Coronavirus - do you trust the UK Government to make the right decisions ?

Coronavirus - do you trust the UK government to make the right decisions?

  • Yes

    Votes: 121 27.8%
  • No

    Votes: 314 72.2%

  • Total voters
    435

DJDave87

Active Member
If schools go back and it starts to fall apart, the kids will be off again and we'll go back into lockdown. Then all the dates will no doubt be pushed until we get more vaccinations done.

I pray it all goes smoothly, otherwise there really is going to be a sh*tstorm this time.

I find a lot of people err too much on the side of optimism at the expense of realism. We need to be realistic about what could happen.

Always better to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Rather than forget about the second part.

Not sure thats a fair argument.

How does this work with the economy? How is lengthening lockdowns preparing for the worst in terms of mitigating the 800,000 job losses. In that regards it sounds like youre hoping for the best and dismissing any preparations for the worst.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Not sure thats a fair argument.

How does this work with the economy? How is lengthening lockdowns preparing for the worst in terms of mitigating the 800,000 job losses. In that regards it sounds like youre hoping for the best and dismissing any preparations for the worst.

I don't quite know what you're on about here as I've done nothing of the sort.

I'm talking about people being prepared for things not going smoothly and the "dates" not ending up being adhered to. The government will need to be prepared on their end.

It's going to be a bumpy road and no-one should be under any illusion that what was touted yesterday is gospel.
 

DJDave87

Active Member
My daughter isn't happy with having to wear a mask in lessons.

I rudely told her just to suck it up and get on with it. Which earned me an evil stare and probably some sulkiness later.

But masks and increased testing are obviously how they are going to try and prevent schools causing too much of a a problem. Gotta just hope it works.

The Easter holidays acting as a "buffer" is a good idea. Lots of testing when they go back, a few weeks of mixing then off for the holidays again.

Not so sure on that one. Is it not what happened at christmas? Everyone has their daily routines going, so everyone is in their bubbles at home, then schools open which mixes the bubbles increasing cases, then those bubbles are dispersed further for easter holidays as everyone goes seeing their families.
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
I'm trying to get my son to push his back to later in the year.

The fact is I dont' want either set of grandparents at a wedding, even if there are just 15 or 30 people there. They're too old and frail.

When everyone is vaccinated then yeah but not right now.
We are having two, gathering over in Russia/Lithuania and a gathering (Actual legal ceremony) over here.
Both sets of grand parents passed away yrs ago, there are quite intense familial pressures from her side.
Best to sit on our hands for a while longer I think.
 

DJDave87

Active Member
I don't quite know what you're on about here as I've done nothing of the sort.

I'm talking about people being prepared for things not going smoothly and the "dates" not ending up being adhered to. The government will need to be prepared on their end.

It's going to be a bumpy road and no-one should be under any illusion that what was touted yesterday is gospel.

Apologies, i assumed your statement was being made for comparison.

Id add that whilst the government need to be prepared people should expect them not to be, and even if they are theres every chance that they individually will not be considered in those preparations.
 

Mevlock

Member
Not sure thats a fair argument.

How does this work with the economy? How is lengthening lockdowns preparing for the worst in terms of mitigating the 800,000 job losses. In that regards it sounds like youre hoping for the best and dismissing any preparations for the worst.

I think the problem with Johnsons plan is that there is no plan B.

EVERYTHING rides on the vaccine rollout.

It's a gamble, again.

But then, in my view the alternative, zero covid is also a gamble. We'd have to lengthen the lock down, probably for a looooog time give the drop in cases are starting to stall out. It wouldn't be just 6 weeks which I've seem some zero covid advocates say. Zero covid also doesn't actually mean "zero" it means getting cases extremely low that it's much easier to keep control. However no one has done that so far, in any country, not at this point after it's mostly become endemic, the virus just seems too stubborn. And given how hopeless our test and trace is I've no confidence than at even very low levels it wouldn't just get out of control again. And at that point the economy has been decimated by months of more lock down.

So we're left with the Bojos plan which is vaccinate everyone and accept we'll have many more deaths :( But people can mostly get back to normal.
Not so sure on that one. Is it not what happened at christmas? Everyone has their daily routines going, so everyone is in their bubbles at home, then schools open which mixes the bubbles increasing cases, then those bubbles are dispersed further for easter holidays as everyone goes seeing their families.
I think this is why step 2 happens AFTER Easter and most school holidays.

Nothing really changes until then.
 

Mevlock

Member
Technically until the 12th of April everyone should still be staying indoors and staying local.

I'm reopening my chippy next week and I'm fully expecting people to ignore the "stay local" advice.

