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Connect VGA projector to HDMI receiver (non-HDCP)

Cl1ckBoom

Standard Member
Hey all

Ive got a Dell 2400 MP projector which has VGA, composite & s-video inputs.
I have a Marantz SR6004 receiver with hdmi out which Id like to use to connect to this projector - preferably.

Projector Native XGA 1024x768 scalable to 1600x1200
But some specs are ambiguous saying its also 1080i, doesnt make sense to me, anyone?

Im guessing its not HDCP compliant, but can anyone make my day by telling me otherwise? :D
Yay Dell for not publishing detailed spcecs.

So, my question is whats the best way forward?

Ive been pondering buying a cheapo HDMI to DVI/VGA type cable, but as you experts know its complicated.
My understanding is that using 2 cables, 1 for HDMI to DVI & 1 for DVI to VGA wont work, true?

My projector doesnt have Component Level input, contrary to what review sites will tell you if u google this model :mad:
But I do have composite in, & could technically buy 2 converter cables, 1 for HDMI to component & then componenet to composite, doable?

Also looked at people selling HDMI to VGA + Analog Audio out boxes rather than cables, any idea if they are all HDCP compliant?

Receiver has S-video & component outs, but being a new model its probably going to downscale to 420/520, yay Marantz for not being specific here!

I also have a laptop, which may be an option but prefer not, open to sugestions if thats much easier/free :)
It has HDMI out, VGA out & also a second external sound card with optical out so can give that digital into receiver, & then just plug projector into vga out.
I dont want to do complex setups each time so avoiding this path for now.

And lastly, lets ses if any of our options will also work when I buy a bluray player next month!

Thanks for your help folks, appreciated.

Cheers
 
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Cl1ckBoom

Standard Member
Thanks TrollSlayer, thats really cool, but 94 quid!
I can get this CE-LINK HDMI to VGA Box
for a third of that here in New Zealand, Im guessing would work the same?

Also, Im guessing your post means the projector is not HDCP, & realsitically I have no other cable choice except pluging something that will be HDCP compliant into the hdmi out?
S-video/composite not happening?

Cheers
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Are you sure the VGA input will not accept component ? You might need a VGA breakout lead, thats all.

HDMI is digital. DVI supports analogue (DVI-A), Digital (DVI-D) or both (DVI-I). Therefore, you cannot connect an analogue (VGA) projector to an HDMI output. The cables will usually not even fit together as there is a key in the DVI-A connector to stop it mating to a DVI-D.

An HD Fury2 might be the best bet. This will remove HDCP and give you a component output, with minimal quality loss. Not convinced the box you are looking at will remove HDCP in all cases...
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
HDCP is a digital encryption scheme applied to the HDMI (and sometimes DVI) Output of high value HD and SD content from a Source device.

VGA being an analogue input is not HDCP compliant.

Your AVR has to (by the terms of the HDMI adopter agreement) apply HDCP to its HDMI Output when the Source device connected (via HDMI) to the Input side of the AVR is applying HDCP to the source signal.

To connect the digital Output of the AVR to the Analogue Input of the Projector you have to do three things:

1. Convert the signal from Digital to Analogue.
2. Ensure the ‘converted to analogue’ signal is in a format the VGA port on the projector accepts.
3. Defeat HDCP.

You don’t get all of that on a budget!!!

Your projector has a certain number of pixels (you say its 1024 x768) and then ‘accepts and scales a limited range of Input signals.

If the HDMI Output of the AVR is not in a format the VGA port on the Projector accepts you will (in addition to using something like the HDF2 to convert Digital to Analogue plus Defeat HDCP) also need to re format the signal before it hits the VGA port of the Projector!!!

If you have a user manual for the Projector it should give you a list of supported signals on the VGA port!

HDF2 is one of the very few options you have in terms of defeating HDCP.

Joe

PS The ‘converter’ you link to makes no mention of defeating HDCP –its use is probably limited to being compatible with non-encrypted content.
 

Cl1ckBoom

Standard Member
Thankyou gentlemen
The seller of the above linked item tells me this box is HDCP compliant & will do the job for dvd/bluray. I noticed most normally state HDCP 1.2, are there any newer versions of this HDCP abomination, or any on their way out?

NoiseBoy, youre right I can use a vga to component splitter & dell says that will work on this projector.
Does that change he status quo?

Joe, thanks I dug in & found that the Dell projector supports a myriad of resoultions in scaled modes including 1080. So thats a good thing.
Count me in if u need vigilantes to 'defeat' HDCP ;)

The above box is available here for 25quid, so do you experts believe it may be worthwhile to give it a try?

I would also benefit by knowing what resolutions my AVR downscales when useing analogue output from a HDMI source, but yay Marantz for not being specific, any thoughts.
Can we expect most AVRs to provide better quality in s-video/component than in composite out?
Ie, would component/svideo give you 720p? Im happy with 720p, then the easiest option maybe to just buy a long s-video cable?
Im guessing composite will almost always be 480p?

Thanks again.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If an HDMI to VGA/Component converter box is HDCP compliant then you get No video Output from the box if the Input Source is applying HDCP to the Content stream.

