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Could my speakers have a fault??

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by GFS AV, Apr 23, 2005.

  1. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    Hi folks, just been having a serious listen to my new amp. Whilst I am very impressed with the sound quality, I have noticed a worrying harshness i've not heard before.

    On certain high pitched sounds, mainly vocals, I sometimes hear a sort of harsh vibration/buzzing from the speakers (tweeters I think). The bass and mid is fine. To hear this you have to listen very closely. It is not really noticeable unless you concentrate very hard on what you're listening to. I am wondering whether i've only just noticed it because I have a new amp and I have been thoroughly concentrating on the sound quality, paying attention to detail. Maybe this harshness has always been there but i've never noticed? In a review on the speakers, I read they can be quite bright/harsh sounding at times, but I cant say i've noticed it before. The speakers are only about 8 months old.

    The question is, is it possible for your speakers to have a slight fault of this kind, or is it a case of working or not working?

    Can anyone please help? Thanks.
     
  2. JBL 4645

    JBL 4645
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    GFS AV :hiya:

    What type of AVR do you run and the name of the loudspeakers all in the sound chain including the centre…and what type of films have you been playing since you first installed the loudspeakers etc…

    Because it sounds like the a lose wire going from the passive crossover to the HF or worse the voice coil as been way overloaded with some evil film with some high frequency boost at around 8KHz that as burned the voice coil slightly… :oops: the cost of repairing it is not to costly and if you where to take it to the shop where you purchased it from and if still under warranty leave to them… :)

    If that’s not the case you can fix speaker with repair kits on the internet…and fix this by your self and it’s not total rocket science…I my self repaired one of many loudspeakers that I have the edge foam surround had given up the ghost so I replaced it with rubber edge surround and it’s all working 100% … :smashin:

    The same thing can be done with the HF by replacing the diaphragm…I’ll send the post the details of one manufacturer that does a whole lot… :thumbsup:

    http://www.simplyspeakers.com/index.htm

    Ashley…
     
  3. alexs2

    alexs2
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    You need to first of all work out if simply one,or more/all of your speakers exhibit the same problem.
    It's extremely unlikely that all would be damaged in some way,and more likely that you are finding them to be a bit harsh as you've noted from reviews.

    If it is only one,then damage to the tweeter is a possibility,and with your speakers being less than 8 months old,I would take it back to your dealer under warranty.

    You could also drop Tons of Fun a line here,as he works in the Tech Support end of Mordaunt Short,and will no doubt give you a decent bit of help and advice.
     
  4. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    Thanks guys,

    The amp I have been using is the Yamaha 640SE. This is definately not too powerful for the speakers. The speakers a recommended up to 130W RMS, and the amp is only rated at 85WPC. I do watch a variety of demanding action films, and listen to all kinds of music.

    It is only since I connected my new Musical Fidelity X80 amp that I have noticed the problem. The sound quality from this amp is excellent. Far better than the Yamaha as you would expect from a £600 stereo amp. I have definately not over powered the speakers. the X80 is only 40W RMS! And I have not listened too loud either. I cant understand this as my speakers are only about 8 mths old and never abused. I use the X80 for the fronts, and leave the rears and centre for the Yamaha at the moment. Please see below for my full setup.

    Thanks for the advice.
     
  5. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Hi there...I did see the system...I think our friend JBL didnt bother!

    I'd doubt the problem is as a result of you caning the speakers too hard given what you've said,but certainly changing to a better amp can highlight some of the tendencies in other parts of a system.

    My advice would as before,be to give Tons of Fun a Pm here,and ask his opinion and advice,as one of Mordaunt Short's technical staff...he's always given sensible advice,and I'm sure he will try to help with this.
     
  6. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    Thanks a lot alexs2,

    i've contacted Tons, hopefully I can get this sorted out soon. I was just thinking the other day, when I hooked up my new amp, that my system has come a long way in just a year. And now this! :(

    It could well be just that the new amp is far superior, and is showing up the speakers weak points... as you suggested i'm gonna try connecting my rears up and see if they are the same, then I might try using the Yamaha again with the 906 fronts. In a way i'm hoping the 902s will sound the same - at least then ill know the 906s are not faulty.

    The Musical Fidelity X80 really is a cracking amp, and even though i'm using my Sony DVD player for CDs, the improvement seems huge. The best part is it only cost me £230 delivered! Even if i'd paid the normal price of £600, i'd have been happy. The matching CD player would be nice :D

    thanks again.
     
  7. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    well... shocking results after my switch around. Just tried the 902s at the front, and the same harsh buzzing sound happens. I very much doubt that the front and rears are damaged.

    Another surprising thing is the difference in sound quality between the stand-mount 902 and the floorstanding 906. This is the first time I have listened to the 902s in stereo. I know there is a huge price difference, but I simply thought the extra money went on the extra mid-bass driver and cabinet size. I initially thought the 902s would deliver a fairly similar high frequency quality, as the drivers and tweeters are the same, but I have to say that in comparision to the 906, the overall sound of the 902 is inferior.

    Anyway, i've came to the conclusion that this harshness is simply a consistent minor point throughout the range. Its not that these speakers are bad quality, quite the opposite - they are excellent speakers IMO. I think it's simply the fact that my new amp reveals every little detail of the speakers.

