• New Patreon Tier and Early Access Content available. If you would like to support AVForums, we now have a new Patreon Tier which gives you access to selected news, reviews and articles before they are available to the public. Read more.

Convince my mate to upgrade his PV1

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Been trying to convince my mate to upgrade his PV1 Subwoofer to a Monolith or something similar, so just looking for some opinions on the benefits he'll experience.. I've told him what he'd experience if he does but looking for people to echo my comments without influencing what you say :)
 
Last edited:

Dolus

Well-known Member

paulst10

Distinguished Member

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Just show him the graph - that should do it ;)
He hasn't been trained to read graphs yet :D
But I've explained that going from a small sealed sub to a large ported sub for Movies will be a huge difference
 
Last edited:

fatboy frank

Distinguished Member

paulst10

Distinguished Member

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
I had a PV1 - it was fast, clean and did good mid-bass, but it just didn't go very low.

It was replaced with a Paradigm Seismic 110 which basically wiped the floor with it in every department apart from looks.

I then decided to stop being so over considerate to my neighbours (I live in a flat) and treated myself to a Monitor Audio Gold W15 and it does everything the above two did, plus proper deep scary bass!

That's your USP - scary bass!
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
I had a PV1 - it was fast, clean and did good mid-bass, but it just didn't go very low.

It was replaced with a Paradigm Seismic 110 which basically wiped the floor with it in every department apart from looks.
I then decided to stop being so over considerate to my neighbours (I live in a flat) and treated myself to a Monitor Audio Gold W15 and it does everything the above two did, plus proper deep scary bass!
That's your USP - scary bass!
I used to own a PV1 a long long time ago (about when I joined here around 2004/2005) I think I may have even purchased it going by that What Hi-fi review :blush: (and obviously its looks). I upgraded that to an SVS PB12+ (which was probably marginally better than a Monolith) and that was like going from no sub at all, to well, having one :) and at the time I also lived in a flat :D I probably never used to listen louder than about -20MV though but even then the difference was huge..

I've been on at him for a while now, trying to convince him what he's missing out on, but over time, you feel like you're repeating yourself a bit ;) so I thought I'd let him keep an eye on this thread and hear experiences from other people that have upgraded from a PV1.. :thumbsup:

Plus PV1's have been selling for good money on ebay so he probably wouldn't have too spend much to upgrade.
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
The trouble with Subwoofers is that they are basically ugly - just a big, black cube. In terms of aesthetics, they just can't compare with the PV1.

I bought one based on this (I know, I know) and the positivity from What Hi-Fi. The Seismic was black, but small, round and stubby and received a sensational review on here.

My current Sub is a cube, but it has a Piano Ebony finish with a white driver and looks like a piece of furniture as well as being a fine example of audio engineering.

Why did your friend get a PV1? Is he happy with it? Does he want to change it, or do you? (;)) What does he think of your PSA's?

I regard the PV1 as a lifestyle item - something that looks good in brochures, designer homes and something for your friends to go "wow" to without actually switching it on. As I said, it does fulfil a function and purpose up to a point, but it is very expensive for what it offers technically and something half the price from BK will easily outperform it.

And BK at least have the good sense to offer multiple finishes, not just black!
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
He hasn't heard mine yet as I've only had them a month or so but he's welcome to pop round when he gets a chance. He actually bought the sub from me, he had it for a few years and it developed a fault out of warranty, B&W actually replaced with it a brand new unit at no cost which was very good service. He's happy with it but needs to realise he's missing out on a lot of the good stuff :D
 

D1gita1

Active Member
Why try convince him of anything, what's wrong with him liking the subwoofer he bought and choosing to stay with it. The PV-1 is a perfectly fine subwoofer, when it's not breaking anyway. Few can match its aesthetics and it produces a sound most people seem to like. Why not let him just enjoy his subwoofer? Does he want to upgrade?
 

D1gita1

Active Member
I do not know anything about a PV1 subwoofer but I reckon you will have a hard time convincing your mate it is not a downgrade or a sideways move after what I just read. It is a bit long in the tooth but then so is a Monolith.

What Hi-Fi gave it a rave review.
B&W PV1 review | What Hi-Fi?

These user reviews rate it quite well.
B&W PV1 Subwoofers user reviews : 3.9 out of 5 - 8 reviews - audioreview.com

And you can still buy it for the princely sum of £1200.
Bowers & Wilkins PV1D Sub Woofer
Just my 2 pence, but...

