Coronavirus - do you trust the UK Government to make the right decisions ?

Coronavirus - do you trust the UK government to make the right decisions?

  • Yes

    Votes: 101 32.9%
  • No

    Votes: 206 67.1%

  • Total voters
    307

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
When will the UK government get the message?

‘WHO warns coronavirus pandemic is speeding up as countries ease lockdown rules: The worst is yet to come'

"Although many countries have made some progress, globally, the pandemic is actually speeding up," WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus

"The single most important intervention is ... tracing and quarantine contacts," he said. "Six months since the virus started, it could be like a broken record to say exactly the same thing, but the same thing works. Test, test, isolate, quarantine cases."

"The worst is yet to come" as many nations and world leaders remain divided on how to combat the virus, Tedros said. "I'm sorry to say that, but with this kind of environment and condition, we fear the worst. And that's why we have to bring our acts together and fight this dangerous virus together."

WHO warns pandemic is speeding up: “The worst is yet to come” — CNBC
Rather selective quoting of the piece.
'More than 60% of daily new cases came from countries in the Americas'
The virus is moving around the globe.

As cases in the U.S. have continued to increase, the average age of patients has declined, according to state officials in Florida, Texas and elsewhere. Some state officials say that’s why Covid-19 deaths have dropped even as cases surge since the virus is more fatal in older populations.

Infections will rise, it's respiratory illness with just the right efficacy to live within it's host (Humans). We cannot stop it and control measure do not kill it. If it's sweeping through the populous stats lead us to believe most will be asymptomatic. It's the vulnerable that need to be careful.
If the number of younger healthy people who are hospitalised and begin dying rises then the data is incorrect or the virus has mutated.

Control measures damage other concerns, re health, education and economic.

The only other thing spreading faster than the virus is societal induced panic via misleading information.
 
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Sammyez

Well-known Member
Rather selective quoting of the piece.
'More than 60% of daily new cases came from countries in the Americas'
The virus is moving around the globe.

As cases in the U.S. have continued to increase, the average age of patients has declined, according to state officials in Florida, Texas and elsewhere. Some state officials say that’s why Covid-19 deaths have dropped even as cases surge since the virus is more fatal in older populations.

Infections will rise, it's respiratory illness with just the right efficacy to live within it's host (Humans). We cannot stop it and control measure do not kill it. If it's sweeping through the populous stats lead us to believe most will be asymptomatic. It's the vulnerable that need to be careful.
If the number of younger healthy people are hospitalised and begin dying then the data is incorrect or the virus has mutated.

Control measures damage other concerns, re health, education and economic.

The only other thing spreading faster than the virus is societal induced panic via misleading information.
No one is selectively quoting, I highlighted the areas that directly affect the UK so, I suggest you get your facts right (the full article link was provided so read it at your leisure)

The point in case you missed it was this government still doesn’t have a comprehensive track and trace programme despite promises of a ‘world beating’ system. The WHO have reiterated that this the single most important intervention;

"The single most important intervention is ... tracing and quarantine contacts," he said. "Six months since the virus started, it could be like a broken record to say exactly the same thing, but the same thing works. Test, test, isolate, quarantine cases." WHO
 

password1

Well-known Member
The Leicester situation proves that lock downs don't work. We have had over 12 weeks of this and I'm sure the majority of people in Leicester have adhered to the guidelines, yet new infections have arisen. The virus cannot be eradicated. It's inevitable that we are going to see similar spikes of new infections in towns and cities around the country. The precedent has now been set and so we are heading for more lock down reversals. What do we do now, keep up the lock down policy until a vaccine arrives? This could go on for several years unless we take a bolder approach.
it only proves it doesn't work if you are certain everyone followed the rules.

people need to be alert, only make essential journies and take the pandemic more seriously. some people never adhered to the rules and it only takes a small number of people to spread the virus exponentially.
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
No one is selectively quoting, I highlighted the areas that directly affect the UK so, I suggest you get your facts right (the full article link was provided so read it at your leisure)

The point in case you missed it was this government still doesn’t have a comprehensive track and trace programme despite promises of a ‘world beating’ system. The WHO have reiterated that this the single most important intervention;

"The single most important intervention is ... tracing and quarantine contacts," he said. "Six months since the virus started, it could be like a broken record to say exactly the same thing, but the same thing works. Test, test, isolate, quarantine cases." WHO
Selective quoting is happening all the time from all sources. Not specifically yourself.
I've just done the same, to present a different narrative.

Information is now coming to light the virus is being discovered back in early part of 2019 in some areas. So a little longer than 6 months.
 

GarryF

Well-known Member
Can't believe we're still arguing about the effectiveness of lockdown. Necessity etc.
I think the Jury is out on that one, we followed the path of herd immunity, infect enough people to stay within NHS capacity and stay there until it goes away.

We then switched to suppression very late suffering the death toll of the first policy, but also the economic impact of the second. It's not theory, just go look at Sweden,
Sweden: Will COVID-19 Economics be Different?

