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connected laptop to 436xde via VGA

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by a5ian300zx, Oct 25, 2005.

  1. a5ian300zx

    a5ian300zx
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    i've just connected the pioneer 436xde via VGA to my laptop.

    just to see what it like the quality.


    Pioneer res running was running at 1280 x 768. (Is this the highest res the pioneer supports?)

    It was amazing. really clear and sharp. also watched a HDTV demo of pioneer 506/436 downloaded from pioneer website. it looked proper vivid and sharp.
    Perfect.

    has any one else tried or/is connected the palsma to Pc or Laptop.
     
  2. kamaran

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    I think thats its native resolution and therefore its highest. I'm quite looking forward to running some high def demos on my PC using this method.

    Where in London are you based mate?
     
  3. a5ian300zx

    a5ian300zx
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    i'm from NW London, Wembley
     
  4. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Getting audio with it might be interesting if your using the Pioneer plasma speakers...... Pity feeding it a PC's DVI output is so difficult and disapointing.......
     
  5. kamaran

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    while we are on the subject then, how would i get audio out from my laptop to the media box? There is only a headphone socket on my laptop as far as I can see.
     
  6. TheDoctor

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    Hi a5ian300zx

    I have my XDE connected to my PC permanantly. HiDef video through the XDE's VGA input is excellent, but this bypasses the media box. This can be good but also problematic (e.g. "tearing" artifacts when watching a movie from the PC @ 60Hz).

    I connect my PC to the XDE using a component cable (Nvidia 7800GT graphics card with component-HDTV output). This takes the quality one step further - superb/cleaner picture and no artifacts. This is because the media box adjusts the output frequency of the video. With this type of set-up you can get superb playback of 720p and 1080i video from the PC. If you get a chance to see it, you will realise the difference it makes.

    Regarding my audio, I pass it directly from my PC to my audio amplifier using a digital optical cable.

    All the best

    Doc
     
  7. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello all

    PDP-436XDE is 1024x768
    PDP-506XDE is 1280x768

    Anything higher resolution being Input on the HD15(VGA) port is being re-mapped by the Media Box.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  8. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Good to see someone else covering this topic...

    Having considered the latest Pioneer but eventually going with the Sony V40 LCD instead im curious. How does the Pioneer handle a 1080i desktop.
    1920x1080 via scaling. What about overscan and windows are you missing desktop or does the Pioneer allow manual movement/adjustment.

    I have briefly tested PC connectivity yet it seems Nvidia offer 60hz in 1920x1080 yet on my ati i was only able to run 30Hz (current drivers) however i could manually adjust a 720p and 1080i resolution to cure overscan therefore allowing complete fullscreen within windows enviroment.

    I also trying to get peoples views regarding sending a display a native resolution from a PC all the time or compare running 1080i desktop res output for 1080i material and 720p desktop for 720p playback.

    Pc scaling Vs display scaling any thoughts to what is best?
    Appreciate any feedback on this tricky but as yet not widespread topic.

    PS i also thought the 43" was 1024 and isnt the 50" actually like Panasonics 1366x768, my brothers 50" Panny looks good either in 1920x1080i 60Hz (nvidia) or native 1366x768 60Hz
     
  9. MAW

    MAW
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    No, Joe is right, 50" is 1280/768, not like the Panasonic. The display will always look best with PC scaling, it's all done in the digital domain then, it's doing it after several D/A conversions that messes it up. That's why going HDMI into the screen does not look as bad as it 'should', though overscan is always a problem, it being designed to clip off 4-5% of the picture to avoid the junk around video signals.
    The adjusting overscan bit in NVidia drivers introduces another level of scaling in the PC. It's still sending 1920/1080, just it's sending the desktop inside a black frame. With the Panasonic, you can adjust on the panel, that's assuming it's a PHD, not a PV500.
     
  10. TheDoctor

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    Bad Robot

    With the XDE, You can output a 1080i desktop via component or HDMI, but NOT through the VGA input (max res = 1280x768). There is an element of overscan when you do not use the VGA input, but this can be adjusted on the PC. Both give superb playback of video, but when using component input of the Pio, PAL playback is "corrected".