In short, don't put too much faith in glossy magazine reviews, they're seldom objective and typically just an enthusiasts opinion. Some might even call into question how such opinions are often formed and from year to year can even contradict themselves. Just look at what hifi's review of the Yamaha 3050 vs the 3060, and bear in mind the xx60 is basically the same product with slight improvements.
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Why try convince him of anything, what's wrong with him liking the subwoofer he bought and choosing to stay with it. The PV-1 is a perfectly fine subwoofer, when it's not breaking anyway. Few can match its aesthetics and it produces a sound most people seem to like. Why not let him just enjoy his subwoofer? Does he want to upgrade?
Just having some fun, stirring the pot ;) I just think for the price he could sell the PV1 for (£300-500 on ebay) he could get a much better experience for a minimal cost.
 

D1gita1

Active Member
Just having some fun, stirring the pot ;) I just think for the price he could sell the PV1 for (£300-500 on ebay) he could get a much better experience for a minimal cost.
Well if it helps, you're not wrong :thumbsup:
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
OP - actions speak louder than words (apparently), so get him over to yours and unleash the Beasts!

Once he hears/feels real bass with visceral slam and impact, he'll quickly realise that the PV1 is mostly style over substance. Then you can point him in the direction of a new Monolith or something similar secondhand, maybe from here via the Classifieds.:)
 

Sandyb01

Active Member
Just having some fun, stirring the pot ;) I just think for the price he could sell the PV1 for (£300-500 on ebay) he could get a much better experience for a minimal cost.

I used to have a PV1 - and I thought it was very good. Sure there may have been better, and I wouldn't argue with that. But when I tested a few around purchase time, the others I tried (a Velodyne sub for roughly the same price, maybe a bit less) in a high end audio shop sounded muffled by comparison. In fact it wasn't even close, and by comparison the PV1 was much more precise and driving.

So I don't quite think it should be damned as a pure lifestyle product - though of course its looks account for some of its cost.

And bear in mind not everyone wants to be blown away by masses of bass or low end.

I've since switched it to a Bang & Olufsen BL 19, which is incredible - do I care that it was 2k? Yeah, not ideal, but its amazing, in fact more bass than I really need / want with movies, and I never use it for music, where I disengage it.

And while there are I'm sure suitable alternatives for half the price, I'd rather pay that premium to avoid an ugly black box. And make no mistake, they're all pretty much hideous back boxes. So for those who area bit more aesthetically, minimal or design sensitive, I certainly wouldn't have any time for someone suggesting lower price, similar performing, but much worse looking alternatives. All of which I knew at purchase.

I get the instinct to say "look, you could have got something similar or better for much less", but then others should understand responses of the nature of "but that setup looks ugly".
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
OP - actions speak louder than words (apparently), so get him over to yours and unleash the Beasts!

Once he hears/feels real bass with visceral slam and impact, he'll quickly realise that the PV1 is mostly style over substance. Then you can point him in the direction of a new Monolith or something similar secondhand, maybe from here via the Classifieds.:)
Totally agree. I've told him it would only take 10mins to see what he's missing out on if he comes round but he would rather spend money on 4k films he already owns than put it towards a substantial upgrade that will make every movie sound better :devil: I suppose ignorance is bliss for some people :rolleyes: :D
 

Sandyb01

Active Member
Totally agree. I've told him it would only take 10mins to see what he's missing out on if he comes round but he would rather spend money on 4k films he already owns than put it towards a substantial upgrade that will make every movie sound better :devil: I suppose ignorance is bliss for some people :rolleyes: :D

This is one weird thread / argument.

It's as if the PV1 is a poor sub, which is incorrect. As above, I had one and it's pretty good, and the much better one I have now is actually too much bass for me oftentimes during movies.

Not everyone wants or cares about shuddering bass. It may well not be about ignorance, more a preference.

The PV1 got a strong reception not because of some hidden conspiracy, playing up a 2 star product. Its because it's pretty damn good, and that's before you get to the hideous look of most other subs.
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
It's far from an argument..

The difference between ignorance and preference is preference you've heard both and prefer one or the other, ignorance is refusing to accept info that more knowledgeable people give when all they're trying to do is do you a favour by bettering your experiences :)
 

Sandyb01

Active Member
It's far from an argument..

The difference between ignorance and preference is preference you've heard both and prefer one or the other, ignorance is refusing to accept info that more knowledgeable people give when all they're trying to do is do you a favour by bettering your experiences :)

Sure, there is an objective element to this, but also a subjective one.

If you friend refuses to accept anything is better than his PV1, then yes, he's being closed minded. Without knowing him or hearing his POV, difficult to comment.

My point is that the way you write its as of the PV1 is some hyped up lifestyle hollow product. I lived with one for 6-7 years, and I thought it was excellent. Others do too. And I tested it in a proper listening room at a very high end store, against a few others. Its very agile, precise and driving. Again, I'm sure others provide a bigger slam with movies, but (again), not everyone wants that.

