Coronavirus - do you trust the UK Government to make the right decisions ?

Coronavirus - do you trust the UK government to make the right decisions?

  • Yes

    Votes: 101 32.9%
  • No

    Votes: 206 67.1%

  • Total voters
    307

IronGiant

Moderator
It's nuts that central and local government aren't working closely together.
 
I fail to see what the problem is with the guidance. Leicester is clearly gone back, so people from that area have a choice; deal with it like an adult, or stay like that for longer, and longer and longer and longer. Always find it funny when those who are from there say they can’t do it, yet those saying that, are doing it themselves.

We still operate at alert level, nobody is telling us what to do or how to do it. Just seems the sensible thing to do.
 
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Sammyez

Well-known Member
The government needs to explain why it’s Covid tracker has omitted 90% of recent cases such as those in Leicester?

’Hundreds of local authorities missing vital coronavirus testing data’


’The vast majority of new coronaviruscases are being left out of public data on local outbreaks, figures suggest...

The government is using localised data to decide when lockdown measures need to be reintroduced in specific areas, as occurred in Leicester on Monday night.

But the government’s publicly-accessible Covid tracker omitted more than 90 per cent of the city’s most recent cases, according to data obtained by the Leicester Mercury’

Hundreds of local authorities missing vital coronavirus testing data — Metro
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
The government needs to explain why it’s Covid tracker has omitted 90% of recent cases such as those in Leicester?
The government doesn't believe that the number of people tested is a relevant or useful piece of information... By Hancock's logic 100k tests carried out is a more relevant statistic even if those 100k tests are carried out on the same 10 people. This is insanity.

 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
The government doesn't believe that the number of people tested is a relevant or useful piece of information... By Hancock's logic 100k tests carried out is a more relevant statistic even if those 100k tests are carried out on the same 10 people. This is insanity.

The logic is hard to follow? I’m sure someone will try and explain why this is plausible?

I shared this recently but it appears more relevant now than ever!
B5758BA6-49ED-47E1-95E2-EA147A9F2A0E.png
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
I wish I could say I was shocked, but I'm not.

Full pillar 1+2 data is being shared w/ local public health bodies, so some health officials know what’s going on in different bits of the country, but this data is not shared with local councils, mayors, MPs, who’ve had to ask for it & wait weeks. Useless in fast-moving pandemic.

The rest of the public, whether it’s school governors, local business owners or journalists writing about the presence or absence of new outbreaks, are being fed data that is ultimately garbage, and the people publishing that data know it.


It's a wonder we even know what day it is to be honest.
Johnson at PMQs today was asked why Pillar 2 data was not shared with local authorities for 11 days as in Leicester’s case? He just lied by stating all data has been shared with local authorities despite him being told categorically this was not the case. How can anyone trust this liar?
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Johnson at PMQs today was asked why Pillar 2 data was not shared with local authorities for 11 days as in Leicester’s case? He just lied by stating all data has been shared with local authorities despite him being told categorically this was not the case. How can anyone trust this liar?
It doesn't matter, plenty will still trust him regardless. You see it everyday. If people want to remain blind then that is their choice. You can't make everyone see unfortunately.


Posted this too elsewhere but I realise it's actually more relevant here. I'm well aware of the political leaning of the author, but the sentiment I agree with. It's all now an inconvenience and too much hard work. All disguised and packaged as "we're getting on top of it".

 
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iangreasby

Well-known Member
The BBC website today confirms why the Leicester lock down was extended. Sorry, I can't find a way of pasting the relevant bit without the entire article showing. In essence, they had 140.2 positive tests per 100,000 for the week ended 21st June. This includes both pillar 1 and 2 tests. The next highest was Bradford at 69.4. Do we know how many pillar 2 tests were carried out as it appears Leicester would have been deemed ok if it was just based on pillar 1. I'm not sure what prompts a pillar 2 test (can anyone have one?), but if only a few of these were carried out then this will give a distorted result. If you are locking down a city based on a very small sample of pillar 2 tests, then surely that can't be fair.
 

