Coronavirus - do you trust the UK Government to make the right decisions ?

Coronavirus - do you trust the UK government to make the right decisions?

  • Yes

    Votes: 101 32.5%
  • No

    Votes: 210 67.5%

  • Total voters
    311

Sammyez

Well-known Member
Clearly, the people of Leicester have to do their part.
What are you implying? Yes ofcourse, people need to do their part! As do the government.

So where is the ‘Whack a Mole Strategy’ the Boris promised for such outbreaks?

Where is the full BAME report with the recommendations? ie the missing 66 pages?

Where is the ‘World class’ contact tracing system that was promised for May?

Perhaps your finger pointing needs to be redirected.
 

maddy

Well-known Member
Err... isn't the point that Leicester has been identified as needing to be treated specially a sign that the "Whack a Mole" is working?
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
Is that a problem?
It's problematic as some suburbs 'blur' from one to another (ie. no real line of differentiation) but, the key issue is that people are free to travel around. There is no clarity on what a 'lockdown is' as only the non-essential businesses are closed. There are still as many vehicles moving around.
Clearly, some areas have a 'peak' and these need a plan of action but, nothing from the government or the council. Therefore, if nothing changes during this period, I cannot see what will be the impact?
 

iangreasby

Well-known Member
It's problematic as some suburbs 'blur' from one to another (ie. no real line of differentiation) but, the key issue is that people are free to travel around. There is no clarity on what a 'lockdown is' as only the non-essential businesses are closed. There are still as many vehicles moving around.
Clearly, some areas have a 'peak' and these need a plan of action but, nothing from the government or the council. Therefore, if nothing changes during this period, I cannot see what will be the impact?
If they are following the guidelines then people should not be driving for non-essential journeys.

What are the lockdown rules in Leicester?
  • All non-essential shops will close from Tuesday, which Mr Hancock said will be enforced by law this week
  • Schools will close from Thursday and will not reopen until next term. However, they will stay open for vulnerable children and children of critical workers
  • People should avoid all but essential travel to, from, and within Leicester and should "stay at home as much as you can"
  • The planned easing of some restrictions in England on Saturday will not go ahead in Leicester. This means restaurants, pubs, cafes, hairdressers and cinemas will stay closed
  • The relaxation of shielding measures on 6 July - which will allow the most clinical-vulnerable to spend more time outside - will not go ahead in the city
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
If they are following the guidelines then people should not be driving for non-essential journeys.

What are the lockdown rules in Leicester?
  • All non-essential shops will close from Tuesday, which Mr Hancock said will be enforced by law this week
  • Schools will close from Thursday and will not reopen until next term. However, they will stay open for vulnerable children and children of critical workers
  • People should avoid all but essential travel to, from, and within Leicester and should "stay at home as much as you can"
  • The planned easing of some restrictions in England on Saturday will not go ahead in Leicester. This means restaurants, pubs, cafes, hairdressers and cinemas will stay closed
  • The relaxation of shielding measures on 6 July - which will allow the most clinical-vulnerable to spend more time outside - will not go ahead in the city
There are issues that need to be addressed with regards to local lockdowns. The 11-day delay will not have helped the situation nor will the lack of comprehesive testing...

'Infectious diseases expert Dr Bharat Pankhania told Sky News: "If the outbreaks are managed locally with all the local data to hand as well as a local outbreak committee with input from both local and national centres, the local experts will have a much earlier and thus timely sense of which way the outbreak is going and thus act in a much faster and timely manner.

"Our current system of centralised control results in a delay, a lack of precision and timeliness to act fast."

'Dr Pankhania said shutdowns at a local or regional level will be most effective when extensive local testing and tracing practices are in place'

He continued: "So far we haven't even had the capacity to test extensively, we are testing in a partial manner only. On the same measures, our centralised contact tracing service is not as precise, flexible, and run by local experts who know of the nuances and how to get the best out of a case. The current contact tracing system relies on following algorithms and it lacks that finesse.

"So our lockdown is only a lockdown, but it isn't lockdown plus plus, which is testing and tracing whilst locked down."

 

Dr Force

Distinguished Member
I live in Leicester and fall just outside the lockdown border by 3 miles...surrounding us is a small town, also excluded by the lockdown with shops, pubs and restaurants.....is this statement not the most stupid thing ever written;-

  • People should avoid all but essential travel to, from, and within Leicester and should "stay at home as much as you can"
Its not a rule, it’s guidance, there is absolutely nothing stopping those from infected areas coming to drink, eat and shop in other areas literally a few miles away....how on Earth is that supposed to be containing?