Not everyone wants Beats headphones either, with their emphasis on thumping bass.

And the way better looks of the PV1 count for a lot for some people.

And if you want to sneer at PV1 owners, also accept that others may, with equal justification, sneer at those with ugly big boxes scattered around (whether that applies to you specifically I don't know). Believe me, I can be pretty elitist and sneery, and when people post pictures of their setups 99% of the time my reaction is that they look ugly as sin, but I resist the temptation to give voice to my disapproval.

If your friend was making claims of greatness for some cheap poorly performing product (sub in this case), I'd have sympathy with you quizzical response. In this case though the PV1 is a pretty decent performer, and a very good looking one, so it's certainly has its merits.

And for the record, I moved on from my PV1 to something much better, so I'm not wedded to it. And as before, my much better replacement is actually more bass than I need - preference does play a part.
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Yeh I've owned one as well, if you listen to a lot of music with an occasional movie at relatively low volumes and/or have neighbours to consider then yes, it's a good sub. But when people say it's style over substance in a way they're correct, as if that wasn't the case it would cover the full frequency range (like most sealed subs do at that price range and even lower) Unfortunately the +/-3db points are 35hz-110hz so that's a fair bit of low end missing for a large chunk of money.. I could get that level of performance from a budget BK subwoofer at around a quarter of the price.

I personally would rather a big box that can recreate the effects in movies than something that looks nice but can't come close to reproducing it but that's my personal preference, and while some may sneer at the ugliness of these more than capable subwoofers, in the same vein some of us may look at these stylish subs and think you're obviously not that into home cinema/movies/bass as you're not getting close to the full effects most movies have to offer, but each to their own I suppose :)
 

Sandyb01

Active Member
Yeh I've owned one as well, if you listen to a lot of music with an occasional movie at relatively low volumes and/or have neighbours to consider then yes, it's a good sub. But when people say it's style over substance in a way they're correct, as if that wasn't the case it would cover the full frequency range (like most sealed subs do at that price range and even lower) Unfortunately the +/-3db points are 35hz-110hz so that's a fair bit of low end missing for a large chunk of money.. I could get that level of performance from a budget BK subwoofer at a quarter of the price.

I personally would rather a big box that can recreate the effects in movies than something that looks nice but can't come close to reproducing it but that's my personal preference, and while some may sneer at the ugliness of these more than capable subwoofers, in the same vein some of us may look at these stylish subs and think you're obviously not that into home cinema/movies/bass as you're not getting close to the full effects most movies have to offer, but each to their own I suppose :)

Yes exactly - its not objectively wrong to chose a PV1.

Some may sneer at my Beolab 19 sub - but I'd be staggered if anyone watched a movie with it in my setup and said "nah, you're missing out on something at the low end". It's a ridiculous performer with both movies and music. And it's a looker, as far as subs go. Performance and style, albeit at a very high price.

Some may laugh at me spending 2k on a sub, but if someone would say that it's performance is lacking or it didn't look great, well that would be a claim with little to no credibility.

And I don't quite know what "that into home movies" means? I watch action movies pretty rarely, but I'm not immune to sometimes wanting to being blown away by an immersive action movie. And my system can do that, trust me. But for the most part I watch talkie movies, and bass is less relevant.

That doesn't make me less into home cinema or movies - arguably the contrary case could be made.

Does that mean someone with a good 1080P screen is not that into movies? That would be absurd. Sure, if they'd watch all their movies on a 26inch in the kitchen, you could make that point, but that's not what the PV1 is, by way of parallel.

Your PV1 owning friend may be closed minded, but I'd suggest your thoughts are none too open either.
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
What I mean't was, There are people who have home cinema setups but they aren't really into home cinema, they simply own one because it sounds good, but they haven't a clue when it comes to setup issues or upgrades etc!.. I'm pretty sure everyone knows someone like that?

I'm not saying that my HC enthusiast friends are like that as most are pretty competent but I can't be blamed for trying to get any of them up a few levels when it comes to subwoofers, as having gone through 13 subwoofers since my PV1 I have quite a good opinion on what can be suitable for movies and what could potentially be lacking. Plus there's nothing better than spending other peoples money :D and hearing those words.. 'I should have done that sooner' :)

As for the close minded comment, you couldn't be more wrong. I will always try to steer people closer to performance for the price over looks or anything else. I'd rather people get the best experience first time round than be forever upgrading or wondering if there was a better performing option for their £1000..

Edit: Might be worth closing this now if you don't mind? as it isn't really going anywhere and no doubt he will make his decision soon enough ;)
 

The latest video from AVForums

Guardians of the Galaxy Xmas Special, Strange World, Bones and All, and Cabinet of Dr Caligari in 4K
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom