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Create 'Gapless' with I Tunes ?

C

cwmbrancon

Guest
Hi,

I have just bought an ipod Nano for my girlfriend and am astounded to find that it won't support 'gapless playing'.

I have a Sony HD3 and have numerous continuous play albums.

This is something I couldn't do without.

My girlfriend would not need this as much, but there are a few albums that would require it.

I can record them as MP3's but this seems a bit silly.

I have heard of something in in itunes that lets you 'join' tracks.

Can I record a 'gapless' album using this method ?

Any help greatly appreciated.
 

Chris_J_0907

Active Member
If you import a CD, highlight the tracks first, select join tracks and then import it will import the CD as one continuous track iirc. So no skipping will be available.
 
S

shadowritten

Guest
Just a shame that almost no DAPs support cue sheets, really - then there's be no need for the gapless argument at all ... ho hum!
 

IanPM

Active Member
shadowritten said:
Just a shame that almost no DAPs support cue sheets, really - then there's be no need for the gapless argument at all ... ho hum!

Yes, thats true, but you'd still need to rip as one long track. That may not suit everyone.
 
S

shadowritten

Guest
IanPM said:
Yes, thats true, but you'd still need to rip as one long track. That may not suit everyone.

Even so, you can skip back and forth with cue sheets, so no harm done :smashin:
 

IanPM

Active Member
shadowritten said:
Even so, you can skip back and forth with cue sheets, so no harm done :smashin:

That is indeed true, and I can't really think of a reason it would be a problem. Lots of advnatages too.

Shame no one does.

Why can't anyone make a perfect MP3 player?
 
C

cwmbrancon

Guest
Thanks for the replies.

Looks like I should be okay then.

Bit of a pain though.
 
S

Sasso

Guest
IanPM said:
Why can't anyone make a perfect MP3 player?

Thats what I would like to know. The wrong people must be in charge, it appears people only care about making money not making a decent product. If everyone put full effort into their products then the whole world would be better. Take for example the car Mclaren F1 with the BMW engine, its said to be the best car in the world (its always the fastest car in video games too), basically they did not compromise one single bit, i think they even gold plated the engine bay or something because it was the best material to use. They didn't actually make any money but as a result they created a masterpiece. I'm not saying people should go around making things without profit, but there is like a trade off between how much it costs to make something and how good it is. It seems Sony were trying to make the unit as cheap as possible to make as much money as they could but it backfired when the player was crappy and they didn't sell as many anyway, so it defeated their purpose. Now imagine if they spent more time and money into making the ultimate player, then more people would want it and they would in the end make more money. Like ferrari too, they make decent cars and so they can charge more for it, and they make money, I know most people can't afford a ferrari but most people could afford a slightly more expensive music player if it was far better than the rest and suited their needs perfectly.

Apparently Sony are dumping the MiniDisk, well in Aust anyway, now what are people going to use to record things? I think they should put all of the recording features on the HD models, optical line in (line out too), mic in etc...


Anyway, it may seem off topic but really its all the same, Apple don't make gapless because of whatever reason, it probably costs a bit so they compromise, joining tracks and making one big track is NOT a solution to lack of gapless playback, its a nasty compromise that will not sell and is not acceptable. Apple dont have much to do to make a decent player so lets hope they approach it with a will to be perfect and not just to be greedy and make money.
 
S

shadowritten

Guest
Sasso, two things:

Sony cut corners less to make a profit, more to try and catch-up with/arrest the advance of the iPod. Now, it seems, with the new Walkmans, they're aiming to ape Apple's success by paying more attention to the box than to the technical innards.

The iPod is a triumph of style over substance. Apple made it look good first, then put some so-so guts in it. What keeps it at the top? The software - including iTunes. This is Apple's strong point; whereas Sony's is hardware.

Now, am I the only one who thinks the two firms should hold hands and play nicely?
 

johann1979

Banned
IanPM said:
Yes, thats true, but you'd still need to rip as one long track. That may not suit everyone.

By ripping everything as one continuous track you pretty much turn your 'lovely' Nano into an old-fashioned, 1980's tape walkman again....wait...just gotto forward the tape till about half way through - aah... that should do it...a little bit forwards... a little bit backwards... nice

My advice? Take it back and get something that can do the job properly!
 

johann1979

Banned
Sasso said:
Anyway, it may seem off topic but really its all the same, Apple don't make gapless because of whatever reason, it probably costs a bit so they compromise, joining tracks and making one big track is NOT a solution to lack of gapless playback, its a nasty compromise that will not sell and is not acceptable. Apple dont have much to do to make a decent player so lets hope they approach it with a will to be perfect and not just to be greedy and make money.

