Coronavirus talk - are people going over the top?

Do I know the answer to that. No.


Still pretty sure I know the answer as both successive Tory and Labour governments have treated the NHS as a political football and done little to help other than throw occasional money at a lost cause.

It's a basket case and needs total reform.
It's wasteful, overly full of "management", pays top-dollar for everything when It's the largest UK purchaser and money is spent in the entirely wrong places.



As above, what did Blair, the Messiah, do for the NHS?

I'm not a fan of Blair. Even so:

 
The worst thing I have witnesses about all of this is how the media have acted like absolute idiots, they are spreading fear and misinformation everywhere and should be totally ashamed one rag in mind is the Daily Mail, they are changing headlines at lightning speed just for clickbait I wish they were suspended for a week because of the dross they print, terrible behaviour. 🤬

And other outlets are just as bad.

Rant/Over
 
The worst thing I have witnesses about all of this is how the media have acted like absolute idiots, they are spreading fear and misinformation everywhere and should be totally ashamed one rag in mind is the Daily Mail, they are changing headlines at lightning speed just for clickbait I wish they were suspended for a week because of the dross they print, terrible behaviour. 🤬

And other outlets are just as bad.

Rant/Over

The Daily Heil = Filth
 
Two people in one room, I don't need a lot of imagination to think of some exercise ;) :D
Yep eastern european girlfriend, I'm sure we've managed the equivalent of a daily marathon.
:rotfl:

Personally I think this virus has been around for 6 months, testing will reveal more accurate information on the timescales and spread. This why I believe the hysteria is too late, it's here, and people arguing over whether to drive to a spot to run or not is a futile argument.

What this situation has and is revealing, is the soft underbelly of peoples strength of character.
It's not like we're on jam and bread is it.
 
What this situation has and is revealing, is the soft underbelly of peoples strength of character.
It's not like we're on jam and bread is it.

It's also revealing the underbelly of this administation.

Stay at Home, Save the NHS, Save Lives

Truth is it's actually about save the NHS at all costs. 3 months into their term Boris would not want to be the Conservative party that forever destroyed the NHS.

The fiscal and monetary policies they have announced is most unlike any Conservative approach imaginable.

They've now had to plunge this country into economic ruin. Definitely no jam tomorrow for a long while.
 
The Tory Government has been undermining the NHS for years
And Labour saddled it with PFI.



Any more on the Toorreess?
 
They've now had to plunge this country into economic ruin

Bet the Labour party will love it since it won't be their fault this time:rotfl:
 
Bet the Labour party will love it since it won't be their fault this time:rotfl:

There will always be political point scoring to come out of it but unfortunately for Labour they're stuck with the fact their cost models never added up to begin with.

As with any bout of turmoil there is also hay to be made. If you're in the ventilator, pharma or supermarket game then it's happy days.
 
The tests are not the holy grail. They're only about 70% reliable between the early stages of the disease when we actually would want to know if someones positive or not.

Its a step in the right direction but it doesn't compensate for mass-isolation and lockdown. We still have logistical issues with tests, reporting etc. Alongside the age-old issue with the British public which is compliance.

There have been plenty of cases of patient's testing negative but having bilateral chest infiltrates and all the pathogonomic signs of COVID-19 (normal WCC, low lymphocyte count, high CRP, symptoms)
 
Well you could sink the entire GDP of this country into the NHS and still come up short.

In fact we've gone far beyond that already and sunk the economy for many generations to come.

There's no cure for this other than good old immune system. Sitting at home just delays the inevitable. Test option is the best we got.

If you want a ventilator, meds and food....then someone somewhere has to go to work
 
Well you could sink the entire GDP of this country into the NHS and still come up short.

In fact we've gone far beyond that already and sunk the economy for many generations to come.

There's no cure for this other than good old immune system. Sitting at home just delays the inevitable. Test option is the best we got.


Re: the NHS, I can't help but feel that its long term solution would have lay in privatisation. Sadly the service is abused to the hilt and as long as its free, it will always come up short.

