Coronavirus - do you trust the UK Government to make the right decisions ?

Coronavirus - do you trust the UK government to make the right decisions?

  • Yes

    Votes: 102 31.4%
  • No

    Votes: 223 68.6%

  • Total voters
    325

krish

Distinguished Member
Support bubbles haven't been affected yet, right? Only just saw my elderly parents, 90 miles away, for the first time in over 4 months, last weekend, and we were more cautious than advised. Plan on going back for the upcoming bank holiday, but expect there's a chance I won't be allowed.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Another example of putting a ‘protective ring’ around care homes? The incompetence continues...

‘Government 'drops pledge to test everyone in care homes for coronavirus'

‘The Government has abandoned a pledge to regularly test all people in care homes from this summer, it has been reported’

“Previously advised timelines for rolling out regular testing in care homes” were being axed because of “unexpected delays”, Professor Jane Cummings said.

‘The decision, which would throw into chaos the Government's test and trace system, appears to roll back on a promise of regular testing of nearly two million care home residents and staff. Testing was planned to start on July 6, but delayed, and Prof Cummings said that the earliest date by which it would reach all care homes was now September 7’

Government 'drops pledge to test everyone in care homes for coronavirus' — The Telegraph
As usual you find me shocked that they'd fail on yet another pledge.

At a time when they're worried about going backwards and locking down again as well. Exactly when testing is going to be required.

Support bubbles haven't been affected yet, right? Only just saw my elderly parents, 90 miles away, for the first time in over 4 months, last weekend, and we were more cautious than advised. Plan on going back for the upcoming bank holiday, but expect there's a chance I won't be allowed.
Not yet, but who the hell knows what the next few weeks are going to bring. It's an absolute clusterfudge right now.

We've only just been allowed back into the care home to see my old man. I've been once, my mum and sister have been once. If they have to lock down again I don't even want to think what's going to happen. In terms of my mum's mental well being and my old man's. He's definitely deteriorated in the last few months.

And I expect that is true for a great many others as well.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
As usual you find me shocked that they'd fail on yet another pledge.

At a time when they're worried about going backwards and locking down again as well. Exactly when testing is going to be required.



Not yet, but who the hell knows what the next few weeks are going to bring. It's an absolute clusterfudge right now.

We've only just been allowed back into the care home to see my old man. I've been once, my mum and sister have been once. If they have to lock down again I don't even want to think what's going to happen. In terms of my mum's mental well being and my old man's. He's definitely deteriorated in the last few months.

And I expect that is true for a great many others as well.

This issue gets worse the more you look into it. Note the message from Professor Cummings (not to be confused with the person with the same name running the country)

‘Care home coronavirus testing pledge abandoned’


‘Regular testing of almost two million residents and staff was supposed to have begun on July 6. But Cummings said it would not reach all care homes for older people and those with dementia until September 7.
Other adult care homes will only be able to order test kits from August 31. She also admitted that the system for registering tests was “unnecessarily burdensome”

A separate memo circulated among health officials last week said 64% of homes for the elderly or those with dementia had not had a round of “asymptomatic” testing. Of 9,144 homes, only 3,271 were sent testing equipment.

A senior public health official said more lives would “undoubtedly” be lost as a result’

Care home coronavirus testing pledge abandoned — The Times and The Sunday Times
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
This issue gets worse the more you look into it. Note the message from Professor Cummings (not to be confused with the person with the same name running the country)

‘Care home coronavirus testing pledge abandoned’

‘Regular testing of almost two million residents and staff was supposed to have begun on July 6. But Cummings said it would not reach all care homes for older people and those with dementia until September 7.
Other adult care homes will only be able to order test kits from August 31. She also admitted that the system for registering tests was “unnecessarily burdensome”

A separate memo circulated among health officials last week said 64% of homes for the elderly or those with dementia had not had a round of “asymptomatic” testing. Of 9,144 homes, only 3,271 were sent testing equipment.

A senior public health official said more lives would “undoubtedly” be lost as a result’

Care home coronavirus testing pledge abandoned — The Times and The Sunday Times
I dread to think what would happen if care homes were hit again. In terms of the obvious cost, but also the repercussions of it happening too.