mcbainne

Distinguished Member
Johnson at PMQs today was asked why Pillar 2 data was not shared with local authorities for 11 days as in Leicester’s case? He just lied by stating all data has been shared with local authorities despite him being told categorically this was not the case. How can anyone trust this liar?
There could have been an easy way to streamline the process, bypass WM bureaucracy and ensure the positive test result data got to PHE and the local authorities but they didn't think to write it into the contract with Deloitte

 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
There could have been an easy way to streamline the process, bypass WM bureaucracy and ensure the positive test result data got to PHE and the local authorities but they didn't think to write it into the contract with Deloitte

You couldn’t make this level of ineptitude up if you tried? I think Johnson have got a bet with Trump on who can create the most havoc through their incompetence? Instead of owning up to the mistakes they ‘double down’ and pretend they haven’t messed up. Today’s PMQs was a good example.
 

acatweasel

Well-known Member
I thought I had become inured to the tsunami of ineptitude and falsehoods from our govt, but this latest episode has hit me hard. I almost wonder if this was not a 'simple' oversight, but very much by design?
They aren't clever enough to work out a conspiracy like that. They are reacting to everything as it happens.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Not just based on this tweet, but it seems since Johnson and his usual guff earlier at PMQ's, yet another unfortunate pattern is emerging.


Maybe it was on Newsnight but somewhere a few weeks back I saw a report about this, however I admit to not taking a great deal of notice of it at the time.
 

Nick74

Well-known Member
I thought I had become inured to the tsunami of ineptitude and falsehoods from our govt, but this latest episode has hit me hard. I almost wonder if this was not a 'simple' oversight, but very much by design?
I'm back at work now, so have less time to pay attention. Still, watching footage of today's PMQs made me angry.

Johnson smirked through his exchanges. The virus is still out there. People are still dying, while our prime minister smirks in response to important questions. As though nothing serious is happening. As if we can make light of so many excess deaths.

He only wants the fun stuff and the adulation. Not the responsibility that comes with leadership. To use a metaphor, Johnson's leading us into no man's land, under heavy gunfire, then stopping midway to do the conga.

I don't want to follow a man like that into battle. If forced into battle I want a leader to who appreciates that our lives are in his hands. A leader that understands the gravity of the situation.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
I'm back at work now, so have less time to pay attention. Still, watching footage of today's PMQs made me angry.

Johnson smirked through his exchanges. The virus is still out there. People are still dying, while our prime minister smirks in response to important questions. As though nothing serious is happening. As if we can make light of so many excess deaths.

He only wants the fun stuff and the adulation. Not the responsibility that comes with leadership. To use a metaphor, Johnson's leading us into no man's land, under heavy gunfire, then stopping midway to do the conga.

I don't want to follow a man like that into battle. If forced into battle I want a leader to who appreciates that our lives are in his hands. A leader that understands the gravity of the situation.
See my post above. It's the next phase we've moved into. Hopefully we don't go the same way as over the pond, and hopefully most people aren't stupid enough to fall for the idea that we're out of the woods.

Although I do fear the morning after the night before (Sunday), many people will think the virus has magically disappeared because they're able to get smashed again.
 

Nick74

Well-known Member
See my post above. It's the next phase we've moved into. Hopefully we don't go the same way as over the pond, and hopefully most people aren't stupid enough to fall for the idea that we're out of the woods.

Although I do fear the morning after the night before (Sunday), many people will think the virus has magically disappeared because they're able to get smashed again.
On the subject of data, or more specifically the lack of data where it's needed, it's hard to tell if this is ineptitude on the government's part, or deliberate.

If we think back several months (to a time when deaths outside hospital weren't reported, yet it was apparent we weren't getting anything close to the full picture), my heavy suspicion was that Johnson's government hoped to suppress the numbers for as long as possible. Limiting short term reputational damage became the focus. Even though they understood the illusion couldn't hold for long.