Sitting at home saves lives which would otherwise pass away because we wouldn't be able to treat them if we don't have a bed in hospital. Slowing down the spread of the disease is key to this.

Testing is an extremely useful tool in mapping out the spread, areas which are hit hard, knowing numbers to calculate mortality/morbidity rates better, get NHS workers back to work more promptly.. but its still not the holy grail. And the 70% sensitivity/specificity during days 4 to 10 is also a major pain in the ass as it will encourage a false negative person to go out and spread the disease.
 
It's also revealing the underbelly of this administation.

Stay at Home, Save the NHS, Save Lives

Truth is it's actually about save the NHS at all costs. 3 months into their term Boris would not want to be the Conservative party that forever destroyed the NHS.

The fiscal and monetary policies they have announced is most unlike any Conservative approach imaginable.

They've now had to plunge this country into economic ruin. Definitely no jam tomorrow for a long while.
Hmm I'm not quite as pessimistic as yourself. Opportunities will reopen once the dust has settled.
For example orders are still flying in at the company my girlfriend works for, things are just on hold for a while. I think we're making an assumption that individuals will actually make a claim for the government fiscal loans. For example, making funds available in june means the government is banking on the virus being under control by then.

However non essential lifestyle businesses will fail. The travel industry will downsize, and the pub, club hospitality sector needed a shake up anyway. People have been turning their backs on large chain eateries for a while. Pubs are old hat and need a rethink.
It will also highlight to companies who has the right aptitude and show up which employees fall under the law of diminishing returns.
People need to refocus on what's important which is family and stop being so individual, entitled and selfish.
We literally did have jam and bread for dinner when growing up in the 80's.
 
Re: the NHS, I can't help but feel that its long term solution would have lay in privatisation. Sadly the service is abused to the hilt and as long as its free, it will always come up short.

Sitting at home saves lives which would otherwise pass away because we wouldn't be able to treat them if we don't have a bed in hospital. Slowing down the spread of the disease is key to this.

Testing is an extremely useful tool in mapping out the spread, areas which are hit hard, knowing numbers to calculate mortality/morbidity rates better, get NHS workers back to work more promptly.. but its still not the holy grail. And the 70% sensitivity/specificity during days 4 to 10 is also a major pain in the ass as it will encourage a false negative person to go out and spread the disease.

Actually testing is far more important than just that. It let's us evaluate how many people have already had it and how many actually need to be isolated. It provides us with a crucial and critical path to segmentation.

If the herd is already large enough then nature has provided or is already providing a shield. Natural immunity can in turn curtail the spread of this thing. That really is the best we have got.

If not then you have to identify the infected and isolate them.

Slowing down the spread of it just buys you a better chance of getting a bed at a hospital right now. It's not a cure and it's not going to save you. There isn't a cure.

If your time is up, it's up, no matter what. A ventilator might buy you more time but it's not a cure. Doctors and nurses are also dying right now.

Mass isolation is no long term answer either, it's a knee jerk mass panic reaction. After all who is going to make you all the equipment and tests etc etc that are so desperately needed ?
 
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Actually testing is far more important than just that. It let's us evaluate how many people have already had it and how many actually need to be isolated. It provides us with a crucila and critical path to segmentation.

If the herd is already large enough then nature has provided or is already providing a shield. Natural immunity can in turn curtail the spread of this thing. That really is the best we have got.

If not then you have to identify the infected and isolate them.

Slowing down the spread of it just buys you a better chance of getting a bed at a hospital right now. It's not a cure and it's not going to save you.

If your time is up, it's up, no matter what. Doctors and nurses are also dying right now.

Mass isolation is no long term answer, it;s a kneew jerk mass panic reaction. After all who is going to make you all the equipment and tests etc etc that is so desperately needed ?


The issue with testing is that its only 70% effective during the crucial time of days 4 to 10. Its only good in regards to whoever it says has the disease, has it (100% specificity I believe).