To be honest, this whole thing is turning in to an experimental circus, full of spin, deceit and self gain.....health is no longer the driving force on decision making, no matter what we are being told.

Hence, I’m staying in, not visiting pubs, shops or restaurants......because I do not trust the advice or the guidance and when we have things like second spikes, it’s all done in a haphazard way, with little thought for the local people or economy......Woolly decision making, confused society, coupled with increased poverty....wow the future looks pretty dreadful.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
As I read it, you should not leave your small town to visit Leicester and the people of Leicester shouldn't visit your small town. You just have to rely on the good people of Leicestershire to follow the guidelines.
 

sebbykin

Distinguished Member
As I read it, you should not leave your small town to visit Leicester and the people of Leicester shouldn't visit your small town. You just have to rely on the good people of Leicestershire to follow the guidelines.
Or, is it best to bring in the army ?
I think I'd rather follow the guidelines and stay at home.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
I’m sure restricting movement will have some effect. However, as the mayor of Leicester has summarised:

"Locking down a city doesn't necessarily deal with those parts of the city, those neighbourhoods in the city, or those communities in the city where they may be specific and very real places where the virus is being transmitted."

Having weeks of delay in getting data from a centralised system is not helpful nor is the lack of a comprehensive contact tracing programme.

Also, I’m sure the government will get round to publishing the full BAME report with the missing 69 pages including the recommendations?

Leicester 'struggled for weeks' to get data about positive tests, says city's mayor — LBC News
 

mcbainne

Distinguished Member
Quite incredible thread showing the government have been sitting on data showing the true state of the increase of cases in Leicester. Only Tier 1 test results in the public domain but the Tier 2 results showing a 90% increase

It's not whack a mole when you hide the fact the mole's heads up then wait a week to hit it

1593537169677.png


 
Last edited:

richp007

Distinguished Member
I wish I could say I was shocked, but I'm not.

Full pillar 1+2 data is being shared w/ local public health bodies, so some health officials know what’s going on in different bits of the country, but this data is not shared with local councils, mayors, MPs, who’ve had to ask for it & wait weeks. Useless in fast-moving pandemic.

The rest of the public, whether it’s school governors, local business owners or journalists writing about the presence or absence of new outbreaks, are being fed data that is ultimately garbage, and the people publishing that data know it.


It's a wonder we even know what day it is to be honest.
 

Dr Force

Distinguished Member
As I read it, you should not leave your small town to visit Leicester and the people of Leicester shouldn't visit your small town. You just have to rely on the good people of Leicestershire to follow the guidelines.
The reason Leicester is in a mess is the very fact people have been ignoring the guidelines, do we seriously think this is going to change?

Or, is it best to bring in the army ?
I think I'd rather follow the guidelines and stay at home.
you are sensible enough to do just that, the virus is not spread by sensible people following the guidelines. Again, this new lockdown is not going to suddenly change that, so there is a valid argument to have it policed much better locally and if that means help from the army so be it.

why should my safety be compromised by people flouting the guidelines with little or no recourse?
 

mcbainne

Distinguished Member
I wish I could say I was shocked, but I'm not.

Full pillar 1+2 data is being shared w/ local public health bodies, so some health officials know what’s going on in different bits of the country, but this data is not shared with local councils, mayors, MPs, who’ve had to ask for it & wait weeks. Useless in fast-moving pandemic.

The rest of the public, whether it’s school governors, local business owners or journalists writing about the presence or absence of new outbreaks, are being fed data that is ultimately garbage, and the people publishing that data know it.


It's a wonder we even know what day it is to be honest.
It's a conscious decision by senior government to conceal the true state of the spread of the virus in the country, what other reason is there for withholding the data? The truth twisters post was frighteningly close to the mark

Did you see Hancocks BBC interview saying that the numbers of people being tested was meaningless?

 

richp007

Distinguished Member
It's a conscious decision by senior government to conceal the true state of the spread of the virus in the country, what other reason is there for withholding the data? The truth twisters post was frighteningly close to the mark

Did you see Hancocks BBC interview saying that the numbers of people being tested was meaningless?

