Correspondence with LG

Dodgexander

Moderator
Look guys, we have been through this before. No more spiteful posts, if you don't agree with something there's a report button. Please just report and don't reply or try to get one over other users.

I don't want this to turn in to some kind of who has the last say fight again.

@aoaaron there's little value to be found spending so much anyway. You are probably best sticking with your trusty DX902 or going with a larger LCD instead.

As you creep up the size ladder OLEDs become worse value for money compared to similarly sized LCD TVs.

At 55" it's not unreasonable now to pick up an OLED for near £1000 whilst the Samsung 55Q85R is £1200.

At 65" you are looking at a similar prices, £1500/1600 for both

At the large sizes you pay twice the price for an OLED. It's ridiculous.

It's clear, at least to me that larger OLEDs are too expensive, it will change with time probably, but I wouldn't consider ever paying so much.
 

Atomicus

Active Member
Look guys, we have been through this before. No more spiteful posts, if you don't agree with something there's a report button. Please just report and don't reply or try to get one over other users.

I don't want this to turn in to some kind of who has the last say fight again.

@aoaaron there's little value to be found spending so much anyway. You are probably best sticking with your trusty DX902 or going with a larger LCD instead.

As you creep up the size ladder OLEDs become worse value for money compared to similarly sized LCD TVs.

At 55" it's not unreasonable now to pick up an OLED for near £1000 whilst the Samsung 55Q85R is £1200.

At 65" you are looking at a similar prices, £1500/1600 for both

At the large sizes you pay twice the price for an OLED. It's ridiculous.

It's clear, at least to me that larger OLEDs are too expensive, it will change with time probably, but I wouldn't consider ever paying so much.

If something over 65" is desired then... i.e 75"+, what would you say the most sensible purchase is? £6K for a 77" OLED is ridiculous in light of what the 65" costs, but at least with OLED you're getting something pretty special, and with LG's C9, you get HDMI 2.1 in the mix. Paying a similar amount for LCD is even more insane given you still get blooming at the top end, and many don't even have HDMI 2.1. Some cheaper 82"-85" options from Samsung/Sony I know, but they have their limitations and no HDMI 2.1 either on those.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Look guys, we have been through this before. No more spiteful posts, if you don't agree with something there's a report button. Please just report and don't reply or try to get one over other users.

I don't want this to turn in to some kind of who has the last say fight again.

@aoaaron there's little value to be found spending so much anyway. You are probably best sticking with your trusty DX902 or going with a larger LCD instead.

As you creep up the size ladder OLEDs become worse value for money compared to similarly sized LCD TVs.

At 55" it's not unreasonable now to pick up an OLED for near £1000 whilst the Samsung 55Q85R is £1200.

At 65" you are looking at a similar prices, £1500/1600 for both

At the large sizes you pay twice the price for an OLED. It's ridiculous.

It's clear, at least to me that larger OLEDs are too expensive, it will change with time probably, but I wouldn't consider ever paying so much.


Sadly since getting a projector, my 65 inch 902b now feels pathetic in impact :(

Maybe the smart thing is to wait and see if oleds hit 3.5k at Costco?

I wish Panasonic still did a fald. I’m not a fan of Samsung’s offerings (game mode pq gimped, weird feature set, increased brightness in hdr etc)
 

Escalibran

Member
It's clear from their basic terms:
c) Misuse, including failure to use the product for its normal purposes or incorrect installation.
I think you'd have to try extremely hard to lose a court case arguing that using an unmodified TV to watch TV in one of the manufacturer-provided modes (literally any, including HDR) is "normal purpose"
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I think you'd have to try extremely hard to lose a court case arguing that using an unmodified TV to watch TV in one of the manufacturer-provided modes (literally any, including HDR) is "normal purpose"

I agree. I think it’s just quite obvious the warranty is dodgy and would be great if there was clear legal clarification to set a precedent.
 
D

Deleted member 171211

Guest
I agree. I think it’s just quite obvious the warranty is dodgy and would be great if there was clear legal clarification to set a precedent.

