Console VR sales 'generally slow'

Discussion in 'VR Virtual Reality Forum' started by Presuming Ed, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Presuming Ed

    Presuming Ed
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    Was just reading a BBC article about how Microsoft are backing out of VR plans on the Xbox.

    Xbox steps back on console VR plans

    I am starting to wonder if VR game support will remain niche, or worse still, if it has reached a plateau.
     
  2. Atmos

    Atmos
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    Definitely plateaued.

    This is why I think Oculus said nothing about CV2.

    Sony are at the forefront of VR and sales of PSVR have been modest. 3 million from 80 million console owners.

    Even GO sales with its £200 price point isn’t lighting the fires.

    This is why I laugh at Zuckerbergs 1 billion user fantasy. Never going to happen in our lifetime. In fact he said each platform needs 10 million users to become sustainable. Even 10 million will take at least 10 year at current rates.

    Facebook need Quest to be the saviour of Oculus because you’re only as good as your last HMD and Rift is already beat by Vive and Odyssey, that’s before Pimax comes along.

    I think Odyssey will go wireless using the Qualcomm XR platform for gen 2.

    GO is non starter. Oculus already admitted 80% of GO users only use it for movie watching. Game Devs are not going to get a return on those figures if you need a 10million userbase to be sustainable.

    Nvidia are doing its best to cripple VR gaming by pricing next gen VR out of the reach of the masses.

    Foveated rendering isn’t going to be the saviour people were hoping.

    I suspect a whole new render pipeline is needed for VR so HMDs don’t cripple GPUs in comparison to monitors like they do now.

    If all the stars align I think VR will come out of these dark ages and gaming monitors will become a thing of the past.

    We still need a PC based VR console though.
     
  3. TheyCallMeTJ

    TheyCallMeTJ
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    Actually cryptocurrency miners appear to be the ones that are crippling the PC/Console games playing world. They are the cause of the high graphics card prices and even contributing to world energy crisis, not Nvidea or AMD. Companies buy up millions of graphics cards purely for mining.

    Take that as fake news or not but a group of my colleagues were swept up in the darkness of cryptocurrency as a syndicate dedicating separate multiple PCs with 1080 Ti's. All I could think of how ready those PCs are for VR, and could even open a VR entertainment cafeteria centre with those. What a bloody waste!

    I am also a PSVR owner (and lover) and my perspective is that rate of quality of games being released for consoles is rising. Its not rapid for sure but looking at it as a glass half full, its not in decline either. Its slowly growing and improving in quality titles which I am certainly enjoying.

    We should also blame Spencer Kelly on BBC Click for smashing a VR headset out of frustration in one episode last year, speculating a death to VR. Was a horrifying epsiode, lol! Of all people, Spencer normally promotes and shows excitement for VR tech. Traitor, lol. But for being a prime tech program, that could have put off many potential VR customers.


    Sad to hear Go hasnt taken off as its a brilliant low cost all in one VR headset. But where was the marketing for it? I never saw commercials or any tech programs promoting it. We know about it because we are already VR enthusiasts and of course VR sites would promote it but what about the rest of the world, they know nothing about it, not even Facebookers!
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  4. Atmos

    Atmos
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    If that was the case why does the RTX2080 cost more than a GTX1080ti when the GTX1080ti has more cores more memory and little difference in FPS?

    The reality is Nvidia are pushing up prices regardless of mining because they’re greedy and only see numbers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  5. Presuming Ed

    Presuming Ed
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    Yeah.

    I wonder what the future holds for the less dedicated VR gamer like myself.

    I know I'm not spending much over £500 on a GPU (I currently have a 980Ti that I bought new and thought was very expensive).

    Even for an existing VR user and convert, the next generation of headset, with all costs taken into account, might scare me away.

    My current HMD is going to have to last me for some time to come!
     
  6. 1080 jawbreaker

    1080 jawbreaker
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    garbage optics are enough to put me off, I only get the rift out every few months and that's only to show someone what its like. We need a wider fov and zero screen door, no idea what res and processing that would need though.
     
  7. nheather

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    Interesting reading. Must admit I find myself loking at VR developments for PC every now and then, and I also took the bait when the Rift was £350 in the last Amazon Prime day sales.