No Sasso - don't forget, Apple has more than enough time and money to design pointless and absolutely worthless gimmicks like pausing automatically when it detects the headphones have been pulled out of the socket (and let's get some perspective here, which really is most important between gapless playback or pausing automatically when you pull the cord out? - in my life I don't think I have pulled the headphones out even ONCE)... but nearly 5 generations of iPods later they STILL have not addressed the gapless playback issue. Can you imagine how many people must have written to them in the last 4 - 5 years about the issue??

Until they listen to their customers (like Sony for instance - and yes, it took nearly 4 months to have the HD5 fixed but people have been petitioning Apple for 4 years to 'fix' the iPod) I will keep my two fingers raised at Apple and take every chance I am given to slag them off...
 
S

Sasso

Guest
johann1979 said:
No Sasso - don't forget, Apple has more than enough time and money to design pointless and absolutely worthless gimmicks like pausing automatically when it detects the headphones have been pulled out of the socket (and let's get some perspective here, which really is most important between gapless playback or pausing automatically when you pull the cord out? - in my life I don't think I have pulled the headphones out even ONCE)... but nearly 5 generations of iPods later they STILL have not addressed the gapless playback issue. Can you imagine how many people must have written to them in the last 4 - 5 years about the issue??

Until they listen to their customers (like Sony for instance - and yes, it took nearly 4 months to have the HD5 fixed but people have been petitioning Apple for 4 years to 'fix' the iPod) I will keep my two fingers raised at Apple and take every chance I am given to slag them off...

I wouldn't compare Gapless with the pausing feature. To get it to pause when the headphone is pulled out is probably a 2 second job. But gapless is a different story. There is probably a special technique or hardware required to do it, and Sony are probably one of the few that can do it without sucking out the battery heaps or costing money or compromising something. So apple with their already crap battery will need to find a way to (power and cost) efficiently have gapless before they put it in. If it is so easy to do gapless, they would have had it by now.

Don't forget, you may not pull the chord out, but you want gapless, someone else might keep pulling the chord out and not want gapless. I have told so many people about what gapless playback is and what they think about the lack of it these days, every single person said they couldnt care less about gapless. So i would say not many people are perfectionists like us, we want quality music, they dont care. There are more clumsy people that pull out their chords than people that want gapless, and majority wins, unfortunately in this case.


Shadow isnt it the other way around? Cutting corners more means they make money but do a bad job and less means they are doing the right thing to make a better player. I wouldn't call good software like Itunes (and firmware) style, they are substance, surely they look good but they actually work too, wish we could say that for the Sony entries.
 
S

Sasso

Guest
Oh and with the HD5, yes it has gapless but its as if they use it as an excuse to make the rest of it crap, Ipod has the rest good but doesnt have gapless. Just have to wait for 5th gens, i hope apple have figured this gapless stuff out.
 
S

shadowritten

Guest
I think we're wandering off topic Sasso. I'll consider what you've said and post any reply I might have in the General DAP Chat thread instead ...
 
S

shadowritten

Guest
Sasso said:
its all about gapless, its all good.

At the risk of perpetuating this slightly off topic subject, this thread is technically about creating gapless tracks using iTunes.

But hey, let's not fight ;)
 
S

Sasso

Guest
well the answer was already posted so this thread was probably going to fall to the bottom anyway, better make it use of it while its here, and the joy of digital communication - pretty much unlimited writing space.
 

johann1979

Banned
Sasso said:
I wouldn't compare Gapless with the pausing feature. To get it to pause when the headphone is pulled out is probably a 2 second job. But gapless is a different story. There is probably a special technique or hardware required to do it, and Sony are probably one of the few that can do it without sucking out the battery heaps or costing money or compromising something. So apple with their already crap battery will need to find a way to (power and cost) efficiently have gapless before they put it in. If it is so easy to do gapless, they would have had it by now.