    I use an Nvidia card and have both VGA and component outputs connected permanently in Nvidia's "clone" mode. When doing PC tasks, I use the VGA input (purely as a monitor). For video playback, I use the component input on the Pio - superior viewing quality with no judder or tearing.

    Regards

    Doc
     
  11. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Many laptops have a multimedia output socket (like a s-video socket with more holes?) this may carry sound if the correct breakout lead was supplied?
     
  12. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Ok thanks on the return feedback to my points.

    Your right MAW my brothers Panny is the older component/vga spec model but its rather dissapointing to here the new 50" Pioneer uses a lower resolution panel, even though the quality of them seems excellent, i suppose resolution isnt quite as quality related as some imagine.

    On the V40 its limited to HDMI only but with brief testing i think to have a completely viewable desktop with no overscan i ended up with a manually configured 1700+ x 1000 resolution, which as mentioned above is ideal for desktop purposes and then revert to standard resolutions with overscan for 1080i or 720p video playback.

    TheDoctor
    Are you then confirming you run 720p desktop for 720p playback and 1080i desktop for 1080i playback rather than running native and having the display do the scaling, your agreeing my thoughts are indeed better then to have the PC do the scaling?
     
  13. GrahamMG

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    I'd disagree mostly..... Marketing can make anything sound good though.... :rotfl:
     
  14. TheDoctor

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    Yes that is correct. I only use my PC to play HiDef material which is 720p, 1080i and 1080p. If I play 720p at 768p, this adds another scaling step which can have adverse effects on the video quality (it is not a standard HD resolution). Also, you will notice that 1080i/p plays superbly at 720p.

    Also the HDMI and component inputs can not simply accept a 768p signal because this is not a standard HDTV resolution. The Pioneer does not like input signals at native resolution (1280 x 768) and this causes "tearing" of video. I am still working on the native res using my external scaler with different settings (this has taken hours and hours of my time!!!!!!!!). For now, I am taking a break so I can actually enjoy the panel and watch some movies!!!!!

    Also, what you have to realise is that the media box has a scaler, and the panel itself also scales internally (it only likes certain resolutions at certain rates). This a currently a problem with most plasmas which is why many people choose projectors for their flexibility.

    Doc
     
  15. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Ok thanks for clearing it up.

    Well tbh although its not perfect but from discussions here it seems my LCD V40 suits HTPC everybit as much as the Pioneer judging by the manual resolutions ive obtained resolving the overscan.

    I had considered changing to the Pioneer as it has better blacks but as gaming is also a huge part of my requirements preferred the 8ms LCD panel.
    Both great displays in my opnion with their own benifits.

    My only limiting factor was the ATI card handling 30Hz in 1080i resolution.
    Will have a nice new HTPC built within the month to take full use of it

    Opting for:
    64 X2 3800 CPU
    2GB Corsair 3500 (get stable overclock to at least 4200 speed)
    Silverstone LC14 s case
    Asus Premum Motherboard with silent pipe
    ibm/hitachi 500Gb sata 16mb cache
    Nvidia silent cooled 6200

    Software: MCE 05 / Theatre Tek / VLC / M Player Classic

    Graham MG
    I disagree with your point.
    Guarntee you couldnt tell between different models all showing hi-def which was a 1024 / 1280 / 1366 / based panels. My own assumption is that quality of a screen isnt just governed by the panels resolution, come on man go compare a 37" Panasonic to a 50" for a typical example i wouldnt say the 50" 1366 panel looks much better if any than the 37" 1024 based panel.
     
  16. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    bad robot

    You have no idea just how many 'Hours' some folk have accumulated wearing their AV Anoraks. :)

    If you spend all day looking at these things its not too difficult to know what to look for.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  17. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Ah you have a point but because my post count here is low doesnt mean im an entire noob neither.

    I compared quite a few models all running HD 1080i Satelite being demonstrated all next to each other within a good local av store. My thoughts are that if the scaling capibilities are good then having a display @ 1024 res and one @ 1366 doesnt immediately become aparent which ones which, particulary to the general customer. Hey dont get me wrong im sure come widespread native 1080p displays it will be much more noticable but comparing between a 1024x768 and 1366x768 panel with only a benifit of 324 horizontal pixel difference isnt such a big deal particulary at tv viewing distances.