    But I have to rein myself back, telling myself that the only reason I have for it is Elite Dangerous and splashing out £350 just to make one game nicer is madness.

    Cheers,

    Nigel
     
  8. Atmos

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    Pimax 5k+ should be the HMD for you @1080 jawbreaker. 170FOV, 100 degree sweet spot, minimal SDE and available Q1 next year. Recommended GPU - 1080ti or higher.

    Pimax 8K vs 5K+ Through The Lens Comparison -...
     
  9. TheyCallMeTJ

    TheyCallMeTJ
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    Sony's PSVR already had taken the lead with reducing screen door effect with a unique RGB stripe OLED display, despite having a lower resolution, it actually delivers a higher SUB pixel resolution than Vive/Rift/Microsoft, pushes 120hz frame rate and has lenses that produces no god rays. I dont know why other VR headsets are not adopting similar screen technology. Very puzzling. Only Occulus Go delivers an RGB stripe matrix display but its LCD (so lower brightness level and not OLED blacks level quality), but hence why users find it great for watching movies. Higher resolution RGB Stripe OLED should have been the way to go and the biggest plus point is that there is no need for extra processing power to reduce the screen door effect. Also Oculus Go has an improved hybrid fresnel lens that almost eliminates god rays which is a cheaper solution apparently then the lens Sony uses.

    However, if wanting a wider FOV than that means spreading the pixels outs which will increase the screen door effect. So what's the immediate desire, wider FOV at sacrifice of increased SDE, or reduced SDE whilst retaining OLED screens at same FOV we have today?

    I personally always desire low SDE, high frame rate above wider FOV. We all have a different emaphisis on our desires for VR. But we cant get it all in one go, at this stage. Pimax certainly making a great step as they use RGB strip displays but on LCD displays.

    We all have slightly different emphasis on what we desire in VR but I guess we all ultimately want Ready Player One VR!
     
  10. thesnowdog

    thesnowdog
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    You're paying a premium on 20s cards because it's new tech. And new tech is expensive. The 21s should be back to the 10s prices by the time they're released.
     
  11. Atmos

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    What like the Rift price cut you predicted at OC5? :p
     
  12. thesnowdog

    thesnowdog
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    Well I wasn't the only one predicting that. Obviously the Rift is outselling the Vive so much that Oculus cutting the price would be deemed by many to be unfair lol :p
     
  13. Atmos

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    But the Steam Survey was no change so there’s no evidence the Rift is outselling the Vive. Did you just make that up?
     
  14. SunnyIntervals

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    I hope Sony see PSVR as successful enough to warrant a PSVR2, released alongside the PS5. We won't know for a while yet, but I'd definitely be interested in buying it.

    I really enjoy my PSVR gear, but there is a lack of AAA games supported by bigger developers and publishers. EA and Rocksteady released the X-Wing and Batman VR mini games; both amazing, but nothing from either developer since. I'm amazed we don't have a Star Wars vehicle related game, but the big players seem reluctant to put money into VR (and ILMxLabs seem to be contractually tied to Occulus).

    It's easy for people to moan about cost, resolution, cables, etc, but we have to start somewhere; there's no future at all if early adopters don't give these things a go. I just hope enough of us have to warrant future headsets that are lighter, smaller, cable free, etc.

    VR can be absolutely amazing, but I find myself wondering why the potential isn't being tapped. It's not just about games, I'd love to use VR to visit places normally off limits to the public, or recreations of historical buildings and cities. Frankly I'm amazed I even can't buy a "build your own world" game for PSVR.
     
  15. Hixs

    Hixs
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    Is now a bad time to buy into console vr? I own an original xb1 right now, so I'd be starting from scratch.
     
  16. Atmos

    Atmos
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    Depends on a lot of factors, your patients, money, upraditus. PS4 might have another 24 months before we see a PS5. Then there’s no guarantee PSVR2 will come day one with PS5 launch. No one knows.

    If you already have a PS4 now I would just get PSVR now and enjoy it for what it is.

    If you have a capable PC I would wait for the Pimax HMDs in January.
     
