Coronavirus - do you trust the UK Government to make the right decisions ?

Coronavirus - do you trust the UK government to make the right decisions?

  • Yes

    Votes: 121 27.8%
  • No

    Votes: 314 72.2%

  • Total voters
    435

paule23

Active Member
I agree. Although nominally talking about 'science not dates', I think there is a real risk that 21 June takes on a life of its own making it politically impossible not to open up on that regardless of the virus. Personally I hope Sturgeon takes a slightly slower approach when she makes her announcement later today.
Oh I hope not. Throughout the Pandemic wee nippy appears to have taken a different position to England just to make a point about political independence.

virus transmission and deaths in Scotland are below England, easing of lockdown should be quicker not slower.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Gyms aren't outside, that's the only reason as far as I can tell.
 

realfrankturner

Distinguished Member
Depends on your priorities. I'm happy they're opening the beer gardens - I'll be able to take my family for our first meal out in over 6 months.

Peoples mental health should be a priority and what gyms bring all round, and peoples health full stop. So people can get rat assed and more unhealthy before you can goto the gym.

I appreciate thats not everyone and going out for a meal will be good too for people, but with the data about gyms and the positive effect they have on people they should be one of the first to be re-opened in my view.

@IronGiant - Yep, you're right, I still think they should be re-opened, I felt very safe in my gym with what was being done and my own common sense.
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
Peoples mental health should be a priority and what gyms bring all round, and peoples health full stop. So people can get rat assed and more unhealthy before you can goto the gym.

I appreciate thats not everyone and going out for a meal will be good too for people, but with the data about gyms and the positive effect they have on people they should be one of the first to be re-opened in my view.

@IronGiant - Yep, you're right, I still think they should be re-opened, I felt very safe in my gym with what was being done and my own common sense.
Yes, completely agree about mental health. I go out running 2-3 times a week to get my fix. Personally, I can't stand gyms - but appreciate that lots of people do.

It would support mine and my wife's mental health to go for a meal and a pint and allow our three little kids to run around a secure garden.
 

Belzok

Well-known Member
I think mask wearing in shops and busy centres should be a requirement for the rest of the year, ish, to allow the easing of the lockdown.

That would be a decent way back to 99% normality and help reduce the risk of another spike.
 

realfrankturner

Distinguished Member
It would support mine and my wife's mental health to go for a meal and a pint and allow our three little kids to run around a secure garden.

I get that, that's fair enough, it will be nice, especially if it's a sunny day, unfortunately for every one person like yourself there will be 20 going for different reasons and causing more issues.

I think gyms should have been a priority personally, the data I read before there was hardly no cases linked to gyms, now got to wait a month and a half yet can go and get trashed if I want before that.
 

Lee

Moderator
Anything about weddings...
They were mentioned in the final lifting in June.

Step 4, no earlier than 21 June:

  • It is hoped all legal limits on social contact can be removed.
  • We hope to reopen nightclubs, and lift restrictions on large events and performances that apply in Step 3.
  • This will also guide decisions on whether all limits can be removed on weddings and other life events.

 

Lee

Moderator
Schools re-opening all at once is going to be the riskiest thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if outbreaks started happening fairly quickly.
It's certainly going to be a twitchy period. The rate of drop in new cases has slowed so when the kids go back there will likely still be a fair amount of infection about.
 

Mevlock

Member
They were mentioned in the final lifting in June.

Step 4, no earlier than 21 June:

  • It is hoped all legal limits on social contact can be removed.
  • We hope to reopen nightclubs, and lift restrictions on large events and performances that apply in Step 3.
  • This will also guide decisions on whether all limits can be removed on weddings and other life events.

For unrestricted ones, I think yes.

But as per the full road map:

Weddings

15 people from April the 12th and in step 3 it seems to go up to 30 on the 17th of May.


Capture.PNG


Capture2.PNG
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
All scenarios point to an increase in infections and deaths. I hope people realise that.

The way out isn't just paved in sunshine.
 

acatweasel

Well-known Member
For unrestricted ones, I think yes.

But as per the full road map:

Weddings

15 people from April the 12th and in step 3 it seems to go up to 30 on the 17th of May.


View attachment 1465510

View attachment 1465512
Useful graphic that.

On the “road back“, I would have liked to have seen something about vaccine completion rates. It’s become a hobby horse for me, but ideally I’d have vaccinated 8 million kids before opening the schools up, etc, etc.
 

Mevlock

Member
All scenarios point to an increase in infections and deaths. I hope people realise that.

The way out isn't just paved in sunshine.

Yes :(

We're still looking at tens of thousands of people over the next year most likely.

I like the modelling done here:


It's just one and obviously models are just that, but he's continually adjusting it as new infomation comes to light, vaccine takeup, vaccine efficacy. Whereas most of the modelling you read about in the media is out of date within days!

He suggest we'll likely have another wave, and not a small one later in the year. But it really all comes down to uptake and transmission effect.

But yeah, more deaths are inevitable.

I expect from today you see lots and lots of criticism from people who would prefer we go for zero covid.

Now I personally don't think it's a straight forward choice. I liked the BBC video you posted a few days ago it treat the argument very fairly.

The real problem for me as others have pointed out is what happens if schools going back means the entire plan falls apart?
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Yes :(

We're still looking at tens of thousands of people over the next year most likely.

I like the modelling done here:


It's just one and obviously models are just that, but he's continually adjusting it as new infomation comes to light, vaccine takeup, vaccine efficacy. Whereas most of the modelling you read about in the media is out of date within days!