There is. Taximania's win is well documented on these forums. Whether a single case would be sufficient precedent, I do not know.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
I think you'd have to try extremely hard to lose a court case arguing that using an unmodified TV to watch TV in one of the manufacturer-provided modes (literally any, including HDR) is "normal purpose"
Which is why I suggested you should take LG to court. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the warranty where I can tell you now, LG will regard burn in as misuse.

I said it in my last post and I'll say it again, whether you (or anyone else for that matter) agree with this or not is another matter. We are here to discuss warranty terms.

I'm getting sick of going round in circles with it to be honest, it is what it is whether you like or not, it has been this way since the Plasma era and LGs take on it now won't be any different to how it was with their Plasma TVs in the past...suck it up or let it go. Don't constantly make a fight in your head guys.

Live with the terms of move on and by an LCD, if you want to go on a crusade in the name of law, or take LG to court, by all means do so, but its discussion for somewhere else and not a thread to discuss warranty terms.

In fact, if you had an LCD TV with burn in, you'd still get warranty rejected (unless you register for Samsung's 10 year warranty that is).
If something over 65" is desired then... i.e 75"+, what would you say the most sensible purchase is? £6K for a 77" OLED is ridiculous in light of what the 65" costs, but at least with OLED you're getting something pretty special, and with LG's C9, you get HDMI 2.1 in the mix. Paying a similar amount for LCD is even more insane given you still get blooming at the top end, and many don't even have HDMI 2.1. Some cheaper 82"-85" options from Samsung/Sony I know, but they have their limitations and no HDMI 2.1 either on those.
HDMI 2.1 is a two bit feature to most people, if you are a PC gamer it carries more worth compared to Samsung's since you will be able to push out 120fps with VRR in the future, for console gamers the limitation that the Samsung LCDs carry with VRR running at 4k and 60hz is likely going to be good enough for the next gen consoles that are likely going to still be limited to 30-60fps frame rates.

The only time I can see HDMI 2.1 VRR (eg full 120hz with VRR) is going to be beneficial is for low framerate compensation and that is something that will only be needed with consoles if they retain to have titles that run less than 30fps..unlikely.

Paying a similar amount for an LCD is stupid, but you don't pay a similar amount, you can get the Q85R or even Q90R for a lot lot less.

If HDMI 2.1 is imperative, perhaps for other reasons, it's just the wrong time to buy a 75"/77" TV right now and it's best to either
1. Push your luck and wait for a nice discount on the larger OLEDs on the premise they will get a price cut when the 2020 models hit the shop
or
2. Wait for it to be more common with LCD TVs in 2020 lines and swoop for one of those instead come black friday.

Patience is key to get a good deal, the lowest I've seen a 77" OLED was GBP4.5k, maybe this year if we are lucky we see 3.5k, then it starts to look a lot more lucrative.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Which is why I suggested you should take LG to court. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the warranty where I can tell you now, LG will regard burn in as misuse.

I said it in my last post and I'll say it again, whether you (or anyone else for that matter) agree with this or not is another matter. We are here to discuss warranty terms.

I'm getting sick of going round in circles with it to be honest, it is what it is whether you like or not, it has been this way since the Plasma era and LGs take on it now won't be any different to how it was with their Plasma TVs in the past...suck it up or let it go. Don't constantly make a fight in your head guys.

Live with the terms of move on and by an LCD, if you want to go on a crusade in the name of law, or take LG to court, by all means do so, but its discussion for somewhere else and not a thread to discuss warranty terms.

In fact, if you had an LCD TV with burn in, you'd still get warranty rejected (unless you register for Samsung's 10 year warranty that is).

HDMI 2.1 is a two bit feature to most people, if you are a PC gamer it carries more worth compared to Samsung's since you will be able to push out 120fps with VRR in the future, for console gamers the limitation that the Samsung LCDs carry with VRR running at 4k and 60hz is likely going to be good enough for the next gen consoles that are likely going to still be limited to 30-60fps frame rates.