    I however choose the V40 as it had a higher resolution but mainly because PC usage and the fact a 1080i desktop, particulary text on such a model would be less scaled looking than a 43" Pioneer or as seems even the 50"
    Of course PC connectivity may not be a biggy for most but was a big feature for my own requirements.

    X360 may look slightly less jagged too but still minimal benifit over a 1024x768 display, just my opnion.

    If anything id say the new 43" Pioneer offers better imagary showing less digital mpeg compression with better blacks than the V40 i bought and i compared them directly next to each other on several occasions with the euro 1080i feed.

    Still both excellent units though
     
  18. MAW

    MAW
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    As one metal man to another, it's not the post count that Joe goes on, it's what you write. Emmental cheese springs to mind re some of your argument/statements. As a keen PC user, a bit of research would have bought you a MUCH more PC friendly display for less money.
     
  19. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Oh dear, its not arguing and im not trying to disrespect anyone im only giving an opnion. If you guys think most people will see a difference in 300+ pixels from 6 feet or more back then yes by all means tell me im completely wrong here, i certainly wasnt able to tell.

    As for choosing a bad display for PC usage, tell me again how i have?
     
  20. MAW

    MAW
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    Poor display choice:- Because the media box pioneers only take native res on VGA, which they internally process in such a way you can't stream video without tearing. You can't get native res on HDMI, and the weird resolutions people use to get rid of overscan do not help PQ. The business models are much better suited to HCPC use. Media box versions are fine for a quick bit of surfing, or photos, powerpoint etc, no problems there. For folks who wish to use a PC as a main AV source, you can do so much better, that's all.
     
  21. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Interesting but i dont have a Pioneer, your saying i made a bad choice when i own a V40.

    Consider this the majority of panels are now becoming 1366x768 and your right few models will offer native from a PC. The forums are littered with people having that problem.

    Having HDMI only as my connective option is not a drawback on my model even the S series with VGA input still doesnt offer native resolution output which is usually 1360 not the full 1366. Im also fully aware HDMI is for HDTV resolutions, but some manual tweaks were possible on the ATI testing i done.

    If i were to run a Sky HD satellite or currently unavailable new HD format then these would output of course in their 720p / 1080i resolutions matching their material. The panel of course scales these to native, now what ive been discussing is the point that when using the PC for multimedia playback then i set the resolution on the PC to match the content being played, hence this is then the same principle as any raw 720p / 1080i source and gets scaled by the display as normal. Ive even tried to get feedback regarding if this is the best solution which "TheDoctor" thankfully helped on. I dont think too many of us are too caring how spreadsheets etc look on a plasma / LCD lets concentrate on entertainment.

    I did mention running different resolutions to cure the overscan from within windows enviroment for general applications but thats all. Seems different models do a better job of it than others just as some run a 1080i desktop better than others.

    I would put forward that the best option ive found is to actually run an additional TFT from a computer or use a laptop for the more mundane duties and keep a larger display such as a plasma or LCD as the secondary display mainly for multimedia running in either a 1280x720 or 1920x1080 mode/

    Having done lots of testing in this regard mainly with my monitors & projector in the past im talking only what ive tried not assuming.
     
  22. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello bad robot

    Please be assured Post Counts count for very little :)

    Your already on track that the pixel count is only part of the story - input compatibility, user menu options, colour banding, colour fidelity , Film and Video deinterlacing etc... all count and whilst on a first glance a lot of folk wont notice any 'issues' with an HD Source its the job of your dealer to know what they are and guide you to the best solution to meet your requirements.

    I believe if you had been in touch with any of the 'usual suspects' on these threads you would have been dissuaded from a PlasmaTV (with Media Box) or Integrated PlasmaTV and instead been steered towards a Plasma Display as they are a better match for a Power PC user.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  23. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Thanks for a reply that actually has some technical information rather than a looking down on "Joe" some of you guys posts did seem like a little chastiising is all.

    Im happy with my "SONY V40 LCD" and was only curious to how the Pioneer performed as it was a model i considered.

