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Connecting Pioneer plasma by HDMI

Discussion in 'Cables & Switches' started by spindoctor, Apr 16, 2004.

  1. spindoctor

    spindoctor
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    I have been trying to get a digital connection from my Windows Media Center PC to my plasma tv using the DVI out from the computer and the HDMI in on the plasma screen. I already have the cable for doing so.

    The problem lies in the fact that the plasma needs a 1280 x 720p input as opposed to 1280 x 768 input which is a standard monitor resolution. I am using my plasma through the RGB (PC Mode) connection, but can never set up a stable 720p connection via HDMI which windows boots into. I have tried Powerstrip, but owing to not knowing what I am doing with the program, my attempts have failed so far.

    Anyone have any experience of this problem. I have read posts where other people have been doing the same, hence I'd like some guidance as to how I can go about setting up a stable connection via HDMI for Windows Media Center.

    Thanks
     
  2. mherrin

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    I have the same problem as you. I just heard about trying DScaler, and will give it a go this w/end.

    I didn't know about the resolution being 1280 x 700 - where'd you find that out?
    Any other infor / sources of info gratefully received!

    I'll let you know how I get on.

    Ceers,
    Mike
     
  3. spindoctor

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    I tried hooking the whole lot up with Powerstrip but miserably failed. I had better success when i uninstalled Powerstrip and used the multiple monitors option in Windows XP. After tweeking with the whole thing I managed to get a good picture on screen but bits of the desktop was lying outside of the screen and I couldn't think of how to adjust this without powerstrip.

    So how do we proceed from here?
     
  4. probedb

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    You should be able to do it in Powerstrip, most people at AVS Forums use it and the powerstrip site has some standard timings you can use I think. Just make sure you alter the timings for the secondary monitor in powerstrip.
     
  5. spindoctor

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    Having used powerstrip, it is great when you have the one motnior running but is an absolute pain when you are trying to set the whole thing up and for that you need a 2 monitor set up as otherwise the picture on the Pioneer TV will not appear after a boot up as the TV is not designed to be used as a DVI monitor in that way, which is also a pain.
     
  6. ancientgeek

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    That's why I've got the MXE version. The media box seemed like a hindrance to me. DVI works as it should at 1280/768. (In my case 1024/768 actually). But my cheapskate PC won't recognise WXGA via etiher DVI or VGA, so I get unused sidebars or oval circles. Macs work the DVI OK though. Just plug in and the plasma is correctly recognised, fully used and everything's the right shape. No need to reboot even.
     
  7. mherrin

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    I'm a bit thick, really.:rolleyes: Should have realised that DScaler would only work for the DVD output - not for the whole o/p of the card.

    Have just got powerstrip, will try in the morning with a hangover.

    Can't find the PDP434 timings in their forums, anyone got a stock set of timings etc. for this panel?

    Have done a search on powerstrip on AVSforums.com, and have yet to read all the results. Older Pioneer panels mentioned, just need to read more.

    Time for :beer:
     
  8. mherrin

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    I have got it sort of working with Powerstrip now.

    Looking at the HDMI supplementary documentation that came with the PDP, it lists a few supported modes. One of which is 1280x720progressive @ 59.94/60Hz.
    I have another monitor handy and am going through a guide I found here:
    http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/powerstrip.html

    I can get this displayed on the panel, but have both vertical & horizontal overscan. I'm working on this at the moment, and will post my results when I get it working (notice the hopeful 'when' ) :)
     
  9. mherrin

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    I have finally got it working with powerstrip.

    Started from the guide mentioned above, and looked on Entechs site to tweak.

    Started from 1280x720x60hz Progressive (PDP reports 720 progressive)
    Fiddle with the active pixels until I got a good screen fit at 1224x694

    Will post screen shots if you want them, or the powerstrip .ini file entries.

    Now moving on to get TheaterTek and FFDShow working...

    Cheers,
    Mike
     
  10. Eagerbeaver

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    This is great news that you ave it working. Are you getting an undistorted picture ie round circles and equal sided squares.

    Is this on the 434 or 504 Pioneer.
     
  11. mherrin

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    I have a good picture, on a PDP434HDE (with the media box)
    I ran the THX video setup on Monsters inc. and have perfect circles in 4:3 & Widescreen.
    (Can't get the rest of the flaming DVD to play, though!!)
     
  12. mherrin

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    Here's the settings I have used to get my system working.

    The ZIP file contains the Powerstrip.ini and the Plasma monitor .INF file for windows, which you will need if you want to boot directly into the plasma as your primary display (give it a minute, as the monitor will not show your boot up screens, just the final desktop) My system does auto logon.

    Hope these files help. If anyone tweaks them for better results, please let me know. I'll do the same.