The only time I can see HDMI 2.1 VRR (eg full 120hz with VRR) is going to be beneficial is for low framerate compensation and that is something that will only be needed with consoles if they retain to have titles that run less than 30fps..unlikely.

Paying a similar amount for an LCD is stupid, but you don't pay a similar amount, you can get the Q85R or even Q90R for a lot lot less.

If HDMI 2.1 is imperative, perhaps for other reasons, it's just the wrong time to buy a 75"/77" TV right now and it's best to either
1. Push your luck and wait for a nice discount on the larger OLEDs on the premise they will get a price cut when the 2020 models hit the shop
or
2. Wait for it to be more common with LCD TVs in 2020 lines and swoop for one of those instead come black friday.

Patience is key to get a good deal, the lowest I've seen a 77" OLED was GBP4.5k, maybe this year if we are lucky we see 3.5k, then it starts to look a lot more lucrative.


You've opened my eyes to the possibility that the 77'' OLED isn't for me value wise. I was under the impressing the LG OLED 77'' C8 bottomed out at 3.5k last year. If it didn't, I'd say 4.5k might be too muhc money to pay given the reliability issues.

Sadly I do own an Nvidia PC and the main draw is HDMI 2.1 and the VRR.

Do you know of any 2020 models which are going to be supporting HDMI 2.1/VRR/Gsync? I feel like LG really have smashed it in that corner of the market.

Sadly feature wise with the new consoles, it would be a lot more reassuring if all the manufactuers has followed LG's lead and offered full HDMI 2.1, low input lag, gsync compatible displays but alas, they've decided to do strange things like Sony's focus on sound through the screen and Samsung.. well doing Samsung.

The lack of Dolby Vision support on the Samsung TVs is a big bummer for me.

I'll have to keep a close eye as after 65 inches I can't help but agree with you that the price gets ridiculous for OLED TVs. A 65'' C9 seems to be the best high end value TV set and I wouldn't take an LCD over it.

However a 75'' FALD or a 65'' C9 is a bit of a different proposition.


Part of me wishes I never bought a projector as its really made my TV feel tiny for everything. I've moved my sofa to the middle of the room lol.

My other soluton is to buy a new projector but I'm unsure if it will really upgrade the PQ and black levels significantly. I'm already quite pleased with the picture but the black level can always be better and I find that games really don't translate well on the PJ screen. I'm not sure if thats because they are crazy contrast to look good and photorealistic or if its because the projector I have (HW40) is a 1080p projector and I need a 4k/1440p resolution.
 

staffy 2

Well-known Member
I can’t believe Peter Tyson said LG give a 5 year warranty.They use Domestic and General as they sorted my new panel in minutes with no hassle or pictures needed.To be honest the engineer said he’s fixing so many OLEDs and he knows they flawed technology and he wouldn’t touch one.
Im of the opinion that most engineer visits would result in a new panel being fitted.Id say 90% of tv engineers would just say yep your panels faulty no matter the issue as they are aware of the rubbish warranty regarding burn in so they are quite sympathetic.The more tvs they repair the more money they make 😜
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I can’t believe Peter Tyson said LG give a 5 year warranty.They use Domestic and General as they sorted my new panel in minutes with no hassle or pictures needed.To be honest the engineer said he’s fixing so many OLEDs and he knows they flawed technology and he wouldn’t touch one.
Im of the opinion that most engineer visits would result in a new panel being fitted.Id say 90% of tv engineers would just say yep your panels faulty no matter the issue as they are aware of the rubbish warranty regarding burn in so they are quite sympathetic.The more tvs they repair the more money they make 😜


shadey but at least they responded to the email.

Thats a really good point.. if the engineer is on your side, you're sorted.