  17. Hixs

    Hixs
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    No PS4 and my laptop has a 1050 so not really up to task.
     
  18. Presuming Ed

    Presuming Ed
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    And herein lies the rub.

    Average consumers don't have a capable PC.

    So while new technology like the Pimax might be fantastic, it's a hell of an outlay for the uninitiated.

    The apparatus aimed at the average consumer - PSVR, Vive, Windows headsets, Oculus Rift - has to remain popular and shift in high numbers or the house of cards may fall.
     
  19. martimu

    martimu
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    Prices are coming down, and new wireless headsets like the quest are coming. I think these will help. I didn't get on with the PSVR but loved a friends Vive. Cables are a pain in the backside though. I'm also not sure how some people get on with the isolation that headphones and headsets can induce

    We've just invested in a PC at work with the intention of using VR and AR as a sales tool. Will probably get rift to do the development stuff on and a quest to use with customers. I wonder if it's going to used in this context more going forward - i.e. experiences
     
  20. blackmesa8

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    I love PSVR. Some of the first games for it were pants, low res and other bad stuff.
    Look at the PSVR games coming out now. Rendered at 1080p with great detail, specially on the PS4 PRO. I also find it amazing at 3D Blu ray playback compared to TV's that do 3D. Its headset seems really good at a 3D blu ray playback.

    I hope on Sony's next console there is a new VR headset released at somepoint with higher res etc.
     
  21. SunnyIntervals

    SunnyIntervals
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    There's the new Oculus Quest, around £300? But self contained
     
  22. MikeKay1976

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    Quest looks decent for what it is... But I think £300 is optimistic. It's $400. With the strength of the £ right now and vat I think best we can hope for is a 1:1 price of £400.
    Still if it as good as I hope it is I think it is still good value if you are not gonna buy pc vr or PS4 vr.
    I still wish oculus had put an 845 chipset in there instead of 835. But that may have forced the price up
     
  23. thesnowdog

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    Yup, it's bound to be £399 over here. Should sell well though I think.
     
  24. Atmos

    Atmos
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    Should sell well like GO and Rift you mean?

    If anything it will sell between GO and Rift.

    Most people just want a cheap movie viewer as proven by the 80% of people who buy GO.
     
  25. Presuming Ed

    Presuming Ed
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    Source for stats?
     
  26. thesnowdog

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    The Go is selling well going by the amount of downloads of the setup app.
     
  27. thesnowdog

    thesnowdog
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    Somewhere between 500,001 and 1,000,000 downloads, and that's just on Android. Probably sold over a million in the West when you take Apple devices into account.

    And those figures don't take into account downloads of the app from the Xiaomi Store in the Far East too.

    A conservative estimate would be ~2m sales in 5 months which doesn't sound too shabby to me tbh
     
  28. Atmos

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    Carmack said in his OC5 keynote 80% of GO users use it for media and 20% for gaming.

    It’s around 27minute mark. Yes I watched 27 minutes of his keynote just for you lol.
     
  29. Atmos

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    I’m sorry Snowdog I just think you’re way off. When Vive is in stock on Amazon it beats both GO 64gb and 32Gb in the rankings. But Vive doesn’t sell anywhere near 2 million in 5 months. Even adding 64 and 32Gb together wouldn’t get 2million in 5 months.

    And if Oculus had reached 1 million in 2-3 months you can bet 100% they’d be singing about it because it would be big news.

    But on the other hand if GO sells 1million and 80% only use it for movies/porn that not a great record for game Devs as it’s for worse in terms of game sales than the Rift or Vive. It’s only 200,000 gamers.

    Carmack is proclaiming Quests 80% use for gaming but this is an unknown as the headset had t been released yet and it also has competition from GO for half the price.

    If 20% only want to watch movies on GO you can deduct 20% off Quest sales because why spend an extra £200 on Quest?
     
  30. ArmitageShanks

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    I think the Quest will sell like hotcakes if they don't stuff up the marketing and there's some decent software for it.

    Most generic tech consumers don't have or want to plough thousands of pounds/dollars into dedicated VR rigs (these VR "enthusiast" people that do are totally crazy apparently :D). Hopefully it will become a gateway drug to more enlightened PC VR experiences.
     

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