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Convergence on my AE200

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Tempest, Dec 15, 2003.

  1. Tempest

    Tempest
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    After owning my AE200 for a few weeks now & it being in it's box for most of the time (apart from the odd measurment for the mount dimensions & few mins here and there to set it's position)

    I finally fired it up for a test run today on it's mount to square the picture up on the far wall.

    Just running the blue background menu screen and me and my tape measure adjusting the feet I've make to align the unit.

    Anyhow..........

    (bearing in mind the projector is upside down) I appear to have (what I would consider) very bad RED convengence towards the left of the screen.

    Looking close at the white menu writing (looking at the individual white pixels) I would say the RED is over half a whole pixel out. There is no menu at the far edge of the screen, but I would no be supprised if red approaches a full pixel out at the far left (guess)

    In the center and to the right of the screen it seems ok.

    Should I consider this a return? I've heard others talk about a slight red tinge around the edges of some white bits, but not over half a pixel out.....

    May take a photo later.
     
  2. LV426

    LV426
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    I think that we can sometimes get obsessed with graphics, menus and test signals.

    Try looking at some 'real' material, from normal viewing distance. My guess is that the effect will be unobtrusive. And almost certainly, much less so than all those happy owners of (drifted out of adjustment) CRT projectors.

    If you still can't cope with it, you can try for a fix or refund. However I'd guess that this would be seen as 'within tolerance'. I'd also guess that the extent to which it is 'out' won't differ across the screen.

    To fix it is not something that can be done, say, from an engineer's menu. It is a mechnical adjustment of the position of one or more of the LCD panels. For most LCD PJ's, they are fixed (glued) in position at the factory. And bear in mind that each LCD panel is only a couple of centimetres or so across; a half-pixel misalignment represents a physical mis-positioning of only a few microns - very hard to get 100% right.
     
  3. Sandman

    Sandman
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    If it stops you enjoying your viewing the send it back to panasonic. I had 1 very annoying blue pixel on my AE100 and I sent it back to panasonic, it was within tolerence but they fixed it anyway. It was returned fixed but with 4 partially stuck pixels (about a 1/4 of a pixel each). I was going to return it again but then realised that they dont interfere with my viewing at all as they can only be seen on a black screen from a distance of about 1m. If you are not satisfied, demand you get it fixed.
     
  4. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Just taken some pics very quickly (excuse quality) to show what I am talking about.

    Nigel: As odd as it may seem, the misconvergence is NOT the same across the screen.
    The RIGHT hand side of the screen is dead on, the middle is pretty much dead on also, but the red starts going out on the left side of the screen.

    The red pixels are out of alignment up and to the left of the other pixels (when you look at a white pixel)

    I have not been able to take a photo of the extream right, as I am using the white words on the build in menu to show this, which means it's about 1/4 the way in from both sides of the screen (ish)

    What I did was take a photo on the left hand side of the letters "DE" and then flip from wall mounted to desktop which flipped the word over the other side of the screen and took the same letters (now on the right of the screen).

    Here's the photo's:

    The LEFT hand side of the screen photo:
    http://www.tempest.eurobell.co.uk/Left.jpg

    The RIGHT hand side of the screen photo:
    http://www.tempest.eurobell.co.uk/Right.jpg

    Comments ?
     
  5. Splice

    Splice
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    i would say you will see this on near enough every projector you see, if you look hard enough. some are worse than others. i have just recently bought a hs20 and i have the same red fringing on the left of the screen, but you just dont see it from viewing position when watching movies. the one thing to remember is that if you return it they may well send a replacement that is worse in the covergence area, or you may have vertical banding, panel noise or dead or open pixels, noisier fan etc etc etc... my advice would be assuming that you are happy with all other aspects of the machine and that you can't see the mis convergance from your viewing position then just enjoy it. i did have an ae100 and had the same problem but slightly worse, the ae100 i ended up with still had a convergence fringe , but blue opposed to red, which i do have to admit was slightly less noticable. i think a lot of people just will not notice this problem unless runningthe pj through a pc or running the video tests on a calibratiion disk such as avia, incidently i am extremely fussy when it comes to picture quality, and if i can live with it, any one can.... believe me!!!!:D

    enjoy your new toy..

    all the best.........Splice

    :smashin:


    OH and happy christmas.......to all forum members
     
  6. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Yeah, well I must admit, I'm looking at this from a TECHNICAL point of view, rather than a what a film looks like point of view.