Having contacted Domestic & General, they said they don't cover it so it just looks like you have to be lucky with your engineer.
 

staffy 2

Well-known Member
Yes but don’t state burn in.To get an engineer visit say your seeing banding in content.Its worth a try and I’d say 8 out 10 people would get the engineer on side and have a new panel fitted.It seems we have to be as creative with truth as LG are with there crap warranty.
Why won’t anyone cover burn in as they could make a killing as everyone on here would pay for the cover.If it’s so insignificant they’d make a lot of money.Truth is they know more than us and LG know this aswell.
TCL said they now plan to bring there top end 2020 Mini LED to the U.K. towards the last quarter of the year.Ive seen quite a few good reports about them so fingers crossed.
 

Atomicus

Active Member
You've opened my eyes to the possibility that the 77'' OLED isn't for me value wise. I was under the impressing the LG OLED 77'' C8 bottomed out at 3.5k last year. If it didn't, I'd say 4.5k might be too muhc money to pay given the reliability issues.

Sadly I do own an Nvidia PC and the main draw is HDMI 2.1 and the VRR.

Do you know of any 2020 models which are going to be supporting HDMI 2.1/VRR/Gsync? I feel like LG really have smashed it in that corner of the market.

Sadly feature wise with the new consoles, it would be a lot more reassuring if all the manufactuers has followed LG's lead and offered full HDMI 2.1, low input lag, gsync compatible displays but alas, they've decided to do strange things like Sony's focus on sound through the screen and Samsung.. well doing Samsung.

The lack of Dolby Vision support on the Samsung TVs is a big bummer for me.

I'll have to keep a close eye as after 65 inches I can't help but agree with you that the price gets ridiculous for OLED TVs. A 65'' C9 seems to be the best high end value TV set and I wouldn't take an LCD over it.

However a 75'' FALD or a 65'' C9 is a bit of a different proposition.

Part of me wishes I never bought a projector as its really made my TV feel tiny for everything. I've moved my sofa to the middle of the room lol.

My other soluton is to buy a new projector but I'm unsure if it will really upgrade the PQ and black levels significantly. I'm already quite pleased with the picture but the black level can always be better and I find that games really don't translate well on the PJ screen. I'm not sure if thats because they are crazy contrast to look good and photorealistic or if its because the projector I have (HW40) is a 1080p projector and I need a 4k/1440p resolution.

I'm in an identical situation to you, and the promise of VRR G-Sync support on LG's OLEDs is a big lure... having experienced it on my 55" B9, I know it would be my preference on bigger scale... even if it were available on a lesser LCD.

I don't think any of the current or upcoming HDMI 2.1 LCD TV's will function via PC with G-Sync/Freesync though. I believe it's technically possible, but it's a feature that needs to be enabled.

For this reason, it could be that it's literally ONLY the 2019/2020 LG OLED's which will viable for the foreseeable future as PC gaming screens, but I am not sure. I don't know if next gen GPUs will change anything, or this VRR over HDMI functionality that Nvidia support now. Again, I believe this is down to manufacturer's, and currently, LG are the only ones who even seem to be aware PC gamers exist!

I may be wrong on all this, I really don't know... my B9 OLED is the only TV I have experience with in this regard. I'm not sure if there are other TV's which are recognised via the Nvidia control panel as being G-Sync compatible, even if not officially (as any Freesync monitor is).

I've never experienced projector gaming, and the potential for a 100" screen in my space is tempting, but the lack of VRR and 60Hz lock makes me question how much I'd actually enjoy it. I feel that projector tech advancement has virtually stalled also... I doubt we'll ever see a VRR capable 4K 120Hz+ projector.

Projectors seem to be a fine solution for occasional gaming though, and local multi-player, but for extended single player sessions, I think a dedicated monitor or TV would be preferable for most people. Seems that may be how you feel about it?

I'm in no urgent rush, so I'll keep an eye on the 77", as that was top of my wish list... but the current price is definitely way too much IMO.

:confused:
 
Last edited:

Dodgexander

Moderator
They use Domestic and General
Which is the service you can buy if you purchase extended warranty from LG.

@aoaaron I don't know what is happening with HDMI 2.1 yet but my guess is Nvidia will be the limiting factor (I am too an Nvidia owner) with G sync. The only TVs they have certified for G Sync over HDMI is the LG OLEDs and I presume that is because they know the TVs have full HDMI 2.1 ports and are simply utilizing HDMI 2.1 VRR.

