Could there be something wrong with my tv?

PeterC

Standard Member
I've had my Samsung C7000 for nearly a year now and tbh from the moment I got it I thought there might be something wrong with it but never bothered to check.

Basically the picture quality wasn't that great.. before hand I had an old 32" Sharp LCD HD tv which is about five years old and actually produced what looked like a better looking picture.

I dismissed it and thought maybe I expected too much from the picture quality but yesterday I went to my local comet to pick up my new monitor and decided to look at the TV section and tbh I was BLOWN AWAY by the picture quality of just about every TV there.. the picture was so much more life like and better than my C7000.

Now I understand they probably use the best possible stuff to showcase their TV but I have a ps3 and my blu rays in 1080p clearly don't look as good as the stuff I seen at Comet. Does this sound like a problem with my TV? Is it worth calling an engineer out to have a look at it? I did get the TV refurbished from amazon so I guess it could have had a problem that they didn't realize.
 

Jason Shouler

Active Member
The biggest problem I'm aware of the C7000 was really terrible blacks (which will certainly degrade picture quality) but I wouldn't expect you to notice the difference in fairly bright surroundings (such as a store).

TBH, in a bright room, I thought the picture was excellent.
 

PeterC

Standard Member
Have you compared the quality to that what you see in electric stores? For me there seems to be a big difference in picture quality. The blacks certainly were better with the outline of everything in Tangled really looking great and the colours seemed better too.
 

Jason Shouler

Active Member
I returned mine long ago so can't compare now.

It's easy to check for bad black levels - just watch with the lights off - mine was close to unwatchable as everyhing was made up of washed out greys :thumbsdow
 

PeterC

Standard Member
Could it have been a fault unit? I've never had problems with my black levels and I regularly watch stuff in dark rooms. However I am fairly certain now something is wrong with my tv. I hooked up my new samsung lcd pc monitor to my ps3 and the picture quality is quite a bit better than on my plasma tv.. surely that shouldn't be the case? What could be wrong with the tv though to cause such a strange problem?
 

Jason Shouler

Active Member
Could it have been a fault unit?
That's always possible although it was a commonly reported issue on this Forum at the time.

I've linked to a Full HD testcard in one of the other Samsung threads which should help you identify what's exactly wrong with the image.
 

PeterC

Standard Member
That's always possible although it was a commonly reported issue on this Forum at the time.

I've linked to a Full HD testcard in one of the other Samsung threads which should help you identify what's exactly wrong with the image.

Do you remember which thread? How does it work exactly?
 

deblee

Active Member
I returned mine long ago so can't compare now.

It's easy to check for bad black levels - just watch with the lights off - mine was close to unwatchable as everyhing was made up of washed out greys :thumbsdow

Jason you sure the black levels were that bad on yours, reviews suggest different?
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Samsung-C7000-PS50C7000-3dtv-3d-tv-plasma-review.html
I see you have an LG lcd now and the blacks are supposed to be poor on those, how do they compare when the lights are down?
 

Jason Shouler

Active Member
Jason you sure the black levels were that bad on yours, reviews suggest different?
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Samsung-C7000-PS50C7000-3dtv-3d-tv-plasma-review.html
I see you have an LG lcd now and the blacks are supposed to be poor on those, how do they compare when the lights are down?
It was a no contest walkover by the LG LD950 and believe me I was surprised as everything I'd read said plasma provides the best blacks.

I've recently started using a back-light and tend to watch many films in complete darkness although one drawback to this is the difficulty in using remotes that aren't illuminated because it's a major pain if you hit the wrong button :facepalm:

Black borders (if there are any) actually look black most of the time and tend to merge with the black bezel of the set itself :thumbsup:

One thing I really hated about the Samsung plasma, aside from the grey blacks, was that it was unable to display a black border and instead displayed a ghastly grey border almost bright enough to read a book from :rolleyes: (and I don't think ANY black-light would help that)

As said before, the image quality of the Samsung in good ambient light was very good so I don't think the set was faulty. My set also outperforms the black levels on my mates LG plasma (fairly old model though) so doesn't look like a one off.

That said, if anyone asked what could be improved on my set then I'd still give the same answer as I probably would for many other sets.

"better black levels" :devil: ;)
 
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deblee

Active Member
It was a no contest walkover by the LG LD950 and believe me I was surprised as everything I'd read said plasma provides the best blacks.

I've recently started using a back-light and tend to watch many films in complete darkness although one drawback to this is the difficulty in using remotes that aren't illuminated because it's a major pain if you hit the wrong button :facepalm:

Black borders (if there are any) actually look black most of the time and tend to merge with the black bezel of the set itself :thumbsup:

One thing I really hated about the Samsung plasma, aside from the grey blacks, was that it was unable to display a black border and instead displayed a ghastly grey border almost bright enough to read a book from :rolleyes: (and I don't think ANY black-light would help that)

As said before, the image quality of the Samsung in good ambient light was very good so I don't think the set was faulty. My set also outperforms the black levels on my mates LG plasma (fairly old model though) so doesn't look like a one off.