    It seems some got confused with talking of the resolutions that i actually owned the Pioneer, and i kept the V40 after testing as i was able to do at home with having had the set on appro for over a week prior to buying. Also having the 8ms panel was imo a extra benifit even if the Pioneer to me looked actually better for TV imo, as you say theirs more to it than resolutions and thats what i originally said when "Graham MG" implied something else.
     
  24. GrahamMG

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    Absolutely spot on!
     
  25. GrahamMG

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    I'm sorry but I didn't imply anything.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bad robot
    i suppose resolution isn't quite as quality related as some imagine.





    I'd disagree mostly..... Marketing can make anything sound good though....

    I'll stand by that answer as an accurate response to your question, nothing more nothing less, and of course pixel count is only one of a great many thngs that make the difference, no-body is denying that at all. The fact that you didn't choose the Pioneer sort of re-enforces the point :D I am curious about the comment about TV being better via the Pioneer as the internal freeview box on the media unit I always thought looked pretty poor and that was in my BBC days......Freeview can actually look OK on some screens using an external freeview box (the Sony freeview box for instance, being unbiased).
     
  26. Joe Fernand

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    Hello Bad Robot

    The limitation on the Digital Inputs with most Plasma Displays revolves around certain Video Resolutions at 50Hz.

    You can (for example) Input 1366x768P at 60Hz on both Digital (DVI or HDMI) plus 1366x768P on Analogue at 50Hz into the Panasonic PHD8 and Fujitsu P50XHA40US Displays (Native 1366x768 pixels) that get a fair few recommendations on these threads.

    This to me seems a much better option/compromise for a PC user vs. using a Digital Input (HDMI) that limits you to Video resolutions only.

    I don't doubt you have an excellent image on your LCD TV its just that a lot of us have been there and done it with the TV models and found them a pain for PC use.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  27. GrahamMG

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    This is very good free advice from someone who cares about quality and a satisfied customer. Respect where respect is due :smashin: Good advice isn't always in line with what a person is expecting the answer to be but, I know I always answer in good faith, Joe and others do the same on a regular basis.
     
  28. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Nobodys questioning the experience of others here or their ability/desire to help particulary you guys that do this sort of thing for a living however....

    Dont PCs only offer 1360x768 not 1366x768 with standard drivers without powerstrip or something else trying to force this, i didnt think 1366 was possible unless powerstrip etc manages it.

    I think this discussion is getting away from the point perhaps you guys steering more to professional/commerical based displays and uses than what most people here are using a large flatscreen for. Its interesting to hear about limitations regarding the media boxes but then for video playback HDMI should be used not VGA. Of course for entertainment ala HD in particular I think its already been covered that 720p and 1080i are working fine and running the Pc out to match the source as an option.
    Regarding the Pioneer looking better for TV i actually meant general viewing, to me its overall picture abilities are better than the V40 nothing to do with the internal tuners but on a whole. Peoples preference is subjective but i would of liked the performance of the Pioneer in general picture imagary but the 8ms and better gaming abilities of the V40 appealed to my requirements.

    Like i said testing was done before putting down my cash as it fullfilled my needs. 30Hz wasnt so good at 1080i but this was limited by my card. Manuall resolutions curing the overscan wernt bad at all even for internet browsing.

    The V40 takes a 50/60hz signal too via HDMI and also has a 1366x768 panel. 1:1 isnt possible but most dont need that for entertainment purposes. Compare its price to a TH-42PHD8 which is only 1024 res and the 50PHD8 is going to cost much more yet achieve the same resolution, i think i made a good enough choice going with the LCD instead and ive no need to spend several hundred pounds on terminal boards on the models youve mentioned.

    Approx 40" was my limit in size too and im unaware of a plasma thats over 1024 resolution yet priced in a simular bracket. Yes with HDMI video resolutions only being supported but really most will only want 720p and 1080i material to look good as a priority morso over native 1:1 pixel mapping regards pc connectivity.

    I think my points with an additional screen or laptop is a viable solution too for anyone wanting to combine general apps/work requirements and yet still enjoying largescreen multimedia.

    Thanks for your comments...
     

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