Coronavirus - do you trust the UK Government to make the right decisions ?

Coronavirus - do you trust the UK government to make the right decisions?

  • Yes

    Votes: 109 30.5%
  • No

    Votes: 248 69.5%

  • Total voters
    357

maddy

Distinguished Member
Why mental?

Universities are looking to be the next hotspots, and you want them to take it home? o_O
It's a hugely significant denial of liberty which is out of proportion to the level of risk, and it's a restriction that had no defined end date.

One of the fundamental principles that the UK pandemic (flu) strategy was predicated on was the importance of keeping the society and day to day life as normal as possible; the politicians are doing more damange to the fabric of society - that intricate weave of bonds between individuals, clubs, groups and societies - than the virus will do.
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Restrictions on our liberty is not nice but on a basic level adult students are like any other adult who has moved out. The caveat is that undergraduates are adults who may not be financially independent. So there needs to be support when it comes to rent and living costs, especially if part time work opportunities are reduced. There's already complaints about students handing over term one rent only to find out their course teaching will be online

Disclaimer: I already told my mother last week that I assume the annual December visit to Manchester will not be possible this year. Not to pre-empt how the gov will manage the coming months when we are barely into autumn *cough*
 

Ekko Star

Distinguished Member
I'm surprised the Vallance story hasn't received much attention in the media so far. Maybe it has already been dismissed as irrelevant.
Probably because Vallance will eventually get dismissed as irrelevant......
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
It's a hugely significant denial of liberty which is out of proportion to the level of risk, and it's a restriction that had no defined end date.

One of the fundamental principles that the UK pandemic (flu) strategy was predicated on was the importance of keeping the society and day to day life as normal as possible; the politicians are doing more damange to the fabric of society - that intricate weave of bonds between individuals, clubs, groups and societies - than the virus will do.
So as per the thread title, you don't trust the UK government to make the right decision's anymore?

Whilst I of course do agree with you with regards to the damage they are doing, I always knew this would end up being the case. They've been playing catch-up since Day 1, and not ever managed to get close. Nor close to managing with any adequacy or competence.

One of the biggest crises this country has ever faced, being managed by the most incompetent government this country has ever had. (In any of our lifetimes anyway).

Shouldn't have been difficult for people to foresee. I think I did call it 300 pages or so back. And I should have been proved wrong by now.

I do wonder also if that 70% in the poll is really a lot closer to 100% these days.

Sadly I suspect so.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
MP’s have been briefed on the difference between Italy’s and Britain’s response to Coronavirus. Apparently, the contrast could not be more different, with England accused of being too lax with restrictions and not having learned the lessons from the first wave...

‘Britain and Italy's response to the coronavirus could not be more different, MPs told’


‘As Britain battles a second wave of coronavirus infections, MPs heard on Wednesday how Italy, the epicentre of Europe’s coronavirus outbreak back in February, managed to turn the tide on the disease’

‘Italy’s response to the coronavirus outbreak was once seen as too extreme, but tough measures have since helped keep infections down, a group of experts told the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on Wednesday’

‘Britain, on the other hand, has been too complacent and even now, as the country is faced with a growing threat, measures are not strict enough’

‘The UK is now facing a second wave of the virus and more restrictions while in Italy seems to have so far escaped a huge resurgence of the disease’

‘The two countries have similar sized populations but the cultural chasm between the two nations has resulted in divergent epidemiological outcomes’

‘The contrast between Britain and Italy’s response could not be more different, agreed Professor Luca Richeldi, Associate Professor of Respiratory Medicine at the University of Modena and a member of Italy’s strategic committee for Covid-19’

"England is being too generous” with restrictions, he told MPs. The new rules put forward by Boris Johnson on Tuesday still allow households to mix indoors where infection is rife’

Britain and Italy's response to the coronavirus could not be more different, MPs told — The Telegraph
 

Reyreyrey

Active Member
MP’s have been briefed on the difference between Italy’s and Britain’s response to Coronavirus. Apparently, the contrast could not be more different, with England accused of being too lax with restrictions and not having learned the lessons from the first wave...