Yeah but if you test less people you have less cases :laugh: o_O

Beginning to feel a little like the US thinking over here....

We've moved on from delay and contain, to disregard and dismiss.
 

Nick74

Well-known Member
I live in Leicester and fall just outside the lockdown border by 3 miles...surrounding us is a small town, also excluded by the lockdown with shops, pubs and restaurants.....is this statement not the most stupid thing ever written;-

  • People should avoid all but essential travel to, from, and within Leicester and should "stay at home as much as you can"
Its not a rule, it’s guidance, there is absolutely nothing stopping those from infected areas coming to drink, eat and shop in other areas literally a few miles away....how on Earth is that supposed to be containing?

To be honest, this whole thing is turning in to an experimental circus, full of spin, deceit and self gain.....health is no longer the driving force on decision making, no matter what we are being told.

Hence, I’m staying in, not visiting pubs, shops or restaurants......because I do not trust the advice or the guidance and when we have things like second spikes, it’s all done in a haphazard way, with little thought for the local people or economy......Woolly decision making, confused society, coupled with increased poverty....wow the future looks pretty dreadful.
If you're looking to the government for coherent instruction, you'll be waiting for a long time. This is particularly strange when you consider that messaging is supposedly this government's strong point.

The risks are arguably greater now than four to six weeks ago. Not that we'd know this given the lack of government clarity.

I'm not looking to Johnson and Cummings. The government response to this pandemic has been catastrophic. I'm taking the same precautions I've taken throughout this crisis. Businesses and the public were ahead of government when we locked down. They took action while the government sat on its hands. We'll have to take the lead again.
 

sebbykin

Distinguished Member
If we reach a situation where the army are on the streets, then we are basically fudged anyway.
I don't see it like that. If having the army help the police and that makes 10,20 or 50% of the people flouting the guidelines think again isn't that a good thing?
 

iangreasby

Well-known Member
I don't see it like that. If having the army help the police and that makes 10,20 or 50% of the people flouting the guidelines think again isn't that a good thing?
In theory, yes. But if we get to that stage (God forbid), then we will probably have had mass rioting by then. Bringing in the army should be, and is, an absolute last resort in a country such as ours. If we reach that point then things have gone very badly wrong.
 

maddy

Well-known Member
Quite incredible thread showing the government have been sitting on data showing the true state of the increase of cases in Leicester. Only Tier 1 test results in the public domain but the Tier 2 results showing a 90% increase

It's not whack a mole when you hide the fact the mole's heads up then wait 2 weeks to hit it
PHE publish this info weekly in a spreadsheet, with summary and detailed PDF reports:


Leicester is in there, running at 140 cases/100,000 combined Pillar 1 and 2 for w/e 25th June.
 

kenshingintoki

Well-known Member
The lockdown regarding Leicster is all on good faith with the general public, which is what this lockdown has always been geared towards.

Provide vague gudiance and have faith in the British public to make sensible decisions with the limited ammount of information the government provides.

*looks at the pictures from the beaches over the weekend*

"Great, so this is the second wave?"
 

mcbainne

Distinguished Member
PHE publish this info weekly in a spreadsheet, with summary and detailed PDF reports:


Leicester is in there, running at 140 cases/100,000 combined Pillar 1 and 2 for w/e 25th June.
Waiting a week for a lovely coloured spreadsheet during a rapidly evolving health emergency doesn't really cut it tho does it?

Certainly the major doesn't think so:

This gap in the subnational and regional data has been cited by local political leaders and health officials in Leicester as one reason for a delay in locking down the east Midlands city, where virus cases have spiked. “For weeks we have been trying to get information about the level of testing in the city and the results of that testing in the city,” Peter Soulsby, mayor of Leicester, told the BBC on Tuesday

While PHE releases full data for England’s nine main regions with a two-week delay, the areas are too big to give local authorities a useful picture of the situation in their communities.

Leicester city council’s public health department only received the elevated infection numbers cited by Mr Hancock last Thursday. They could not compare with places elsewhere because the so-called pillar 2 figures are only made available to officials in their own local authority area if they have signed the Data Protection Act. “I would wish that they had shared that [data] with us right from the start,” said Sir Peter, Leicester’s mayor. “And I wish they had taken a more speedy decision rather than leaving it 11 days. That's a long gap and a long time for the virus to spread.”
 

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