Don't forget, you may not pull the chord out, but you want gapless, someone else might keep pulling the chord out and not want gapless. I have told so many people about what gapless playback is and what they think about the lack of it these days, every single person said they couldnt care less about gapless. So i would say not many people are perfectionists like us, we want quality music, they dont care. There are more clumsy people that pull out their chords than people that want gapless, and majority wins, unfortunately in this case.


Shadow isnt it the other way around? Cutting corners more means they make money but do a bad job and less means they are doing the right thing to make a better player. I wouldn't call good software like Itunes (and firmware) style, they are substance, surely they look good but they actually work too, wish we could say that for the Sony entries.

No, it is all in the firmware. Sony's Vaio Pocket was released and it left terribly long gaps between tracks - after a few people complained Sony released new firmware for the player and the problem was solved. It could play mp3's perfectly gaplessly after that!

Remember, in order for the players not to skip it has to buffer the next track or two - there is no reason why the problem can't be fixed with a firmware upgrade!

P.S. In my experience it's the other way round. There are many more cd's in this world that need to be played without any gaps than bimbo's that tug their cords out searching for their lippy...
 

andrewf

Active Member
I have a Rio Carbon - anyone know how to make this gapless? I have lots of dance style CD's so gapless matters a lot to me

Cheers
 
S

Sasso

Guest
johann1979 said:
No, it is all in the firmware. Sony's Vaio Pocket was released and it left terribly long gaps between tracks - after a few people complained Sony released new firmware for the player and the problem was solved. It could play mp3's perfectly gaplessly after that!

Remember, in order for the players not to skip it has to buffer the next track or two - there is no reason why the problem can't be fixed with a firmware upgrade!

P.S. In my experience it's the other way round. There are many more cd's in this world that need to be played without any gaps than bimbo's that tug their cords out searching for their lippy...

Not necessarily all in the firmware, the vaio may have already got the right hardware in it.
They are more likely to just put it in a new player though.

There maybe many more CDs that need gapless, but its those bimbos that own the CDs and don't care.
I agree I don't pull the chord out either, but thats partly thanks to sony's L shaped plug.
 
S

Sasso

Guest
andrewf said:
I have a Rio Carbon - anyone know how to make this gapless? I have lots of dance style CD's so gapless matters a lot to me

Cheers

If you have the reciept you can, just kidding, not sure but check their websites for any updates maybe, then email them asking for one.
 
M

mick's cat

Guest
johann1979 said:
No, it is all in the firmware.
Yes, and no actually. Interestingly (for Mac users who prefer gapless playback), there is a software answer, that utilizes the mp4 (ie, AAC) ability to have chapters within a single Podcast.

The software - Audiobinder - makes use of Apple's Podcast Chapter Tool (hence this is a Mac-only method) to convert multiple mp4 (ie, AAC) songs into a single podcast with chapters for each separate track. So, a complete album is effectively a single song, but steppable through each individual chapter (ie, track) on the iPod (or within iTunes).

I'm not sure, but I see no reason why such a song created on a Mac couldn't be used on a Windows computer for use in iTunes and iPods.

Audiobinder is here:

http://homepage.mac.com/vaughn/audiobinder/
 

johann1979

Banned
Sasso said:
Not necessarily all in the firmware, the vaio may have already got the right hardware in it.
They are more likely to just put it in a new player though.

There maybe many more CDs that need gapless, but its those bimbos that own the CDs and don't care.
I agree I don't pull the chord out either, but thats partly thanks to sony's L shaped plug.

Trust me Sasso - it is in the firmware. All these players have similar chips, same HD's etc. The iPod has 32MB RAM buffer - with average bitrate encoded mp3's that shoud be no problem - have a look here --> http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20040423065341833

Anyway - they are just plain lazy over at Apple Towers...
 
S

Sasso

Guest
I thought gapless required a double buffer or something.

If it is purely firmware then your last statement it very true, though we can't exactly say that sony arn't lazy.
 
B

Beethovenian

Guest
Sasso may have some reason if you consider that Apple is not alone in not offering gapless playback. It must be more difficult than it seems. But Johann has plenty of reason to say they're still lazy. After all, it's been what, five years?, since the iPod was launched. Five generations is more than enough time for them to address the issue, especially when the Sony players and the Rio Karma are there and can be reverse engineered. There's simply no excuse for them. And I'm sure that many of those "I don't care about gapless" would say they couldn't do without it if the iPod finally had it.
 

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