‘Britain and Italy's response to the coronavirus could not be more different, MPs told’

‘As Britain battles a second wave of coronavirus infections, MPs heard on Wednesday how Italy, the epicentre of Europe’s coronavirus outbreak back in February, managed to turn the tide on the disease’

‘Italy’s response to the coronavirus outbreak was once seen as too extreme, but tough measures have since helped keep infections down, a group of experts told the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on Wednesday’

‘Britain, on the other hand, has been too complacent and even now, as the country is faced with a growing threat, measures are not strict enough’

‘The UK is now facing a second wave of the virus and more restrictions while in Italy seems to have so far escaped a huge resurgence of the disease’

‘The two countries have similar sized populations but the cultural chasm between the two nations has resulted in divergent epidemiological outcomes’

‘The contrast between Britain and Italy’s response could not be more different, agreed Professor Luca Richeldi, Associate Professor of Respiratory Medicine at the University of Modena and a member of Italy’s strategic committee for Covid-19’

"England is being too generous” with restrictions, he told MPs. The new rules put forward by Boris Johnson on Tuesday still allow households to mix indoors where infection is rife’

Britain and Italy's response to the coronavirus could not be more different, MPs told — The Telegraph
Too early to tell much, but the death rate in Italy has been increasing. It's only a week behind the UK.
 

iangreasby

Distinguished Member
Too early to tell much, but the death rate in Italy has been increasing. It's only a week behind the UK.
Italy's death rate has only marginally increased. Their rolling 7 day average is 15. Realistically, you are not going to see it much lower than that, especially now the weather is getting cooler. Across Europe, the rises in cases, hospitalisations and deaths will inevitably occur due to colder weather. We see the same trend every year with flu. It's far too early to start panicking, although that seems exactly what the government are doing. The question will be, what is an "acceptable" number of deaths, it is going to rise though, no matter what we do.
 

usako

Member

Taking risks is normal,using your car, booking a flight. But we are able to control the situation risks, having a choice of the airline, having the car maintained. What Rishi is suggesting is ignoring COVID thugs, out for control. Why should we not be worried about people ignoring any advice.
 

sicrates

Active Member

Taking risks is normal,using your car, booking a flight. But we are able to control the situation risks, having a choice of the airline, having the car maintained. What Rishi is suggesting is ignoring COVID thugs, out for control. Why should we not be worried about people ignoring any advice.
But there are also laws and restrictions to reduce the risk from others. Other people need to drive safely and within speed limits, and have an MOT and insurance. Regulations mean airlines have to maintain their planes and have qualified people operate them. These limits on the freedom of others does not protect them necessarily, they are there to protect you.

The same with Covid restrictions. They are not there to protect the individual wearing the mask or staying away from family, they are there to ensure that the prevalence of the virus is low enough that those who cannot avoid contact with others have a chance of it contracting it.
If someone doesn’t wear a mask in a shop then the people they are affecting most are the people working in the shop, not themselves.
The sad fact is that through incompetence and corruption, the government has not implemented a working test, track and trace system to keep the levels down. And so we are forced to have more lockdown measures to keep people safe. If we had a suitable system then restrictions would not need to be nearly as bad.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
That's not a graph for the death rate.

It's too early to tell, but case numbers don't always give us the best picture of what's really happening.
There are key differences between Britain and Italy’s response to the pandemic. Crucially, a test and trace system that is more effective and controlled at the local level. Moreover, there are strictly enforced safety rules such as mask wearing. As Britain’s case rates are dramatically rising it will be interesting to see what happens in comparison?

‘Why is Italy faring better than the UK when it comes to fighting a second wave?‘

‘Italy has so far suffered around 35,000 coronavirus linked deaths compared to over 41,000 in the UK, but it is the current infection rates that provide the more pertinent contrast between the two countries’

‘Daily death rates in Italy are averaging in the low teens each day, compared to the UK where deaths are climbing into the 20s and 30s’

‘But significantly the UK is currently reporting around 5,000 new cases a day, while the figure in Italy is around 1,500’

‘But experts say the explanation is far more likely to be a combination of good testing and tracing systems, strictly-enforced safety rules, and the fact that Italy closed everything earlier and reopened later than in neighbouring countries’

Mask Wearing:
‘In contrast to the UK, Italy has imposed much stricter rules on the wearing of face masks, which have largely been followed by the public.