    Regards,
    Mike.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. mikeycrawford

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    Mherrin,

    what video card are you using with your Pioneer? I too am trying to "cure" the overscan problem I get with my Radeon 9800PRO via the HDMI input of the Media Receiver.

    I add the custom resolutions (tried your 1224x694 one also) but they don't become available after the reboot. I am using your Pioneer inf file as the monitor driver (although I have the 504HDE not the 434HDE).

    Would like to get this working as I can't drive the panel at 50Hz via the VGA port, only through the HDMI port.

    Any help appreciated.

    Mike
     
  14. Arshad

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    Hi Mherrin,

    I tried the 1224x694 thing and it worked too. That was easy. Have you ever give thought to acheiving 1:1 pixel mapping on the HDMI or is this impossible. If the hdmi can support these other resolution which are not suppose to support and are not even in the manual then i guess there is a possibility that it can be done.

    Cheers
     
  15. mikeycrawford

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    I've read on these forums (possibly from MAW or Gordon@Convergent) that it is not possible to do 1:1 pixel mapping via the HDMI on the HDE Pioneer's.

    I eventually got the custom resolution to take, and found 1224x688 to be the best fit on my 504HDE via HDMI. PAL DVDs now look the business with no obvious signs of tearing or judder. Have also got football from SKY looking quite good through DScaler - the grass doesn't look like a carpet anymore :)

    Happy days

    Mike
     
  16. Arshad

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    mikeycrawford,

    Yes i have read alot of these forums too that the Pioneer does not do 1:1 pixel mapping. They even said PC signal wasn't supported by the Pioneer hdmi input at first. But we came up with the solution. i think you have to try to see whether it does or not. Actually there must some difference between the standard pc resolution 1024x768 and the resolution hdmi is looking for. The thing is there are too many numbers to figure out which one will click. I know alot of people here just tried it once and gave up.
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    You cannot get 1:1 working on HDMI to a Pioneer HDE plasma. You can get it working DVI to an MXE though.

    Gordon
     
  18. Arshad

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    Hi Mherrin,

    I'm using Momitsu v880 dvd player with my pioneer 434 at 720p. So there must must be some overscan created by the dvd player just like the pc. If i go into the custom setting of the dvd player, would all the numbers be same as the 1124x694 resolution created by powerstrip in the pc. If it is just the same then i can just enter all the numbers and fix the overscan in the dvd player as well.

    Any idea.

    Cheers
     
  19. hutters

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    Had a play at the weekend and got a picture on my Pio 434, albeit with some overscan.

    Thanks to this thread, I *think* I now understand Powerstrip (need to play a little more), but one question I have is where/how does the .inf file come into play? Do I need to drop it into a Windows system folder or tell Windows to use it (if so how do I do that?) If I can get this bit sorted in my head I will have another play around with trying to get the picture 100%.

    Cheers.
     
  20. spindoctor

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    Well done on getting a picture up. That bit can be a bit of a challenge! Now I have found that the best way of setting it up is by using the following settings:

    Active Pixels: 1216 x 686
    Refresh Rate: 45 x 60
    Front Porch: 160 x 21
    Sync Width: 56 x 6
    Back Porch: 224 x 37
    Polarity: Positive x Positive
    Pixel Clock: 74.520

    You hit Add New resoultion and it might ask you to restart. Do so and then go back to the display settings and apply the new resoultion. You'll find that it crops on the left hand side, so you need to nudge the picture to the right once. You'll find it is almost perfect, with maybe 2 pixels either side of the screen black. Accept this and be on your merry way.

    The role of the inf file is important as it forces windows to use the hdmi output as the default output. Otherwise the only way of getting it to work is by booting it in with a standard VGA output and then swapping the connections after windows has booted. It's been some time since I did this, so you might have to install the inf file first and then apply the settings above.

    Hope that helps. Enjoy 43" of viewing pleasure!
     
  21. hutters

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    spindoctor, thanks very much for the additional info, I'm sure it will be very useful.

    one quickie though, when you say install the .inf file what do you mean by that - do I need to Add New Hardware and point windows to this file?

    Thanks again!
     
  22. spindoctor

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    Well when you plug in the PDP-434 to the back of the computer, the computer automatically recognises it. So you have to update the monitor's drivers (Control Panel... System...Hardware(tab)...Device Manager(button)..Monitors) with the .inf file rather than install new hardware.
     
  23. hutters

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    Nice one, cheers mate :thumbsup:
     
  24. Manu1001

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    No luck with 435 XDE... Showing "750p" and overscan ALL time. :mad:

    Any idea? :lease:

    Manu1oo1
     
  25. mikeycrawford

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    The 750p is nothing to worry about. I get this also but am driving the display at 1216 x 682 to cure the overscan (native res of the screen is 1280 x 768)
     
  26. dj_johnnyg

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    Hi Gents,

    Sorry to Butt in here, but I think you all may be able to help me.