    Please remember that this sound does only occur on certain parts of songs. If there is a lot going on at one time i.e. plenty of midrange and/or bass as well as treble, the harshness is not noticable at all. This is probably another reason I have never noticed it - I mainly use the system for DVDs, and it's not very often you get a very basic series of high frequency sound.

    I'd be very interested to hear views of other Mordaunt-Short speaker owners on this matter, therefore could a moderator please edit the thread title to Harsh Sounding Mordaunt-Shorts
     
  8. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    If you can, it would be worth tightening up all of the retaining screws on the speaker (around the drivers plus any on the back panel) but be careful not to strip the thread.

    Do you get the same problem still if you disconnect the MF amp from the loop again? It could be that the problem lies within the MF amp or simply that the MF amp is so good that it's revealing a weakness in the speakers. :)
     
  9. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    thanks.
    I am fairly convinced this is the situation. I highly doubt there is a problem with the amp. It performs so well throughout the frequency range. I can't recommend this amp enough. I am still gobsmacked at the quality. If I could describe the amp in one word it would be 'intelligent'. the reason being that it seems as soon as the amp receives the signal from the source, it knows exactly what to do with it, and does it immediately without any delay whatsoever. The speed and accuracy is phenomenal throughout the range.

    About the screws, there are'nt any screws on the outside of the driver. To be honest though, the speakers are built very well and I doubt this could reduce the vibration.

    Any more comments welcome - thanks
     
  10. Tejstar

    Tejstar
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    If everything is screwed in properly I doubt there is any problem with your speakers, as everyone has said before, it’s more likely a shortfall with the speaker. Have you tried different source material; it may affect some types of music more than others?

    As you know I’ve purchased the same stereo amp (although haven’t set it up yet) I’ll let you know if I experience anything similar once it’s set up!
     
  11. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    I very much doubt you'll have a similar experience with your new Castle Durham 3s
     
  12. davehk

    davehk
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    Just a point - you are far more likely to damage the tweeters in your peakers by running an UNDERpowered amp than with an over powered one. This is because, in an effort to get more volume, you may drive the amp into clipping. This causes a huge increase in high frequency level, thus putting much more of the amps power into the tweeter which could cause damage.

    It's actually preferable to have an amp with an RMS contuous rating that is TWICE that of the speakers continuous rating, less or euqal to it.
     
  13. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    thanks for that.

    Although quoted at around 40WRMS, that MF amp is VERY powerful. It seems much more powerful than the Yamaha amp. There has been no sign of distortion at all.
     
  14. Tejstar

    Tejstar
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    I hope not but you never know :(
     
  15. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    ok, here's an update.

    Had a PM reply from Mordaunt-Short's Acoustic Engineer, who claims that it is most likely that the amp is faulty. I personally think this is nonsense. The amp works perfectly and sounds excellent. As I have said, this harshness is ever so slight and quiet, and only happens on certain material. I have listened to one of Sting's albums since, and have not noticed it once.

    I have spoken to a few dealers today for advice. A few people have said it is most likely the source. They think the Sony DVD player could be the reason, and that a decent CD player should eliminate any nastiness.

    Obviously my plan is to get myself a nice CD player to match the rest of my system, but at the moment I cant afford it! I think i'll get myself a cheap 2nd hand model, something like my previous Marantz CD63, from eBay, and see if this eliminates this harshness. This will obviously give me the answer.

    I have also been advised to give the amp time to run in thoroughly, and then have another serious listen - it may just need to settle in properly.

    I will keep y'all posted on any further results.
     
  16. socrates1

    socrates1
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    Do you mind if I ask where you got the X80 delivered from. I'm in Ireland and I've tried searching a few websites and googling without success. Hope it all gets sorted out for you. Thanks.
     
  17. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    I bought mine from eBay. It may be difficult to come across one now though, I think they're selling quick. There are a couple of places online, but I think you have buy them in-store.
     
  18. alexs2

    alexs2
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    That being the case,is there any possibility of a friendly dealer letting you try a decent CD player,and seeing if this is the origin of the problem,prior to laying out money on a CD player as well.

    The CD63 would certainly be a good used choice,and has a very smooth sound overall for a player in its price range.
     
  19. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    I used to have a CD63, for about 10 years actually - for some STUPID reason I decided to get rid, along with my Arcam amp and Acoustic energy stand-mounters :eek: Must have been skint I guess :( .

    Anyway, I spoke to Musical Fidelity today, and they don't seem to think the source would make a difference. He seems to think the Sony DVD player is fine, though obviously a dedicated CD player will be far better. He doesnt think the source is causing the harshness. Mind you, I will definately be upgrading in the next couple of months.

    It is apparently most likely to be a bad CD recording. I eliminated this from the equasion before, as I have always been very happy with the quality of 'Seal' productions. I suppose it could be a one off poor recording. I simply have never noticed it before as I have never owned high-end equipment. Audiophile gear shows up any bad recording badly.

    When I have time, i'm going to switch back to the Yamaha amp, listen hard on the particular track, and see if the harshness is still there.

    Any more thoughts folks??
     

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