It's not clear if they will ever work with Samsung to get VRR working on their current HDMI 2.0 models. The tech is there if they decide too, but its limited only to 60hz.

You're gonna just have to be patient I'm afraid, these things take time. Current GPU hardware can only do VRR at 60hz anyway, which only works on the LGs. Hopefully the new generation cards support the full 120hz refresh rate.

So in the interim that's a couple of more reasons to wait, both because of new GPUs and TVs and HDMI 2.1 chipsets.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Which is the service you can buy if you purchase extended warranty from LG.

@aoaaron I don't know what is happening with HDMI 2.1 yet but my guess is Nvidia will be the limiting factor (I am too an Nvidia owner) with G sync. The only TVs they have certified for G Sync over HDMI is the LG OLEDs and I presume that is because they know the TVs have full HDMI 2.1 ports and are simply utilizing HDMI 2.1 VRR.

It's not clear if they will ever work with Samsung to get VRR working on their current HDMI 2.0 models. The tech is there if they decide too, but its limited only to 60hz.

You're gonna just have to be patient I'm afraid, these things take time. Current GPU hardware can only do VRR at 60hz anyway, which only works on the LGs. Hopefully the new generation cards support the full 120hz refresh rate.

So in the interim that's a couple of more reasons to wait, both because of new GPUs and TVs and HDMI 2.1 chipsets.


Yeah. You're really not wrong in that this is probably THE time to wait in regards to buying a TV with the imminent release of the next gen consoles and the new HDMI 2.1 standard.

My parents are going to be buying a new TV around March time so I have the chance for a very cheeky upgrade as I can give them my 902B and get a new TV set.

If I can get a cut price deal on a 77inch LG OLED, I'll go with it. Otherwise I might just settle for a 65'' although it would kill me to pay money and not have an upgrade in screen size as the 902B's PQ isn't exactly bad at all.

I thought Samsung's new TVs will have full fat HDMI 2.1 ports (the ones they showed at CES). Sony's lineup looked crazy confusing too and they mentioned adding some features for some TVs via firmware updates... Hopefully we get more clarity in spring time when they do the proper formal releases.

I'm assuming LG & Nvidia have a very tight money incentivised relationship. Then again, Samsung are no strangers to submitted their monitors to Nvidia as they did it with their G9. Either there is some form of barrier or difficulty or Samsung TV department is very out of touch with the gaming side of things compared to LG.
 

Atomicus

Active Member
I thought Samsung's new TVs will have full fat HDMI 2.1 ports (the ones they showed at CES). Sony's lineup looked crazy confusing too and they mentioned adding some features for some TVs via firmware updates... Hopefully we get more clarity in spring time when they do the proper formal releases.

I'm assuming LG & Nvidia have a very tight money incentivised relationship. Then again, Samsung are no strangers to submitted their monitors to Nvidia as they did it with their G9. Either there is some form of barrier or difficulty or Samsung TV department is very out of touch with the gaming side of things compared to LG.

The Samsung 2020 8K models will have full fat HDMI 2.1, but hey need it for 8K though, so no reason for them to adopt VRR support. It's possible, but as mentioned, it would need to be enabled via software.

Their TV department don't seem to care in regards to having their 2019 models work with VRR over HDMI, even though they could... so I guess only time will tell. You'd think they might look at what LG are doing and see the opportunity (more so given how much positive press LG are getting off the back of that move), but then Samsung also ignore Dolby Vision so who knows what's going in their heads!?

I don't think their monitor and TV departments are aligned at all.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Also I think my next step is probably going to be contacting Trading Standards / Citizen's Advice.

I'm going to explain the act situation. In that I'm making a decent financial outlay for an expensive TV but not getting clarifications on how it would work if a commonly reported fault occurs in regards to repair/warranty purposes with conflicting reports from manufacturer and the retailers which have replied.

I'll also mention the Taixmania case and that its already been squashed.

