s there LFE+main setting sends all low frequencies which is what I want. But I think they’re just wording it confusingly
 
Seems to me that LFE just sends discrete content if it’s there LFE+main setting sends all low frequencies which is what I want. But I think they’re just wording it confusingly
It is a little confusing but be assured that as long as you run Audyssey and engage stereo for a 2.1 on the Denon then any frequencies below your set crossover will be sent to the sub. When doing so you must not use direct or pure direct as this will indeed treat your speakers as being full range and not use the sub.
 

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