Saw this the other day but forgot to post.


Elkan Abrahamson is no slouch. And has a lot of clout too after his work with Hillsborough families.
 

iangreasby

Well-known Member
If this is really being discussed as a possibility, then any small level of confidence I had in this government has completely gone. I don't mind wearing a mask, but I worry this may be the tip of the ice berg as regards the gradual withdrawal of civil liberties. Any suggestion of healthy over 50s having to stay at home will confirm my concerns.
 

krish

Distinguished Member
We've only just been allowed back into the care home to see my old man. I've been once, my mum and sister have been once. If they have to lock down again I don't even want to think what's going to happen. In terms of my mum's mental well being and my old man's. He's definitely deteriorated in the last few months.
Sorry to hear that. I remember it was a very worrying and stressful time when you posted about the care home asking for DNRs. Hope it all starts turning round for the better soon.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
If this is really being discussed as a possibility, then any small level of confidence I had in this government has completely gone. I don't mind wearing a mask, but I worry this may be the tip of the ice berg as regards the gradual withdrawal of civil liberties. Any suggestion of healthy over 50s having to stay at home will confirm my concerns.


What're they exactly going to do if someone breaks the rules though? If someone looks over 50 is caught outside their home, they're going to ID them and then fine them? What stops the person from using 1 of the 8448744 possible available excuses/loopholes? Or not having ID? Are the police going to escort them home so that they can get the ID?

Even if they announce this measure, I don't think they have any idea how to properly enforce it.

It sounds to me like another impractical, silly, arbitrary measure.
 

realfrankturner

Well-known Member

Well, workers aren't refusing, the companies aren't telling them to come back. Not sure London will go back to how it was before again or least for a good while.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member

Well, workers aren't refusing, the companies aren't telling them to come back. Not sure London will go back to how it was before again or least for a good while.
Lovely 😊 Really nice to see. And why not when it’s not necessary to be at work in person on location.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
If this is really being discussed as a possibility, then any small level of confidence I had in this government has completely gone. I don't mind wearing a mask, but I worry this may be the tip of the ice berg as regards the gradual withdrawal of civil liberties. Any suggestion of healthy over 50s having to stay at home will confirm my concerns.
The article talks of:
"...those aged between 50 and 70 given 'personalised risk ratings'," So I would hope they are assessing whether people may be vulnerable pretty much as before, but extending the range down. Just as they are offering the flu jab to any one over 50.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
The handing of Coronavirus contracts to companies with questionable experience in providing personal protective equipment in health settings continues

‘Another Strange Trio of PPE Contracts Emerge’


‘The Government’s NHS procurement splurge is continuing apace, while doubts continue to be raised about the suitability of some private sector suppliers.

Billions of pounds of taxpayer cash is being spent in a desperate attempt by the Government to replenish stocks of personal protective equipment (PPE) that are being consumed during the Coronavirus crisis.
Using a European loophole – designed for emergencies – the Government has been able to award these huge contracts without competition. In the past week, a new tranche of deals have been published by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC), and three in particular might raise questions for the Government’

Another Strange Trio of PPE Contracts Emerge – Byline Times
 

Nick74

Well-known Member

Well, workers aren't refusing, the companies aren't telling them to come back. Not sure London will go back to how it was before again or least for a good while.
Mail editors are great at creating scapegoats, particularly through headlines.

Taking their cue from Tory MP Craig Whittaker, they're currently blaming spikes in infection on minority communities, with no evidence.

It bears repeating that these same communities were considerably overrepresented among front line workers. From heroes to villains in a matter of weeks, in the Mail's view. I wish this shift in editorial tone had been less depressingly predictable.

With scapegoats lined up on the public health front, who can they blame for the ensuing economic damage? In a word, "shirkers." You can bet most of those "shirkers" will be members of the precariat; those in the most vulnerable situations.

The Mail, ably assisting divide and rule for as long as I can remember.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
This highlights the seriousness of getting an effecting test and trace programme in place. The much promised ‘world beating’ programme is failing to deliver despite billions being allocated. Johnson et al need to get this addressed as a matter of urgency...

