Crossover and Speaker Settings in Relation to Bass Management

dante01

Distinguished Member
SVS don't ubfortunately include a high level neutrik input so you'd not be able to source the lower end frequencies being sent to the front left and right speakers via the AV receiver'speaker terminals.

Some makes and brands of sub include such an option, but your sub doesn't.
 

supersonic 395

Novice Member
SVS don't ubfortunately include a high level neutrik input so you'd not be able to source the lower end frequencies being sent to the front left and right speakers via the AV receiver'speaker terminals.

Some makes and brands of sub include such an option, but your sub doesn't.

Hmmm okay I see.

To be fair, with the speakers set to small with crossover at 80hz with using the LFE+Main, there's no bass boom or excessive bass - sounds very clear and well controlled (tight). I just experimented by turning down the volume on the sub to see the difference and it really does seem to enhance to low frequency extension as opposed to extra/double bass so maybe it's working well...?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
AS far as I'm aware, you'd still not be able to redirect frequencies to the sub if set to the LFE + MAIN option while the PURE DIRECT mode is engaged. As said, PURE DIRECT bypass the AVR's bass management and it would no longer be in effect while using the PURE DIRECT mode.
 

supersonic 395

Novice Member
AS far as I'm aware, you'd still not be able to redirect frequencies to the sub if set to the LFE + MAIN option while the PURE DIRECT mode is engaged. As said, PURE DIRECT bypass the AVR's bass management and it would no longer be in effect while using the PURE DIRECT mode.

I'm only using Direct and not PURE DIRECT (it has both options).
 

johny1980

Well-known Member
So if pure direct and direct are out of the equation what are the options to get the true source sound? Auto?

All the modes in movie add processing from what I can see?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You'd select the actual incoming source format via the modes menus. This will give you that source sans any additional upmixing. AS long as you aren't in the DIRECT or the PURE DIRECT mode, you should get the format as it was authored, but still be able to apply bass management and room EQ to it.

If you'd rather not have the room EQ processing then turn it off via the Audyssey configurations.
 

supersonic 395

Novice Member
You'd select the actual incoming source format via the modes menus. This will give you that source sans any additional upmixing. AS long as you aren't in the DIRECT or the PURE DIRECT mode, you should get the format as it was authored, but still be able to apply bass management and room EQ to it.

If you'd rather not have the room EQ processing then turn it off via the Audyssey configurations.

Ah so if I select Music (it changes the mode to stereo), it will not apply any processing but will send any frequencies below 80hz to the sub?

Edit: Actually, when I select the Pure button, it changes to either Direct or Auto - when using Auto the sub is engaged - I am guessing this is mode to use to ensure not upmixing/processing while still sending frequencies below 80hz to the sub?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
If you rread the options that are made available to you, one of them will be the actual format the AV receiver is detecting. Select that option and you get the audio without any additional upmixing being appluied to it.

The AUTO option simply selects an upmixing mode to use for you. You are not in the DIRECT mode while using the AUTO option. Upmixing may still be applied depending upon the format of the incoming audio.

The AV receiver's bass management is not in effect while the AVR is set to its DIRECT mode.
 
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supersonic 395

Novice Member
Ig you rread the options that are made available to you, one of them will be the actual format the AV receiver is detecting. Select that option and you get the audio without any additional upmixing being appluied to it.

The AUTO option simply selects an upmixing mode to use for you. You are not in the DIRECT mode while using the AUTO option. Upmixing may still be applied depending upon the format of the incoming audio.

The AV receiver's bass management is not in effect while the AVR is set to its DIRECT mode.

Ah okay cool.

Thank you for your time and help, it's much appreciated 😊
 

johny1980

Well-known Member
If you rread the options that are made available to you, one of them will be the actual format the AV receiver is detecting. Select that option and you get the audio without any additional upmixing being appluied to it.

The AUTO option simply selects an upmixing mode to use for you. You are not in the DIRECT mode while using the AUTO option. Upmixing may still be applied depending upon the format of the incoming audio.

The AV receiver's bass management is not in effect while the AVR is set to its DIRECT mode.
I have a Denon 4500 I can't fathom out how to get the actual format as default as you describe?

Movie, music and game don't appear to have an option like that then there's just pure options (which includes auto but I don't always want the upmixing it sometimes applies)?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Press and hold down the MOVIE button and a menu of options will appear onscreen. One of these options will not be an upmixing mode and will be the actual audio format coming into the AV receiver. Select that option. The AV receiver will continue to select the native format received via that sc=ource until you again actually the setting to something other than the native format.

In the following instance, the native incoming format is DTS-HD Master Audio:
dolby-dts-auro-upmixers-880x320.jpg


The selected option is the native DTS-HD Master Audio with Dolby Surround upmixing being applied. You'd select the option that only includes the native format sans any other oroocessing modes in order to portray that source sans any upmixing.
 
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johny1980

Well-known Member
Fully understand what your saying but there is no native option that appears?

I've looked at the manual to which doesn't suggest there is indeed an option.

The only option that references original format is the Direct setting?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
… but there is no native option that appears?
Oh yes there is. POst an image of the options you are given.

Here's another one:
IMG_0066.JPG


In this instance, the AV receiver is receiving Atmos metadata packaged with TrueHD. The Atmos option would give you Atmos and the Dolby TrueHD would give you 7.1 TrueHD. THe Surround upmixing mentioned alongside the Atmos option is misleading and is in fact nehated seeing as it is surplus to requirements.
 
