Connecting LCD, DVD rec, Satellite without HDMI - advise

Discussion in 'Cables & Switches' started by xaxaxa, Jan 18, 2008.

  1. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    Please advise me: I need to connect my new LCD with DVD recorder (it does not have HDMI, only component) and satelllite (it doesnt have HDMI, neither component) so far on old CRT it was conneceted: SCART from satellite to DVD rec, from DVD rec to CRT TV. May I connect now satellite via SCART to DVD rec, and then DVD rec via component to LCD? Or can I connect satellite with DVD via SCART and DVD with LCD both via component and also SCART (will it work when I use 2 uotputs from DVD to LCD - component and SCART). Many thanks for your opinions.
     
  2. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
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    No details of exactly which devices you have so guess work only, but I would expect that you will need to use the second option :

    satellite with DVD via SCART and DVD with LCD both via component and also SCART

    It is unlikely that your DVD will convert a signal from the SCART input and output it over component so you will need the SCART route to the TV to get the satellite signal there.

    You could do satellite via SCART to the DVD and also satellite via SCART to the TV if the DVD doesn't pass RGB signals through as that would give you a better picture.

    You may need to change an option on the DVD to get it to use the component output, just something to remember if it doesn't work as expected.
     
  3. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    Well, if it helps, my devices are: LCD: SHARP LC42RD2E, DVD rec: PANASONIC DMR-EH55, Satellite: (cheap) Humax (branded by local satellite provider). What I was looking for was the information whether DVD can convert SCART from satellite to Component to TV, you said it probably cannot. So it seems that the only benefit of component connection is when I watch DVD on my DVD rec.? It wont feed the TV with higher quality signal when watching satellite?
     
  4. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
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    That's why I asked about specific models as otherwise it is just guesswork.

    Having had a look at the manual for your DVD it seems to say that you cannot use the component output if the SCART is set to RGB as well so the implication is that even if it is able to take the signal in over SCART and send it back out over component it is only going to be a composite signal that is is working from.

    The difference between RGB SCART and component isn't that great so I'd suggest that you experiment a little and see what looks best.

    The DVD output would be potentially better if you used progressive component output to the LCD, but if that means you cannot receive RGB over SCART for recording then that may not be such a good thing.

    It may just be the ability to output RGB over SCART that cannot co-exist with the component output so it is worth testing to see what happens.
     
  5. davepuma

    davepuma
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    It might work as you suggested if the DVD recorder supports RGB passthrough when it's off i.e. SCART in (RGB), SCART out (RGB) and run a component cable for when you want to view the DVD recorder on screen. I'm pretty sure Panasonic DVD recorders support RGB passthrough so you should be fine.

    On my setup, I have a RGB SCART buffer which effectively splits the RGB output from my sky box into two, one to the TV and one to the DVD recorder. I then run a component cable from my DVD recorder to my amp. This setup allows me to not have to worry about whether the DVD recorder is on or off for viewing sky and also I can view the sky on my projector which doesn't have SCART (RGB) input. Therefore I am using the DVD recorder as a RGB SCART to component converter box.

    I hope that explains it but TBH, try it and see if it works. You will also learn more about your kit if you know what works and doesn't work. Just post back if you have more questions.
     
  6. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    I'll try.

    One more question: will connection over component or HDMI improve the level of black colour? It just looks not dark enough (probably Im comparing it to me previous CRT:)
     
  7. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
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    The black level is more determined by the TV screen itself than the cables.

    LCD has got better in the last year or two but it is not normally the best choice if black levels are of prime importance to you.

    You'll probably want to spend some time getting your image settings sorted on the TV before you start chasing other ways to improve the way it looks.
     
  8. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    I see. Honestly I'm pretty impressed how this TV handles SD signal, I expected it to be worse - so I'm satisfied with this.
    But black goes a to a grey shade, maybe it should looks like this, Im not very experienced with LCDs. I haven't found any review on my LCD, I read only review of smaller scree version - it has dynamic contrast ratio 6000:1, static 1200:0 and it was praised for excellent black. My LCD with greater screen has dyn. 6500:1 static 1500:1 some it should be even blacker (I thought). A little bit darker black and the TV is perfect.
    But maybe its just personal taste, because I like low contrast, low brightness on any screen.
     
  9. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
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    There is a problem with the way that LCD makers describe the contrast ratios as those 'dynamic' references just compare the brightest it can get when the image is mostly bright with the darkest it can get when the image is mostly dark.

    It gets the higher score by dynamically varying the brightness of the screen to increase or reduce brightness across the screen as a whole.

    Thus while it works well with some material it can do less well when the image is mixed, say a bright street seen with a shadowy alley off to the side so the birghter main image tends to wash out the blacks that should be there.

    Try turning off the dynamic contrast option if you can and see if you prefer the black levels you get then.
     
  10. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    I'm trying to play with it right now...turned down backlight,decreased brightness..it is better, but still not my taste - I just cannot get used to slight greyness of black parts.

    The truth is that it depends on scene: when its mostly bright and just some dark places,it looks ok, but I'm night scene, it gets the grey tone.
     
  11. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
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    I'm afraid that if the night scenes are bothering you and you've already been adjusting the brightness down then you are probably hitting the limits of LCD blacks.

    A great black for an LCD is still not up to CRT standards or even plasma.
     