Shops and restaurants are strict about enforcing the rules, as police checks are common. If a customer is found not wearing a mask when required, not only does the customer face being fined, but so does each staff member on the premises’

Track and trace works
‘But the key factor as to why Italy's rates are lower is that which was angrily rejected by Boris Johnson - the existence of a functioning test and trace system in place, that the WHO has long said is key to tackling infection rates.

In contrast Italy's test and trace system has largely been deemed a success.

Testing in Italy is tightly controlled by the public health service, with private labs and clinics having to seek special authorisation to conduct swab tests, which helps the local authorities stay on top of every new confirmed case’

https://www.thelocal.it/20200923/wh...an-uk-when-it-comes-to-fighting-a-second-wave
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
The sad fact is that through incompetence and corruption, the government has not implemented a working test, track and trace system to keep the levels down. And so we are forced to have more lockdown measures to keep people safe. If we had a suitable system then restrictions would not need to be nearly as bad.
This represents one of their starkest failings yet, one that simply cannot be denied or defended.

We always knew we needed an effective test and trace system to enable us to get on. Once schools re-opened, people went back to work etc. It was perhaps the most important logistical target the government had.

What have we got?

A test and trace system that looks like a work experience lackey has been let loose on it. Or am I still being too kind there to Dido Harding?
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
This represents one of their starkest failings yet, one that simply cannot be denied or defended.

We always knew we needed an effective test and trace system to enable us to get on. Once schools re-opened, people went back to work etc. It was perhaps the most important logistical target the government had.

What have we got?

A test and trace system that looks like a work experience lackey has been let loose on it. Or am I still being too kind there to Dido Harding?
You’re spot on! As the examples of Italy and Germany have shown the test and trace programmes are tightly controlled at the local level by the health authorities. Once proven positive, people are traced and isolated. All these key elements are poorly implemented over here. We tried to have a centralised system which has failed and the tracing has been poor, we’ve lost vital time in preparing, now businesses and the economy are paying the price for this incompetence.
 

acatweasel

Well-known Member
This represents one of their starkest failings yet, one that simply cannot be denied or defended.

We always knew we needed an effective test and trace system to enable us to get on. Once schools re-opened, people went back to work etc. It was perhaps the most important logistical target the government had.

What have we got?

A test and trace system that looks like a work experience lackey has been let loose on it. Or am I still being too kind there to Dido Harding?
A work experience lackey would at least have some work experience........
 

chalk40

Well-known Member
You’re hilarious! Perhaps you can join up with Bojo he’s proving to be a bit of clown 🤡
Ace emoji .... my skill set seems limited to a blue thumb and a smiley face. A clown with blue hair! ... That's made my Friday night.

A man used to email and laptops rather than smart phones and social media as you can tell :) .... bugger I can't find the blue thumb ... that was nearly funny.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
Ace emoji .... my skill set seems limited to a blue thumb and a smiley face. A clown with blue hair! ... That's made my Friday night.

A man used to email and laptops rather than smart phones and social media as you can tell :) .... bugger I can't find the blue thumb ... that was nearly funny.
Yes, I thought that would be an appropriate emoji! Ofcourse, it would be funny if it wasn’t so serious but, I’m finding it hard to understand why Johnson et al still haven’t sorted out an effective pandemic strategy? It’s been a catalogue of errors and mis-steps. They appear incapable of learning from others and their best practices. A combination of ignorance and arrogance!
Blimey, I think I need a beer!
 

chalk40

Well-known Member
Yes, I thought that would be an appropriate emoji! Ofcourse, it would be funny if it wasn’t so serious but, I’m finding it hard to understand why Johnson et al still haven’t sorted out an effective pandemic strategy? It’s been a catalogue of errors and mis-steps. They appear incapable of learning from others and their best practices. A combination of ignorance and arrogance!
Blimey, I think I need a beer!
Oh yes I agree all that .... but what's that quote "I went to the Bahama's for a minute" ..... was the thought of wine soon. :)

Back to the serious stuff ... you right of course.

Ah I got it .... can only do blue thumb when you like something ...... watch this space
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