That said, if anyone asked what could be improved on my set then I'd still give the same answer as I probably would for many other sets too.

"better black levels" :devil: ;)

Thanks Jason that is quite an eye opener, one thing I always assumed was the blacks would just be better on plasma (especially regarding LG as both their Plasma and LCD models are not known for good black levels)
I take it that even using a backlight when a dark scene or all black image appears then the blacks are still grey though?
On my ST30 the blacks are pretty black in these conditions, turn out all the lights and although the black bars are black on most content (even without backlighting) when a dark scene or all black screen is on then its still grey (quite disappointing tbh)
We can but hope for better black levels I guess:rolleyes:
Would love to compare a Kuro in the same environment, although some owners suggest that even the mighty Kuro displays as grey (obviously a darker grey but grey nonetheless)
 
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Jason Shouler

Active Member
I take it that even using a backlight when a dark scene or all black image appears then the blacks are still grey though?
I would say it depends on the source video encoding. For a long time now I've realized the very best blacks seem to originate from lower quality video rather than blu-rays as you might intuitively assume (I've no idea why).

On some films the scenes changes are just wonderful as the screen plunges to a deep black (even with the lights out) but on others it's far less satisfying as the blacks are really just a dark grey :( Why some films are like this but others aren't is a complete mystery to me :confused:

One thing I have learnt since moving on from a CRT (my last TV before the Samsung) is not to be afraid of playing with the picture controls. I'm really not bothered about crushed shadow detail as long as I can't see any washed out greys so I'll normally adjust the brightness at least once during a film (with usual complaints from others viewing as that means switching out of 3D :devil:)

One area the LD950 scores on heavily is when viewing in light conditions since the highly reflective back screen imbues all blacks with that richness unique to such a screen type (it outperformed the Samsung in this area too)

Of course that doesn't change the fact that some of us just like watching in the dark :)
 

deblee

Active Member
I would say it depends on the source video encoding. For a long time now I've realized the very best blacks seem to originate from lower quality video rather than blu-rays as you might intuitively assume (I've no idea why).

On some films the scenes changes are just wonderful as the screen plunges to a deep black (even with the lights out) but on others it's far less satisfying as the blacks are really just a dark grey :( Why some films are like this but others aren't is a complete mystery to me :confused:

Of course that doesn't change the fact that some of us just like watching in the dark :)

See I just don't get this, my ST30 (supposed to have very deep black levels) doesn't ever go deep black with all lights out, its only dark grey.
Maybe there is something wrong with my set!
Lights out & then I change to a blank input and its a dark grey screen, after some time for the eyes to adjust its just grey, even on the Kuro its is meant to be like this, what is your lcd like?
 

Jason Shouler

Active Member
See I just don't get this, my ST30 (supposed to have very deep black levels) doesn't ever go deep black with all lights out, its only dark grey.
Maybe there is something wrong with my set!
Lights out & then I change to a blank input and its a dark grey screen, after some time for the eyes to adjust its just grey, even on the Kuro its is meant to be like this, what is your lcd like?
I'm confused too now as I've always assumed blacks on a Panasonic plasma are as good as they come (hell, I've even suggested people should buy one if they want great blacks :eek:).

I remember, just before taking the plunge with my LD950, that I'd keep visiting the curry's store trying to gauge its black levels but I was really just guessing (ever tried asking a large store to turn all their light off :D). It was therefore a huge relief once I'd got it home to find it was better than the plasma.

As I've said, a typical scene change can push down the blacks to black (like the set is turned off) but it is very much film dependant and with some material the black background is clearly not black at all - which suggests to me different video levels get encoded at some point.

Please keep in mind a few points though:

  1. I use a back-light (I could not watch in darkness without it)
  2. I run the set at 50% energy saving for 3D viewing.
  3. I've customized profiles to produce what I consider to be good black levels.
I presume you have similar options for your Panny ?
 

deblee

Active Member
I have but tbh with backlighting I don't have the issue its only in a room without lighting that I notice this.
Odd though as you say when you say your blacks are like the screen is off because at no point does the Panny have this level of black (except when using Dynamic picture mode as this does shut off during blank scenes)
Does your LG have some form of shutting off the screen maybe & this is what you are seeing?

Just comparing reviews and your LG seems to only get a "good" rating for both contrast/dynamic range and black level whereas the C7000 got excellent for both, so I'm assuming its either our eyes see things differently or there was a problem with the C7000
LG LD950 (47LD950) Review | AVForums.com - UK Online
Not having a go here but if the blacks would be as good as your describing I would probably opt for an lcd over a plasma especially with having the 3d passive option
Trouble is hard to test both in the same room
 
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Jason Shouler

Active Member
I have but tbh with backlighting I don't have the issue its only in a room without lighting that I notice this.
Sorry, I may have misled you for when I say watching in darkness I mean:

ALL the room lights off but back-light still ON.

My backlight has variable brightness and I find setting this is quite imporant for the best 'blacks' (you don't want it too bright or too dim).
 

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