It looks like in first quarter Sweden out performed UK by 2.5%, I expect they will substantially out perform most of EU 2nd quarter.

1593503947942.png

This article implies the 2008 recession caused a 6% drop in GDP, and resulted in around 130,000 extra deaths, so it's plausible that the UK path of sacrificing GDP to reduce C19 death will actually kill far more in the long run. (we're looking at 2-3 times more GDP drop this time round)

Lockdown has a cost in lives, people don't seem to want to accept just how big the cost will be.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
Selective quoting is happening all the time from all sources. Not specifically yourself.
I've just done the same, to present a different narrative.

Information is now coming to light the virus is being discovered back in early part of 2019 in some areas. So a little longer than 6 months.
Clearly, you don’t want to take the point. However don’t infer I’m selectively quoting when I’m not. I’ve made it clear why this section was highlighted.
 

Ruperts slippers

Distinguished Member
I think the Jury is out on that one, we followed the path of herd immunity, infect enough people to stay within NHS capacity and stay there until it goes away.

We then switched to suppression very late suffering the death toll of the first policy, but also the economic impact of the second. It's not theory, just go look at Sweden,
Sweden: Will COVID-19 Economics be Different?

It looks like in first quarter Sweden out performed UK by 2.5%, I expect they will substantially out perform most of EU 2nd quarter.

View attachment 1326503
This article implies the 2008 recession caused a 6% drop in GDP, and resulted in around 130,000 extra deaths, so it's plausible that the UK path of sacrificing GDP to reduce C19 death will actually kill far more in the long run. (we're looking at 2-3 times more GDP drop this time round)

Lockdown has a cost in lives, people don't seem to want to accept just how big the cost will be.
People don't have the comprehension to understand the implications of the control measures. I mentioned posts ago about policy oscillation (Under reaction or over reaction to existential threats).

Personally, i think we've over reacted causing untold damage to the economy as well as societal issues. The riots for example are a manifestation of the frustrations.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
The mayor of Leicester questions why the government didn’t release the data they were asking for weeks? It seems the government are late once again in reacting to this pandemic...

‘Leicester mayor: 'city should have gone into new lockdown earlier'

’Leicester mayor Sir Peter Soulsby has suggested the new lockdown in the city should have been brought in much sooner.
He told BBC Breakfast’
‘The secretary of state [Matt Hancock] announced that he believed there was an outbreak in Leicester the best part of two weeks ago.
Since then, we’ve been struggling to get information from them (the government) about what data they had, what led them to believe there was a particular problem here, and struggling to get them to keep the level of testing in Leicester‘
’He added he had been trying “for weeks” to access data on the level of testing in the city and was only given access last Thursday.
When asked whether a local lockdown should have been brought in earlier, he said‘
’If as seems to be the case, the figures suggest there are issues in the city, I would wish that they had shared that with us right from the start, and I wish they had taken a more speedy decision rather than leaving it 11 days from the secretary of state’s first announcement...
That’s a long gap, and a long time for the virus to spread’

UK coronavirus live: Leicester's local lockdown to be enforced with law changes
 

acatweasel

Well-known Member
Give it a rest. Clearly, you don’t have any interest in acknowledging the issue being raised (ie. the lack of a ‘world beating’ contact tracing programme) Typical response, why am I not surprised!
I think you are right on the contact tracing, with a good system in place we may have had some alternative actions for Leicester. As it stands, the only action available is "more of the same".
The mayor of the town made a good point, sort of "this happened under lockdown, why are sticking with it".
And is it just me, or does anyone else think the government should have been wheeling out a preprepared local plan for issues? Oh they don't have one? Jerks. (Sorry wrong thread).
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
I think you are right on the contact tracing, with a good system in place we may have had some alternative actions for Leicester. As it stands, the only action available is "more of the same".
The mayor of the town made a good point, sort of "this happened under lockdown, why are sticking with it".
And is it just me, or does anyone else think the government should have been wheeling out a preprepared local plan for issues? Oh they don't have one? Jerks. (Sorry wrong thread).
Exactly, where is the ‘Whack a Mole Strategy’ that Boris spoke about? It’s clear this government is inept in managing this pandemic. Relying on spin and rhetoric to make excuses for its incompetence. Despite this, there are plenty who will try and defend the indefensible.
 

BigA1

Active Member
No one is selectively quoting, I highlighted the areas that directly affect the UK so, I suggest you get your facts right (the full article link was provided so read it at your leisure)

The point in case you missed it was this government still doesn’t have a comprehensive track and trace programme despite promises of a ‘world beating’ system. The WHO have reiterated that this the single most important intervention;

"The single most important intervention is ... tracing and quarantine contacts," he said. "Six months since the virus started, it could be like a broken record to say exactly the same thing, but the same thing works. Test, test, isolate, quarantine cases." WHO
And the second one was compulsory facemasks I believe.... and guess what, our goverment also failed to implement and actually dismissed their use almost from the start
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
And the second one was compulsory facemasks I believe.... and guess what, our goverment also failed to implement and actually dismissed their use almost from the start
Indeed. It’s a bit rich to be accused of being selective in quoting the WHO when some on here fail to recognise that the government has been ‘selective’ in taking on advice from WHO with regards to this and a comprehensive testing programme. How ironic?
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
I think the Jury is out on that one, we followed the path of herd immunity, infect enough people to stay within NHS capacity and stay there until it goes away.