    I have a Pio 435 XDE, and I have a PC in the cupboard connected to the screen via an SVHS cable (Now I only use this PC for e-mail, playing music & doing my accounts so PQ is not a major issue).

    Anyway, after a clean of my AV rack (and subsequent removal of all leads) I had no Picture on my screen from the PC. As I don't want to have a cable running to the VGA port on the front of the AV Box, I bought a DVI - HDMI cable to run from my graphics card to the HDMI port on the Media Box.

    The card in my PC is a 64Meg Radeon (With SVHS, DVI & VGA Outs).

    When I got a picture on my Pio, it looked appauling (Spelling?) so my first point of call was the settings. The Screen resolution bar was stuck at 720x525 (or similar) and looked to have another point on it, but would not move.

    Am I missing something obvious here, or is my graphics card just plain sh :censored: te?

    As it turned out, I'd just plugged the SVHS lead into the wrong hole (missus), so I now have a working screen, but although the HDMI image was sharper, not being able to see the taskbar, or the tops of windows wasn't worth the extra clarity.

    If anybody has any ideas please let me know, as if the image is of a much superior quality, then the SVHS lead under the carpet is going, and the HDMI one is going down.

    Sorry if this is off topic

    Regards

    John
     
  27. riccol1966

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    Hi Spindoctor, can you confirm what the picture quality is like now that you have done all this? I am sizing up a suitable WMC system to plug into my 434 and I got the answer from Pioneer that I could not use the HDMI input from a DVI HDCP compliant output. I already have a Pio DV668AV dvd player and the picture via HDMI is faultless. Will I be able to achieve a similar brilliant picture via the best graphics card with appropriate DVI output? Obviously further down the line I also want to send MPEG4 hi-fed video so that HDMI allows this to play in hi-def resolution?

    Thoughts, or has anyone compared HDMI direct from DVD to DVD-replay via a DVI graphics card?
     
  28. Joe Fernand

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    riccol1966

    You can plug any HDCP or Non HDCP Digital signal Into the HDMI port as long as you ensure the source device is outputting a signal format the HDMI port is designed to work with; see your user manual.

    What some of the guys here are doing is fiddling with timing adjustments on a graphics card to 'fool' the HDMI port into Displaying non standard signals.

    As the HDMI Port is a video Input and Pioneer tend to 'play safe' with overscan adjustments you will not get a great result at 720P 60Hz from your PC, if your keen you'll need to follow some of the graphic card 'tweaks' highlighted earlier in this Thread.

    At the risk of sounding like a stuck LP the HDMI port is not a PC Input and unless your into lots of PC tweaking your likely to get very bored before you get anything close to a satisfactory PC signal via HDMI.

    As and when you have multiple DVI or HDMI 'Video' sources there are now plenty of Digital Video switchers you can add to your system to achieve multiple connections via the single HDMI port on the Media Receiver.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  29. riccol1966

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    Thanks Joe - I just realised having re-read this whole thread that WMC is not really suited yet for hi-end connections via HDMI to your TV. There are 2 things that need to happen to help all of us out there looking at this as a connection possibility:
    1) new graphics cards need to come onstream with true HDMI HDCP compliant outputs (I notice this is already planned - as an example see
    http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/entry/662/silicon_image_enables)
    2) the WMC software needs to be revamped to allow the home user to plug and play via the HDMI output, and by that I mean it sets all the timings, ratios etc particularly when the HDMI input is a video input and not a PC input. I wonder if this is planned as a feature of WMC 2006.

    The Pioneer cust services desk were actually very helpful yesterday - I asked similar questiosn there and it turns out they have been trying various graphics cards with the PDP434 - albeit with only limited success. They still advocate using the VGA route, which, they also mentioned, will still give you hi-def playback.
     
  30. paulpenny

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    I wish I had seen this thread earlier!!!

    I just spent most of sunday working all this out.

    Using Powerstrip I have managed to get a working resolution on my Pioneer 506 XDE. I wanted two different refresh rates, 50Hz & 60Hz depending on whether I am watching PAL or US HDTV files. It seemed a problem to have two identical resolutions to do this so I just changed the Vertical figure by 2 pixels. After assigning a hotkey to each it is pretty easy to adjust things.

    I did notice that if you install Tweak MCE that it has overscan adjustments. I presume therefore that I could use the full 1280 x 768 or 1280 x 720 resolutions and then adjust that way. I might give it a try tonight.

    Incidentally, it is definitely worth setting up 50Hz refresh rate for the TV output. It made a huge difference to the playback on the Chelmsford v. Newcastle football (the match was still cr*p but at least it wasn't jerky!)

    Paul
     

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