  12. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    Well, I've got some news. I bought today a component cable (as my DEV rec doesn't have HDMI). I plugged it in, connected with LCD. Now it looks like this: satellite connected via SCART with DVD recorder, and DVD recorder connected via SCART with LCD and simultaneously connected with LCD also via Component rgb cable. I don't know why, whether it is caused by component cable but the black colour looked visibly better-acceptable level for me finally. However, its not same all the times, I don't understand it-at a certain point I could clearly saw a dark black coulour on the screen, but later when watching other channels it looked a bit greyer.
    I'm confused with on problem - component cable is plugged correctly (on my LCD it is EXT4), but when I switch channel to EXT4 I gives me message "Out of range" - what does it mean? I'm lost in this. I expected that I switch to EXT 4 and all content from DVD (recording on HDD, DVD discs, Divx on DVD medium) will be played via EXT4, but when it apparently switch to EXT2 (SCART cable connection). What does it mean?
     
  13. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    Well apparently I expected too much from LCD and it cannot reach the black level of CRT. But as I described below the issue with component cable, I experienced a nice, acceptable black colour even if backlight was on (to approx. 40%). The screen was nicely dark comparing to yesterday experience. Yesterday I could clearly see the lights from corners of the screen (mainly top left, bottom right and left)- I assume its the backlighting of LCD. Should it be visible?
     
  14. davepuma

    davepuma
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    In order to use component video, which is also known as YpBpR or YUV you will probably have to configure the output in the setup menu. I don't know if you are aware but component video doesn't carry audio, so you would need to connect an audio cable from the DVD to the TV (RCA phono = analogue red/white cable). TBH, there isn't that much difference between RGB SCART and component anyway but component video does support progressive scan. Check the manual to see if it is supported.
     
  15. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    I'm not quite sure what to change in setup. I'm getting through manual...
    I know that component does not carry audio, but my DVD does not have a single audio output, it has only classical cinch output left right - it should be sufficient. What's the benefit of progressive scan over RGB SCART?
     
  16. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
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    I think you may be up against something I mentioned earlier, according to your manual the DVD player can't output component and SCART RGB so you may find you'll have to make a change, see this bit in your manual :

    Selects the output from the AV1 terminal.
    Select “RGB 1 (without component)” or “RGB 2 (without
    component)” for RGB output.
    Select “Video (with component)” or “S Video (with component)”
    for component output (progressive output).
     
  17. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    MarkTaylor: thanks for advices, I appreciate that. It seems I solved it - I was my fault, I just needed to adjust setting in menu of TV when I'm switched to EXT4 (component) to component (because SHARP has a strange solution of component connection via some DVI reduction (and standard setting was set to PC, not Component). So now I can watch DVD via EXT4 Component and satellite via EXT1 SCART. However, it seems taht SCART connection from satellite to DVD cannot continue on to TV via component cable.
    I don't know why, maybe you know the answer, but today I again experienced a very nice black level when I plugged all cables (I tried to unplug the Scart from DVD to TV in order to test the Component cable) and turned on the TV. I could just barely see the lights in corners of TV (I described it yesterday) and black was acceptably dark. But I'm still curious whether it is ok when I see those screen lights from corners - the brighter the screen/setting the more visible it is. It can be seen when the picture/screen is dark - no signal etc. Is this common to LCD screens, or is it just some negative feature of this TV model? Maybe I'm too sensitive to this, and too much used to deep black from CRT (that do not suffer from this screen lightning).
     
  18. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
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    What you are describing with the light in the corners it was is usually referred to as 'backlight bleed'. The way LCD technology works as you probably know is to have a bright light behind the panel and then the panel adjusts individual sub-pixels to let more or less light through giving you the colours that you see from the front of the screen.

    This differs from plasma where each sub-pixel generates its own light.

    Net result is that the quality of an LCD panel is determined to some extent by its ability to deliver a uniform level of light across the whole screen and the black level is set by the degree to which the sub-pixels can 'close' tight enough to stop the light coming through.

    Thus a common design problem with LCD's is stopping the light bleeding through around the edges of the screen. Some have virtually eliminated the problem, others do less well.

    Re the issue you have with the SCART signal not continuing as component; the RGB SCART does not use the same sync method as component despite the fact they are both RGB signals so it isn't just a matter of an electrical connection there would also be signal conversion to do and that isn't a common feature on components like a DVD player.

    More expensive amps do handle signal conversion, typically composite->S-Video->component and sometimes on to HDMI as well.
     
  19. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    Well, now I see why the promo videos in malls shows only bright vivid scenes..thus it is hard to test the ability of a LCD to work with black colour.

    I'm planning to replace my DVD rec for a new one, as this doesn't have HDMI, neither upscaling. If you have any good tips for good HDD DVD recorder, share it with me please.
     
  20. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
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    Can't help you much there, I've never found the need for a DVD recorder myself.

    I use Sky HD for recording and anything I want to keep long term I archive to a PC using an Archos 605 as that records .avi files that can be copied.
     
  21. xaxaxa

    xaxaxa
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    Interesting. Unfortunately, I don't have many opportunities for HD, but hope it will change within next few months.
    Concerning the black colour (again: ) I read a reiew of a similiar LCD model (some LC-42XD21E I think) that has contrast ration 6000:1 (my has 6500:1) and the guys praised it for excellent black colour (and rest colours after calibration! So, either I cannot set my TV properly, or my eyes are spoiled from CRT I had before. But, today I watched National geographic, with subtitles, and noticed that the black background of subtitles was perfectly black, looked much much (beautifully) blacker that rest of the screen when there was a dark scene (eg.night). I don't understand it.
     

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