We then switched to suppression very late suffering the death toll of the first policy, but also the economic impact of the second. It's not theory, just go look at Sweden,
Sweden: Will COVID-19 Economics be Different?

It looks like in first quarter Sweden out performed UK by 2.5%, I expect they will substantially out perform most of EU 2nd quarter.

View attachment 1326503
This article implies the 2008 recession caused a 6% drop in GDP, and resulted in around 130,000 extra deaths, so it's plausible that the UK path of sacrificing GDP to reduce C19 death will actually kill far more in the long run. (we're looking at 2-3 times more GDP drop this time round)

Lockdown has a cost in lives, people don't seem to want to accept just how big the cost will be.
I agree people don't want to accept how big the cost will be, it's a frightful thought. Difference between not accepting and not understanding though, which is another drum I keep seeing getting tirelessly banged here for no reason.

With regards to the lockdown I guess I can agree this morning the jury is still out, but at this point I don't think it's a worthwhile debate to have without more information. For me it was still necessary or we'd have been in trouble. If only because I don't believe the government back at the beginning of all this were anywhere near decisive enough.

We won't be going back into full lockdown again as we'd be finished, but there should be much less of a problem dealing with localised outbreaks - if we have a plan and the nous to implement it.
 

vu599536

Active Member
There's no clear list of places that have to close in Leicester. Does it include B&Q which closed for a few weeks before opening up again? The tip has closed, which is bizarre. As have to book a slot online then as only garden and general waste is collected (bricks and core are also collected with a charge) and the tip my dad went twice there are five car bays and each have a skip for general and garden waste next to each other.
 

Sammyez

Well-known Member
When is a lockdown not a lockdown? I’ve just been out in Leicester, whilst the nonessential businesses have closed there are still as many vehicles on the road as there was a few days ago.
There appears to be no sign of the ‘Whack a Mole Strategy’ that Johnson said would be rolled out? The mayor is calling for more data and information. Ofcourse, there is no comprehensive contact tracing system.

Moreover, the map released by the council doesn’t cover some parts of Leicester (see attached)

The result will be a extension of restrictions but no real change when these are lifted. Clearly, government has no plan and no idea!

269D682F-FCA6-44CA-8AF5-BBACC9C08F8B.jpeg
 

simonblue

Distinguished Member
I think the Jury is out on that one, we followed the path of herd immunity, infect enough people to stay within NHS capacity and stay there until it goes away.

We then switched to suppression very late suffering the death toll of the first policy, but also the economic impact of the second. It's not theory, just go look at Sweden,
Sweden: Will COVID-19 Economics be Different?

It looks like in first quarter Sweden out performed UK by 2.5%, I expect they will substantially out perform most of EU 2nd quarter.

View attachment 1326503
This article implies the 2008 recession caused a 6% drop in GDP, and resulted in around 130,000 extra deaths, so it's plausible that the UK path of sacrificing GDP to reduce C19 death will actually kill far more in the long run. (we're looking at 2-3 times more GDP drop this time round)

Lockdown has a cost in lives, people don't seem to want to accept just how big the cost will be.
The article also say

Unsurprisingly, all of these theories around recessions and death rates are controversial and widely contested. Some people point out that the austerity policies were a political choice and that different responses to recession could have different results. Others say our worth to society should never be measured by how many widgets we could theoretically make in one working day.

Also we were at are healthier during WWII

 
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domtheone

Distinguished Member

password1

Well-known Member
So the only difference is that non essential shops and schools are closed for a little longer than the rest of the country. pretty much nearly everything else is the same as no lockdown.

Nothing or very little is enforced, the guidelines are still not followed by many people, plenty of people not social distancing, not wearing masks on public transport, etc. just like other cities and absolute anyone can travel in and out of the city freely with no testing, tracking, no questions asked, no road side checks or blocks as its impossible to man every road in and out 24/7.
 

mcbainne

Distinguished Member
The article also say

Unsurprisingly, all of these theories around recessions and death rates are controversial and widely contested. Some people point out that the austerity policies were a political choice and that different responses to recession could have different results. Others say our worth to society should never be measured by how many widgets we could theoretically make in one working day.

Also we were at are healthier during WWII

Yeah doesn't stack up for me either, why pick a path that guarantees extra deaths now as oppose to limiting the death toll immediately saving as many lives as you can then using the tools you have at your disposal to mitigate future deaths during any subsequent downturn

Sweden also predicted to also have a severe recession
 

Tempest

Distinguished Member
Can someone explain how a lock-down works, when, if I'm under this lock-down I am perfectly entitled, and legally able to get in my car, on my bike, or simply walk anywhere in the UK to visit, buy things, go to work, meet someone etc?
Does that really class as me being locked down?
 

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