‘Current coronavirus testing inadequate to prevent second wave after schools reopen, scientists warn’


‘Current Covid-19 testing and contact tracing is inadequate to prevent a second wave of the virus after schools reopen, scientists have warned’

‘The NHS Test and Trace programme needs to be scaled up in order to reopen schools safely, researchers have warned in a new study.

But one of the authors, Chris Bonell, professor of public health sociology at LSHTM, said the current testing system has "about 50 per cent coverage"

"Our findings suggests that it might be possible (to avoid) a secondary epidemic wave in the UK, if enough people with symptomatic infection can be diagnosed and their contacts traced and effectively isolated," he said’

Current coronavirus testing inadequate to prevent second wave after schools reopen, scientists warn — Evening Standard
 

Ekko Star

Distinguished Member
This highlights the seriousness of getting an effecting test and trace programme in place. The much promised ‘world beating’ programme is failing to deliver despite billions being allocated. Johnson et al need to get this addressed as a matter of urgency...

Current coronavirus testing inadequate to prevent second wave after schools reopen, scientists warn — Evening Standard
There is going to be a lot of tit for tat from Scientists like this in the coming months. There's been a parting of the ways recently so this comes as no surprise.

The Govt is now taking it's own lead and the Scientists don't like it.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
There is going to be a lot of tit for tat from Scientists like this in the coming months. There's been a parting of the ways recently so this comes as no surprise.

The Govt is now taking it's own lead and the Scientists don't like it.
What does that even mean 'the government is taking it's own lead' ? After months of telling the public, it's being 'led by science' and Johnson promising the 'world-beating' test and trace programme, somehow the scientists are at fault?

The simple fact is, Johnson et al have not taken this pandemic seriously enough, they were slow to react and have proven to have no coherent plan to address this pandemic. They've wasted precious time and billions of taxpayers money on an ill-fated testing programme that is clearly not delivering.

Theses scientists have pointed out if this level of testing is not significantly increased there is a major risk towards the end of this year when the schools open up. Anyone, that listened to Dr David Nabarro (WHO special envoy on Covid19) on BBC R4 Today programme this morning would have heard him say this virus is not going away, it needs to be addressed and apathy (both from the public and government) is not an option!
 

Ekko Star

Distinguished Member
The simple fact is, Johnson et al have not taken this pandemic seriously enough, they were slow to react and have proven to have no coherent plan to address this pandemic. They've wasted precious time and billions of taxpayers money on an ill-fated testing programme that is clearly not delivering.

Theses scientists have pointed out if this level of testing is not significantly increased there is a major risk towards the end of this year when the schools open up. Anyone, that listened to Dr David Nabarro (WHO special envoy on Covid19) on BBC R4 Today programme this morning would have heard him say this virus is not going away, it needs to be addressed and apathy (both from the public and government) is not an option!
That's not really factual and far too simplistic a view TBH. The whole world is taking it very seriously and no one is coping particularly well at dealing with this pandemic.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
That's not really factual and far too simplistic a view TBH. The whole world is taking it very seriously and no one is coping particularly well at dealing with this pandemic.
What is not factual? The 'world-beating' testing programme not delivering or the fact the UK has one of the highest death rates in the world?
 

Ekko Star

Distinguished Member
The simple fact is, Johnson et al have not taken this pandemic seriously enough
You're simple fact is stating Boris Johnson and the Government have not taken this pandemic seriously enough. That's as you stated your simple 'fact'. Unfortunately it's a bit too simple.

Throwaway partisan comments like that carry little weight or meaning.

You do realise the Prime Minister himself was struck down with this illness and spent time in intensive care in a life/death situation ? I doubt anyone in his position would be taking this pandemic other than very seriously both personally and for the country.

The economy is liable to collapse and there are many global factors at play and to consider. Suggesting anything like this is simple or revolves around a simple fact is frankly silly.

This government was voted unanimously into power with a majority. I highly doubt any other party would be doing any better right now and the electorate unequivocally voted against them anyway. Corbyn and Swinson got told a straightforward 'no thanks' and were binned off pronto. Both respective parties were left in disarray and can hardly be considered anything other than 'very weak' opposition since.