Also it doesn't take into account the multiple strains of the virus, with one strain being far more deadly than the other.

Slowing down the spread allows you to get supportive care in a hospital if your symptoms are bad enough, which can save you. There is a difference between having a cure, and needing supportive care (e.g. inotropic support) to get you through the virus.

You are right. Doctors, nurses and young people are drying from this and having a bed for them is of upmost importance, especially if they are young, as they'll likely be able to pull through with the right supportive treatment (I'm not specifically talking about ventilation).

I'm not even going to entertain the herd immunity theory you threw in there.



For such strong opinions btw, what is your job or profession?
 
Some people are as bad as the Americans with the party politics here. None of these politicians give two tosses about you or anything other than lining their pockets with money and power. We should be critical and cynical about every decision they make otherwise they'll just keep pushing and pushing
 
The worst thing I have witnesses about all of this is how the media have acted like absolute idiots, they are spreading fear and misinformation everywhere and should be totally ashamed one rag in mind is the Daily Mail, they are changing headlines at lightning speed just for clickbait I wish they were suspended for a week because of the dross they print, terrible behaviour. 🤬

And other outlets are just as bad.

Rant/Over

Agreed. I've stopped watching reading and watching all media outlets as far as possible.

It turns out that the "healthy 19 year old" actually died of a heart attack and hadn't been tested for Covid19 yet it was headline news both ITV and BBC TV that she was the youngesr victim!
 
The problem is it's a matter of resource.

Everyone is screaming for ventilators right now. It will be a shortage of something else by tomorrow and so forth.

Thing is, no one is going to make you one or can make you one if everyone is sat at home.

Mass isolation may give the NHS a break for a short while but it doesn't actually alleviate the actual problem.

Mass panic and mass fear is not the answer and that's eaxctly where we are right now. Instead cooler heads are needed to break the cycle......
 
And Labour saddled it with PFI.



Any more on the Toorreess?

Yes:

I did say that I was not a fan of Blair, and this:

 
Yes:

I did say that I was not a fan of Blair
While also trying to make out things were better with him than the toorreess.
, and this:

Left wing blog site doesn't like Toorreess. Who knew?

Screenshot_20191105-191459_Twitter.jpg
 
The problem is it's a matter of resource.

Everyone is screaming for ventilators right now. It will be a shortage of something else by tomorrow and so forth.

Thing is, no one is going to make you one or can make you one if everyone is sat at home.

Mass isolation may give the NHS a break for a short while but it doesn't actually alleviate the actual problem.

Mass panic and mass fear is not the answer and that's eaxctly where we are right now. Instead cooler heads are needed to break the cycle......

Ventilators are only part of the problem.

The issue is the lack of staff in the nhs.

You can have all the ventilators, bipap, niv, dialysis and cpap machined you want but it won’t matter if you lack the doctors to man them.

Having the worst doctor to patient ratio in Europe is the telling statistic.

The nhs has been working on a bare bones value for money model for ages, and sadly this pandemic has shown it off for what it is.
 
Ventilators are only part of the problem.

The issue is the lack of staff in the nhs.

You can have all the ventilators, bipap, niv, dialysis and cpap machined you want but it won’t matter if you lack the doctors to man them.

Having the worst doctor to patient ratio in Europe is the telling statistic.

The nhs has been working on a bare bones value for money model for ages, and sadly this pandemic has shown it off for what it is.
A once in a probably 100 year event? Great. I'd rather my taxes went on day to day needs not "volcano insurance."

This was something no one saw coming, not even Richard Horton until a few weeks ago, or anyone globally, is all a bit of a surprise, but we knocked up a hospital, got Dyson building ventilators etc.
 
A once in a probably 100 year event? Great. I'd rather my taxes went on day to day needs not "volcano insurance."

This was something no one saw coming, not even Richard Horton until a few weeks ago.
Well apart from Bill Gates 5 years ago :eek:
 

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