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johny1980

Well-known Member
Funnilynough a menu doesn't appear onscreen if I hold the button down, I just have to cycle through the options on the av display by single presses of the movie button. But menus come up fine when i press setup or options?

This link below doesn't show anything refering to native?

 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You've already been informed not to engage the DIRECT mode. I'm assuming you are still in this mode if unable to get the menu onscreen. Disengage the DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode. Press and hold down the MOVIE button until an onscreen menu appears.

I never indicated that the word "native" would be present in the list. The native format will be included in the list of options. Native formats are formats such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital, DTS, DTS:X, Atmos, DTS-HD Master Audio, PCM etc.
 

supersonic 395

Novice Member
You've already been informed not to engage the DIRECT mode. I'm assuming you are still in this mode if unable to get the menu onscreen. Disengage the DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode. Press and hold down the MOVIE button until an onscreen menu appears.

I never indicated that the word "native" would be present in the list. The native format will be included in the list of options. Native formats are formats such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital, DTS, DTS:X, Atmos, DTS-HD Master Audio, PCM etc.

What option should I be seeing if streaming 2 channel audio by Bluetooth?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You'd select the STEREO option in such circustances, but beware that if select this option relative to a multichannel source then the AV receiver will mix down any additional channels present into the front left and right stereo channels. The AV receiver cannot however access multichannel audio via Bluetooth so you can be assured that that source is only ever 2 channel stereo in nature.

by default 2021-02-23 at 22.00.11.png



 

johny1980

Well-known Member
You've already been informed not to engage the DIRECT mode. I'm assuming you are still in this mode if unable to get the menu onscreen. Disengage the DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode. Press and hold down the MOVIE button until an onscreen menu appears.

I never indicated that the word "native" would be present in the list. The native format will be included in the list of options. Native formats are formats such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital, DTS, DTS:X, Atmos, DTS-HD Master Audio, PCM etc.
Ah I think I've got you now!

I wasn't in pure/direct, I was cycling through the movie presets 👍

I though there was a specific option that would match it automatically to the source for you but you have to set/match it yourself if I now understand correctly? In inclined to leave it on auto considering that tbh and live with the upmixing when relevant.

Still doesn't explain why I'm not getting the options on screen but I'm not that fussed on that 🤷‍♂️
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
AUTO will to some degree try to partner the incoming source with what it assumes is the most appropriate mode, but this will not negate the AV receiver from selecting upmixing modes to use on content that isn't either Atmos or DTS:X in nature. It basically makes the AV receiver apply proprietary Dolby Surround Upmixing to Dolby encoded sources while using Neural:X upmixing in association with DTS sources that aren't DTS:X in nature.

AUTO cannot read minds and simpy follows the guidelines Denon layed down for it to abide by.

AUTO
In this mode, the type of digital signal input, such as Dolby Digital, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Atmos, DTS, DTS-HD, DTS:X, DTS-ES, PCM (multi-channel) is detected, and the playback mode switches automatically to the corresponding mode.
If the input signal is analog or PCM (2-channel), stereo playback is used. For Dolby Digital or DTS, the music is played back according to the respective channel number.
 

johny1980

Well-known Member
AUTO will to some degree try to partner the incoming source with what it assumes is the most appropriate mode, but this will not negate the AV receiver from selecting upmixing modes to use on content that isn't either Atmos or DTS:X in nature. It basically makes the AV receiver apply proprietary Dolby Surround Upmixing to Dolby encoded sources while using Neural:X upmixing in association with DTS sources that aren't DTS:X in nature.

AUTO cannot read minds and simpy follows the guidelines Denon layed down for it to abide by.

AUTO
In this mode, the type of digital signal input, such as Dolby Digital, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Atmos, DTS, DTS-HD, DTS:X, DTS-ES, PCM (multi-channel) is detected, and the playback mode switches automatically to the corresponding mode.
If the input signal is analog or PCM (2-channel), stereo playback is used. For Dolby Digital or DTS, the music is played back according to the respective channel number.
Yep, I'm only particular about what's outputting when I'm listening in Atmos or music so upmixing outside that I'm not to bothered about tbh.

What specifically do you miss out on in direct mode (not pure direct) in regards to audessey?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
All room EQ correction and the Dynamic Audyssey options are bypassed. Nothing but the bare bones essential processing is engaged by the AV receiver.
 

johny1980

Well-known Member
All room EQ correction and the Dynamic Audyssey options are bypassed. Nothing but the bare bones essential processing is engaged by the AV receiver.

🤦‍♂️You learn something new everyday, I've been using direct for years on a simple 5.1.2 with upfiring atmos setup without issue in a smallish room.

But, I've moved house recently and upgraded to a 5.1.4 system with ceiling speakers.

My main seating position is just off centre and I wasn't to taken with it 'centralising' my position or the Atmos experience considering.

Now I know why,

I'm gonna have to re-run the calibration as I've been fiddling to much with levels!

Thanks for the input Dante 👍
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Speaker levels and distance settings are still in effect while using the DIRECT mode. These are in effect regardless of the mode you engage.
 

johny1980

Well-known Member
Speaker levels and distance settings are still in effect while using the DIRECT mode. These are in effect regardless of the mode you engage.

Yep but I've changed the levels cause I thought something was off and can't remember what they where originally.

Ive never had dynamic eq enabled so might give it a go to. It quite a large room so doubtful whether I will prefer it.
 

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