All that mattered was how things looked in the moment. They'd worry about the fallout later. If they had to. If they were lucky, people would forget. This government has lived day to day since this crisis began. There is no long term plan. Or even a middle term plan.

Why do I say all of this? Keeping the numbers in Leicester under wraps, if only for a short while, kept the government's poor handling of easing lockdown measures off the front pages for a week. Doing so hid the reality that this virus is no less virulent or dangerous.

Yet Johnson encouraged us to "show some guts" and get back out there. It was the wrong signal from a prime minister who's taken a cavalier approach to public health.

There ends the mini-essay.
 

Ekko Star

Distinguished Member
Given the amount of the job losses and redundancies now being announced daily.

It seems this is fast becoming the bitter pill we now have to swallow to try get over the hangover of Covid-19

My fear is that the furlough scheme won't/hasn't worked. It has simply postponed the inevitable. The nation has built up a huge debt to support the scheme and the end result may end up being the majority of those people are left jobless anyway

Very uncertain times and I can't see what the Government can do anything to arrest the situation
 
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Sammyez

Well-known Member
On the subject of data, or more specifically the lack of data where it's needed, it's hard to tell if this is ineptitude on the government's part, or deliberate.

If we think back several months (to a time when deaths outside hospital weren't reported, yet it was apparent we weren't getting anything close to the full picture), my heavy suspicion was that Johnson's government hoped to suppress the numbers for as long as possible. Limiting short term reputational damage became the focus. Even though they understood the illusion couldn't hold for long.

All that mattered was how things looked in the moment. They'd worry about the fallout later. If they had to. If they were lucky, people would forget. This government has lived day to day since this crisis began. There is no long term plan. Or even a middle term plan.

Why do I say all of this? Keeping the numbers in Leicester under wraps, if only for a short while, kept the government's poor handling of easing lockdown measures off the front pages for a week. Doing so hid the reality that this virus is no less virulent or dangerous.

Yet Johnson encouraged us to "show some guts" and get back out there. It was the wrong signal from a prime minister who's taken a cavalier approach to public health.

There ends the mini-essay.
Indeed, Johnson is so bold as to lie in the Commons, today’s PMQs is a good example. This is disgraceful behaviour and a brazen disrespect for those who have suffered needlessly as result of his government’s ineptitude...

‘Boris Johnson Accused Of Lying About Coronavirus Test Data After Leicester's 'Lost Week'


Boris Johnson insists councils are getting local coronavirus testing data – but has been accused of lying amid after it emerged Leicester had to wait days for the numbers before being locked down

PM Accused Of Lying About Covid-19 Test Data After Leicester's 'Lost Week' — HuffPost UK
 

iangreasby

Well-known Member
This is a post from today on the AVS forums, the thread is titled "When does the covid crisis end?". I agree that we are making headway against the virus, due to a combination of an increasing level of herd immunity (albeit not the intended policy) and the virus becoming weaker (although not less contagious). I actually believe that this is happening in spite of the lock down, not because of it. If anything, the lock downs are inhibiting the development of our immunity to the virus. Using the "whack a mole" analogy, no matter how many you whack, another one will appear somewhere else.

The only politics involved are the politics of fear.

With 100x more testing and people interacting socially, did you expect less positive cases? If even a few people still had the virus when the lockdowns ended, did you think it was never going to be passed along again to those not yet infected?

Lockdown was a technique used to prevent hospitals from being overrun, plain and simple. In the majority of the 50 states, it was unnecessary, the hospitals never got anywhere close to max capacity, and the majority laid a bunch of employees off.

Think critically. If more people than ever are getting it, but severe cases and deaths continue to drop, that means either the strain is weakening or we are developing immunity.

The country will not be shutting down again, doesn’t matter how much some of us want to focus on negative stories. At least half the country will not be interested in taking a vaccine - if one is ever developed - no matter how much some try to guilt trip.

So the answer to the thread title question remains the same - when does the crisis end? When we let go of the fear.
 

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