We're in a small coastal town and I think we'll be rammed at Easter. If the weather is nice people will just go for a drive anyway.

But we've voluntarily shut for two months, without grant support and have to reopen sometime.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
..and no indoor mixing until after 17th May by the look of it.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Apologies, i assumed your statement was being made for comparison.

Id add that whilst the government need to be prepared people should expect them not to be, and even if they are theres every chance that they individually will not be considered in those preparations.

No worries.

And yes, I agree with you. I am always prepared for the government's lack of preparedness. I wouldn't trust this government to make a cup of tea without burning the house down.
 

Mevlock

Member
..and no indoor mixing until after 17th May by the look of it.

Yup, being able to get out and about is the big one for us.

Even just day trippers are a big help.

The whole "minimise" travel still on the 12 of April seem a bit pointless to me. Once it's no longer a legal requirement and just advisory people will ignore it. I've seen that first hand over the past year.

It's really hard to keep people inside once they are allowed out.

Plus it's somewhat contradictory. Zoos will be able to open, outside cinemas and all kinds of outdoor attractions. Rule of 6 will apply. If your still telling people to minimise travel why are they allowed to open?

Likely to enable businesses to surive by gettgin custom, but not encourage a free for all. I still think the latter will happen anyway after having people cooped up all winter.
 

DJDave87

Active Member
I think the problem with Johnsons plan is that there is no plan B.

EVERYTHING rides on the vaccine rollout.

It's a gamble, again.

But then, in my view the alternative, zero covid is also a gamble. We'd have to lengthen the lock down, probably for a looooog time give the drop in cases are starting to stall out. It wouldn't be just 6 weeks which I've seem some zero covid advocates say. Zero covid also doesn't actually mean "zero" it means getting cases extremely low that it's much easier to keep control. However no one has done that so far, in any country, not at this point after it's mostly become endemic, the virus just seems too stubborn. And given how hopeless our test and trace is I've no confidence than at even very low levels it wouldn't just get out of control again. And at that point the economy has been decimated by months of more lock down.

So we're left with the Bojos plan which is vaccinate everyone and accept we'll have many more deaths :( But people can mostly get back to normal.

I think this is why step 2 happens AFTER Easter and most school holidays.

Nothing really changes until then.

It does, it seems like all or nothing. We cant afford to go into another lockdown, to me means, we cant really afford to be in this one. Every extra day makes it that extra bit worse when we do come out of it. But every day earlier we come out risks cases and deaths rising.

It does seem impossible to know the right answer.

I dont think its that bad of a route. The time for pause and reflect seems appropriate.

I didn't think social interactions were opening up until after Easter?

I thought the rule of 6 was taking place from beginning of april? Ive not seen the detail of it, just assuming itll work such that i can go and see my parents in their garden (3 and 2) my sister can go and see my parents (4 + 2) on the same day that essentially mixes 3 young kids classes so about 120 people.

I know my mates are planning a BBQ that weekend, i do think theyve gotten a bit excited and assuming it wont actually be allowed.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Yes, you can mix outdoors (up to 6) , but you are still supposed to stay local ie minimise travel.
 

Mevlock

Member
I thought the rule of 6 was taking place from beginning of april? Ive not seen the detail of it, just assuming itll work such that i can go and see my parents in their garden (3 and 2) my sister can go and see my parents (4 + 2) on the same day that essentially mixes 3 young kids classes so about 120 people.

I know my mates are planning a BBQ that weekend, i do think theyve gotten a bit excited and assuming it wont actually be allowed.

From the 29th of March. Rule of six outside (including private gardens) or two full households even if that means more than 6 people. But as IronGiant says staying local until the 12 of April.

If you mean a barbecue with multiple households then I don't think that will be legal until step 3, on the 17th of May when there will be a 30 person limit outdoors.
 

DJDave87

Active Member
Yes, you can mix outdoors (up to 6) , but you are still supposed to stay local ie minimise travel.
Im reading it up to 6 within 2 families. So if you have family of 8 seeing a grandparent it would be ok but me and the boys for a BBQ not ok. Me and the sis can both see our parents but we cant see them at the same time.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Not sure about the 8, I think it's a max of six from up to 2 families, but yes to the rest.
 

inzaman

Moderator
I think the problem with Johnsons plan is that there is no plan B.

EVERYTHING rides on the vaccine rollout.

It's a gamble, again.