I'm pretty much a prevention rather than cure person and would rather prevent myself having go through the anxiety by having written reassurance and agreement prior to purchase.

I'll be really interested to see how this pans out.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Yeah the new Samsung's will like the 8k models with their single 2.1 port upgrades.

On that topic, you could go for a Q900R :D

But there's no guarantee Nvidia will ever certify that TV or the 2020 models..the only good thing about this is 1. AMD are now rivalling them so they should attempt to get compatibility faster than if they weren't. 2. You'll need a new GPU for 120hz at 4k anyway, so if it doesn't work out you can always buy an AMD one which will definitely work with any HDMI 2.1 device...and will probably work with the existing Samsung models with VRR too.

If I were you I'd try and stop your parents upgrading so fast and If they do, suggest a stop gap for them (or for you) and keep that in mean time. Things should be a lot clearer a year from now.
 

staffy 2

Well-known Member
Dodgexandner the Domestic and General warranty for 5 years was free with my E7 and every retailer includes 5 year warranty.My tv was £1400 on Black Friday.
Its brand new again with a new screen.No questions asked or photos needed.An engineer came and said it was faulty and took my E7 with him and was back 5 days later so can’t fault there service.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Dodgexandner the Domestic and General warranty for 5 years was free with my E7 and every retailer includes 5 year warranty.My tv was £1400 on Black Friday.
Its brand new again with a new screen.No questions asked or photos needed.An engineer came and said it was faulty and took my E7 with him and was back 5 days later so can’t fault there service.
Good to hear. Its possible they are the warranty provider from most retailers I guess. If you had burn in I hope you aren't the exception to the rule and the same is shown to other people too.

The first year is always with LG btw. The remaining years (in your case 4) are handled by the third party.

From the posts I've read on here people have been able to successfully make warranty claims based on issues other than burn in. Whether you would get away with this if your TV doesn't have noticeable screen uniformity issues other than burn in I'm not sure.

To look at it from their point of view if the TV is being returned for a different fault and they regard (in your case screen uniformity) to be at fault then they are required to honour the warranty.

If however you are in the unfortunate position like many users of LCDs have been, and you buy from a retailer who tries their best to deny your TVs screen uniformity is in spec..or you have burn in with no other problems then I can see warranty being rejected.

As people have been saying for years it really matters where you buy your TV. Not just the warranty terms or provider, but the shop customer service.
 

devlino

Well-known Member
Posted in another section but I got this from Panasonic, my argument would be this isn't plasma,
IMG_20200131_183108.jpg
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I might shoot a few emails in a couple of months time but in all honesty, I think a 77'' OLED isn't worth £5999. Therefore I'll only hold interest in pursuing legal clarification if the OLED comes down to a palatable price point as most people don't seem arsed and ultimately this doesn't help me at all lol.
 

iangreasby

Distinguished Member
I would agree that some retailers are better than others when it comes to potential issues with burn in. Touch wood, I have had no problems with my B8, now almost 12 months old. I am very careful and always watch SDR content in ISF night mode and never watch stuff like Sky Sports News, I am not a gamer. I did raise the subject with Richer Sounds when I bought it. I was told that, provided there was no obvious evidence of misuse, they would likely settle any claim in my favour. I know this is not a cast-iron guarantee by by any means, but I am inclined to trust them based on reputation and my previous dealings with them.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I would agree that some retailers are better than others when it comes to potential issues with burn in. Touch wood, I have had no problems with my B8, now almost 12 months old. I am very careful and always watch SDR content in ISF night mode and never watch stuff like Sky Sports News, I am not a gamer. I did raise the subject with Richer Sounds when I bought it. I was told that, provided there was no obvious evidence of misuse, they would likely settle any claim in my favour. I know this is not a cast-iron guarantee by by any means, but I am inclined to trust them based on reputation and my previous dealings with them.


If they'd be willing to put that in writing and define what would be mis-use, i'd easily buy from them if thats the case.

If its just words, I couldn't care less sadly :(
 

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