No country or government in the world has defeated this virus and every country is having to deal with it their own way. There is nothing simple at play for anyone.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
You're simple fact is stating Boris Johnson and the Government have not taken this pandemic seriously enough. That's as you stated your simple 'fact'. Unfortunately it's a bit too simple.

Throwaway partisan comments like that carry little weight or meaning.

You do realise the Prime Minister himself was struck down with this illness and spent time in intensive care in a life/death situation ? I doubt anyone in his position would be taking this pandemic other than very seriously both personally and for the country.

The economy is liable to collapse and there are many global factors at play and to consider. Suggesting anything like this is simple or revolves around a simple fact is frankly silly.

This government was voted unanimously into power with a majority. I highly doubt any other party would be doing any better right now and the electorate unequivocally voted against them anyway. Corbyn and Swinson got told a straightforward 'no thanks' and were binned off pronto. Both respective parties were left in disarray and can hardly be considered anything other than 'very weak' opposition since.

No country or government in the world has defeated this virus and every country is having to deal with it their own way. There is nothing simple at play for anyone.
Oh dear, I was expecting something more substantial than just some rhetoric.

It’s interesting you have nothing to say about the UK having one of the highest death rates in the world? Nor do you have anything to explain why the ‘world beating’ test and trace programme is failing? There is a underlying reason for these failures and it’s leadership. You can delude yourself to think it’s not but, the facts are plain to see.

The original point incase you missed it, was that if we don’t improve the test and trace programme significantly then we will suffer even more. The UK has already got one of the highest excess deaths in the world, it can’t afford to ignore this scientific advice. Even though some think it’s somehow ‘partisan’ to highlight these major failures in government.

Some more reading for you...

‘UK risks twice-as-big second COVID wave without better testing, study finds’

"However, we also predict that in the absence of sufficiently broad test–trace–isolate coverage, reopening of schools combined with accompanied reopening of society across all scenarios might induce a second COVID-19 wave," said the study, published in The Lancet Child and Adolescent Health’

 

Ekko Star

Distinguished Member
Oh dear, I was expecting something more substantial than just some rhetoric.

It’s interesting you have nothing to say about the UK having one of the highest death rates in the world? Nor do you have anything to explain why the ‘world beating’ test and trace programme is failing? There is a underlying reason for these failures and it’s leadership. You can delude yourself to think it’s not but, the facts are plain to see.
I kept it simple in tune with your original statements.

Unfortunately I have no interest in partisan debate. It kind of colours people's judgements and motives at times such as the present.

All the best
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
I kept it simple in tune with your original statements.

Unfortunately I have no interest in partisan debate. It kind of colours people's judgements and motives at times such as the present.

All the best
OK enjoy your ‘rose tinted’ view for as long as it lasts. Meanwhile, some of us are deeply worried about the current state of the UK’s response to this pandemic and concerned about what the scientists are predicting for the coming months.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
Local authorities in eight of the 10 worst-hit areas in England have launched (or are planning) to launch local versions of the government’s ‘world beating’ test-and-trace programme...

‘English councils with highest Covid rates launch own test-and-trace systems‘

‘Local authorities plug holes in government’s system, with some reaching 98-100% of people’

‘Councils with the highest Covid infection rates in England have launched their own contact-tracing operations to plug holes in the “world-beating” £10bn government system, with some reaching 98-100% of people who fell through the gaps’

English councils with highest Covid rates launch own test-and-trace systems
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Local authorities in eight of the 10 worst-hit areas in England have launched (or are planning) to launch local versions of the government’s ‘world beating’ test-and-trace programme...

‘English councils with highest Covid rates launch own test-and-trace systems‘

‘Local authorities plug holes in government’s system, with some reaching 98-100% of people’

‘Councils with the highest Covid infection rates in England have launched their own contact-tracing operations to plug holes in the “world-beating” £10bn government system, with some reaching 98-100% of people who fell through the gaps’

English councils with highest Covid rates launch own test-and-trace systems
Given how important we're being told test and trace is going to be come September, I'm glad these councils are showing some initiative and taking matters into their own hands.

It should be abundantly clear to everyone now that the government isn't up to this task. They've been absolutely shambolic with this whole testing and tracing debacle. From day one.
 

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