    What I don't get is that although the red is off at the left of the screen, the pixels still look white, you would think the red being not there would affect the pixels but if you could not see the red pixels to one side the white pixels still look white.

    And you are right, from say 4 to 5 foot from a 7 foot screen you cannot see this anyway...........

    Just awaiting my Radeon now.
    Actually managed to get my Voodoo5 do do the 1:1 864x480 (is it) for a quick test. and did work, though I hope for much better results from my new Radeon in the next few days.
     
  7. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Relax!
    Most LCD projectors out by up to one "whole" pixel.
    I noticed this on my first LCD projector, and has made me check loads of others to make sure it is normal etc.
    It is normal to have say, the green out one side the red in the middle and blue out the other side etc.
    Lense shift can have slight effect on this as well.

    Now the good news!

    I have found that while a perfectly aligned LCD can look very sharp close up, it is normally not any "advantage" from normal viewing distances.

    In fact, i found screendoor and vertical banding to be more of a problem with perfectly aligned panels!;)

    I managed to create the colour patching effect or the purple/green tinge effect by mistake on a Panasonic AE100.
    I had made a home made ceiling mount, but screwed it to tightly forgetting about the rubber feet.
    I actually managed to bend the whole PJ!(pictures somewhere on this site!)
    Luckily it returned to the right shape once the screws were backed of, and the tinging went.

    Any "fringing" around objects you can see from normal viewing distances, are more likely to be either in the "source" or a DVD player/cable problem.

    :)
     
  8. theritz

    theritz
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    Agree with Paul................... given the tiny size of the lcd panel area some degree of mis-convergence is practically inevitable - mine seems to be one full pixel out, which is fortunate - just a line of green pixels down one side of the image which gets masked out. If you don't notice any issue when watching a movie from you normal seating distance then i'd be onclined to hold on to the pj - a dead/stuck pixel (which won't normally warrant a replacement) is far worse.


    Sean G.
     
  9. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thank's for the advice on this.
    Looking at the image tonight, I'd say I did rather blow this way out of proportion. From just a few feet away you can't notice this at all, let alone normal viewing distance.
     
  10. LV426

    LV426
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    In that case, if the PJ is otherwise free from defects (eg bad pixels) I'd definitely stay with it. A swap or fix might introduce other, more noticeable issues.
     
  11. Mr_Belowski

    Mr_Belowski
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    My Z1 isn't properly converged at the right hand side of the image, and it's more than a single pixel out too - probably 1 and a half. It's made worse by the fact that it's out diagonally, so there's a green line above and to the left of high-contrast edges, and a similar red line below and to the right.

    But as I only really see this problem when reading credits and stuff, it's a none-issue. In movies I can just about see it from my seat if I deliberately look for it, but to be honest it's just not worth bothering about. I definitely agree with what others have said. No dead pixels or other niggles means my Z1 is staying as it is, and I think you'd be well advised to just accept it as an inherent issue with LCD panels.

    On a 0.7 inch panel each pixel is about 1/20'th of a millimetre across, so just one pixel out seems like a pretty good tolerance to me :)
     
  12. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Cheers for your comments Mr_Belowski
    I'd have to agree about not being able to see anything in reality, though you'rs seems to be a tiny bit more than mine.
    As you say we're not dealing with much in reality & I'm sure there are many people with the same if not worse issues then never think anything of it.
    I'm just a fussy git :)
     
  13. Kramer

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    Closer to 1/40th actually :eek:

    When 1920x1080 panel PJs start arriving, they'll have nearly 100 pixels per milimeter!

    Agree with what's been said already, slight misconvergence is common & not (usually) an issue.

    :smoke:
     

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