He suggest we'll likely have another wave, and not a small one later in the year. But it really all comes down to uptake and transmission effect.

But yeah, more deaths are inevitable.

I expect from today you see lots and lots of criticism from people who would prefer we go for zero covid.

Now I personally don't think it's a straight forward choice. I liked the BBC video you posted a few days ago it treat the argument very fairly.

The real problem for me as others have pointed out is what happens if schools going back means the entire plan falls apart?

If schools go back and it starts to fall apart, the kids will be off again and we'll go back into lockdown. Then all the dates will no doubt be pushed until we get more vaccinations done.

I pray it all goes smoothly, otherwise there really is going to be a sh*tstorm this time.

I find a lot of people err too much on the side of optimism at the expense of realism. We need to be realistic about what could happen.

Always better to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Rather than forget about the second part.
 

Tight Git

Distinguished Member
All scenarios point to an increase in infections and deaths. I hope people realise that.

Well, if they don't then they weren't paying attention!

Yesterday Boris could not have been more clear and treated us as adults, perhaps for the first time in one of the briefings.

Of course, the stupid journalists then spoiled it by asking for guarantees, exact dates and whether he would resign, etc...
 

DJDave87

Active Member
There are other factors used to determine whose in Groups 1-9, it's not all due to age and health conditions. Millions of Asthmatics have been punted out of groups 1-9 due to evidence that suggests Asthmatics are at less risk of dying (the studies can't take into account various factors like the impact asthmatics self isolating and extra precautions have had on hospitalisations making the decision somewhat speculative at best). Or as Alice Roberts put it -





We won't know the true picture when it comes to the under 30's until after the pandemic has ended. Plenty of those under 30 are suffering with long COVID. That's the elephant in the room the Government hasn't addressed yet.



Asthmatics were told they were vulnerable to COVID-19 and took necessary measures to avoid infection. Now they've been told they are not as vulnerable and have been booted out of groups 1-9 with no word on when they'll be vaccinated or if they'll have to wait to be vaccinated after healthy people. Asthmatics are angry as a result after being told they were definitely in groups 1-9 for months.



The Government aren't looking at longer term issues with COVID-19 in the shape of Long COVID and organ damage in those who don't die from COVID-19. Vaccination isn't complete until you've had both doses btw. It should be feasible to finish vaccinating groups 1-9 alongside giving healthy adults a first dose of vaccine by the end of July and then giving the second dose to healthy adults by the Autumn. Then probably going back to groups 1-9 with the updated vaccines to act as a booster shot.



That's because they are about to start clinical trials in children to see if the vaccines are safe and effective.



The vaccines are yet to be licensed for use in children under 16, that's why. As for teachers being vaccinated ? If you want to keep schools open then ensuring teachers and support staff are vaccinated is the only way to make that happen. Otherwise you get entire classes (or year groups) having to isolate which means the parents of the children impacted have to self isolate as well. It has a knock on effect. Schools are a central part of the community, not something remote that has no impact.

I am trully sorry for your predicament. I dont know how i can point out in any better way than highlighting that people will be let down by governments. Ive not experienced a second of my life where that hasnt been the case. I dont want it to happen, i dont make it happen i just keep trying to highlight to people that it will happen, even though they appear to know this themselves.

Its an issue of governance not governments. You can please some of the people some of the time, not all the people all the time. Anyone who thinks otherwise just isnt being pragmatic.

FWIW, im not a tory voter, i cant imagine ill be voting for them in the next election either. I dont like this government because im certain theyre going to let people down. Id imagine it would be the case no matter which political party is in government from the current incumbents of parliament.

If kids arent being vaccinated, i think we need to assume that whenever schools open there will be an increase in cases and deaths (no indication theyll be done before summer holidays and then youre looking at opening schools going in to winter for something that we know has acted seasonally) which will mean disruption in schools irrespective of teachers being vaccinated or not. Its not that different than when lockdown ends there will be an increase in road traffic accidents or people suffering from asthma as a result of increased air pollution. These are the risks that are weighed, where winners and losers are chosen. Id like it to not happen or at the least not let the likes of Hancock, Johnson (or starmer and his motley crew of unrelateable caricatures) to be in charge of making those choices.
 

Mevlock

Member
My daughter isn't happy with having to wear a mask in lessons.

I rudely told her just to suck it up and get on with it. Which earned me an evil stare and probably some sulkiness later.

But masks and increased testing are obviously how they are going to try and prevent schools causing too much of a a problem. Gotta just hope it works.

The Easter holidays acting as a "buffer" is a good idea. Lots of testing when they go back, a few weeks of mixing then off for the holidays again.
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member

richp007

Distinguished Member
Well, if they don't then they weren't paying attention!

Yesterday Boris could not have been more clear and treated us as adults, perhaps for the first time in one of the briefings.

Of course, the stupid journalists then spoiled it by asking for guarantees, exact dates and whether he would resign, etc...

The journalists were a joke indeed, but the problem is people see and hear what they want to. They just see dates and jollies ahead, and forget about the in-between.
 

Mevlock

Member
15 or 30 then...

We'll have to wait it out, that's not enough, both close families are bigger than that. :laugh:

I'm trying to get my son to push his back to later in the year.

The fact is I dont' want either set of grandparents at a wedding, even if there are just 15 or 30 people there. They're too old and frail.

When everyone is vaccinated then yeah but not right now.
 

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