But then, in my view the alternative, zero covid is also a gamble. We'd have to lengthen the lock down, probably for a looooog time give the drop in cases are starting to stall out. It wouldn't be just 6 weeks which I've seem some zero covid advocates say. Zero covid also doesn't actually mean "zero" it means getting cases extremely low that it's much easier to keep control. However no one has done that so far, in any country, not at this point after it's mostly become endemic, the virus just seems too stubborn. And given how hopeless our test and trace is I've no confidence than at even very low levels it wouldn't just get out of control again. And at that point the economy has been decimated by months of more lock down.

So we're left with the Bojos plan which is vaccinate everyone and accept we'll have many more deaths :( But people can mostly get back to normal.

I think this is why step 2 happens AFTER Easter and most school holidays.

Nothing really changes until then.
But there literally is no Plan B, simply because there cannot be a plan B that would, firstly work (okay you can go into total UK house arrest) but see my second point that - secondly be acceptable to the public.

We are were we are now and it really is vaccine or bust - there is no other alternative imo.
 

Mevlock

Member
It's pretty absurd that its taking multiple people discussing the issue on a forum to decide whether two households can meet in a garden or have a barbecue with others. But there we are.

The sooner this is over the better.
 

tapzilla2k

Distinguished Member
I am trully sorry for your predicament. I dont know how i can point out in any better way than highlighting that people will be let down by governments. Ive not experienced a second of my life where that hasnt been the case. I dont want it to happen, i dont make it happen i just keep trying to highlight to people that it will happen, even though they appear to know this themselves.

I'm in group 6 for other reasons. I don't think you appreciate just how complex Asthma is and how quickly you can go from having well controlled asthma to it not being controlled or suffering a fatal Asthma attack seemingly out of the blue. Hence part of the anger from asthmatics booted out of group 6, the other part of the anger is to do with basically not setting foot outside (other than for medical appointments etc) for the past year to minimise infection risk due to the warnings issued by Government to asthmatics about being vulnerable to COVID-19. Everyone knows Governments let you down, but this is particularly galling as they've led Asthmatics up a garden path without directly addressing why Asthmatics have been removed from group 6 other than vague references to evidence that looks to be flawed as it can't quantify the impact of the measures taken by asthmatics to mitigate COVID-19 infection risk.


Its an issue of governance not governments. You can please some of the people some of the time, not all the people all the time. Anyone who thinks otherwise just isnt being pragmatic.

Again you are not appreciating the nature of Asthma. It looks to be a decision based on a calculation that not many asthmatics will die from COVID-19 so they can be removed to speed up the vaccination of group 6 and thus hit targets on time. Pragmatism has nothing to do with this, if the Government were being pragmatic they'd have kept all asthmatics in groups 1-9 to lower the risk of the NHS having to deal with long COVID in Asthmatics. Asthmatics might not die from COVID-19 but the long term effects of a COVID-19 infection look to be significant and likely expensive for the NHS to treat.

FWIW, im not a tory voter, i cant imagine ill be voting for them in the next election either. I dont like this government because im certain theyre going to let people down. Id imagine it would be the case no matter which political party is in government from the current incumbents of parliament.

The current Government made critical mistakes over and over again. It's part of why the death toll is around 120,000+. If they are ever held to account for those mistakes and deaths is anyone's guess at the moment. Who you vote for doesn't really come into this until the next General Election.

If kids arent being vaccinated, i think we need to assume that whenever schools open there will be an increase in cases and deaths (no indication theyll be done before summer holidays and then youre looking at opening schools going in to winter for something that we know has acted seasonally) which will mean disruption in schools irrespective of teachers being vaccinated or not. Its not that different than when lockdown ends there will be an increase in road traffic accidents or people suffering from asthma as a result of increased air pollution. These are the risks that are weighed, where winners and losers are chosen. Id like it to not happen or at the least not let the likes of Hancock, Johnson (or starmer and his motley crew of unrelateable caricatures) to be in charge of making those choices.

The R rate is already predicted to be pushed over 1 by Government scientists with a best case scenario of maybe an extra 30,000 deaths as a result of restrictions being eased. As for Children, you seem to have not taken in that children haven't been vaccinated as yet due to pending clinical trials to assess the safety and efficacy of vaccines in children under 16. If those trials go well, then you can expect later in the year or maybe early next year for the government to start a vaccination programme of children in schools if that's where the evidence points.
If Government wants to keep schools open, then they have no choice but to vaccinate teachers and support staff so they don't have to isolate classes or entire year groups. They haven't done it, so I expect we'll see schools opening and closing due to infections and self isolation requirements.

This isn't about winners and losers, this is about hard science and a Government that barely pays attention to science unless it suits them or the NHS is at risk of collapse.
 

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