The main purpose of a box like the HDF2 is that it is Not HDCP compliant as it will output an analogue HD video stream from High Value (High Definition) content.

Component Video is capable of carrying 720p, 1080i and 1080p HD video - Composite and S-Video are SD only so nowhere near as good.

Install the HDF2 on the Output of your AVR and connect it to the VGA port of your Projector and you can expect some pretty good quality HD viewing.

Joe
 

Cl1ckBoom

Standard Member
Thanks Joe, great insight, now I didnt use the word 'compliant' in that sense when I asked him.
So based on what youre saying, the seller should be telling me that it will NOT work with HDCP content?
Id still prefer to try out the $50 local option before the 95 pound one :D
I'll see if I can work out an arrangement to return if it doesnt work.

Next, my dvd player does 480p to 1020p upconversion.
It has both hdmi, component outputs & optical outputs.
If I play SD content, my TV still says its HD because of the upconversion.
Sorry I dont have a standard component video cable to try, so my next question is, do most players do upconversion via component as well or only through hdmi?

So, a possibility was to not use hdmi at all. ie,
Is it possible to connect the dvd player to the projector using a component to vga cable?
and connect the optical audio out to the receiver!? :)
Dell says the projector supports vga d-sub to component converter cabless for component input to projector.

I get the impression that the HDF2 is my only hdmi option, but I'd like to exhaust any other possibilities.

Thanks
 
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Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Yes you need to confirm if the converter can defeat HDCP.

Most DVD players with HDMI + 3RCA analogue will give you 720p/1080i (a few will do 1080p) - in future HD capable analogue out will disappear.

The HDF2 will Output RGBHV or YPbPr on it's HD15 (VGA) port - you can use a VGA cable to the Projector and set both to RGBHV or YPbPr - the latter will give you more menu options on the Projector when optimising your image.

Joe
 
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Cl1ckBoom

Standard Member
Hmm, I checked the composite to vga cable from my dvd player to projector & it worked ok.
But my projector ui doesnt show the details of the incoming signal, I'll do more research into it, IM sure there must a menu option to show it somewhere.
Besides, with the dvd player, its only the rare divx 720p that will matter, else normal dvds 480p doesnt matter, the humble rca composite cable has done a great job for years!

So, my new plan is to first invest in a bluray player & get some bluray discs.
Then, check out whats happening with the price of the HDF2 & other el cheapos.

I'll update this post with more info about how my dvd player is upscaling etc for others as a future reference.

Thanks everyone for your input, great forum :)
 

jakeyboy29

Standard Member
Hi there, I have kind of the same spec projector as you.

I intended to connect my xbox and computer both upto the projector with its vga input and its RCA input.

I currently connect my computer with a straight standard 7m VGA cable, and the quality is, ok. Its nowhere near 1080p, but its clear at 72".

the problem came with my xbox with its awkward output.
so i had to buy one of these
VGA HD AV CABLE/LEAD & OPTICAL OUTPUT FOR XBOX 360 UK | eBay UK
and connect that to my xbox. I then plugged the sound into a splitter, 3 Port AV Audio RCA Phono Selector Switch: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics along with my PC and record player. that went straight into the amp.
(jesus, this was awkward.) to the xbox 360 vga cable i connected this bad boy Female to Female VGA / SVGA Gender Changer Adapter | eBay UK
then stuck this on the other female input of it.
VGA to TV Converter S-Video RCA Out Cable Adapter UK | eBay UK

I could then run this wire 5m 3 RCA Phono Audio Video Cable Triple Lead AV TV GOLD | eBay UK (but a 2m longer one) into the projector, with an S-video input to spare!

the picture quality could be better with the use of shorter wires, and less awkward splitters, but it had to be done!

sorry for dragging on!
 

Cl1ckBoom

Standard Member
Thansk jakey, no worries mate good on you for sharing your experience.

I would think that since our projector is 1024x768 native, its never is going to be great in any hd resolution.
With 720, the scaling wont do too bad a job but 1080, im not surprised it would suck.
Im happy with 720 :) Anything over sd dvd is a step up really

I see some existing bluray players do allow hd over component out, but thats what I need to investigate before buying a model, sometime nex month we should have queens bday sale down here :D
Might se if any have 720 over vga out, then it would be choice!

Im also going to play sd dvd on my current dvd player which is supposed to be able to do upconversion to 1080 & check if there is any noticable difference on my projector.

Will update this thread with my observations.

Cheers
 

frankaai

Standard Member
im kind of facing the same problem, im using my dell laptop which has only a vga connection, i bought a vga to hdmi converter to conect to my tv, only thing is it does not play sound, i connected a creative 7.1 surround sound to my laptop, now i want to buy a 7.1 reciever to play through my laptop for the speakers and connect the tv to my laptop as well, im really confused on how to go about it, my laptop only has vga :/ any help would be great!!
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
VGA doesn't support Audio so there is always a second connection to cater for Audio!

Some VGA > HDMI 'Converters' will include an Audio Input and will embed the Audio into the HDMI signal - most are 2.0 (Analogue audio) a very few are Optical or Coaxial and of those a very few can cater for 5.1.

Unless your laptop is HDMI equipped or you have an external (USB) device to breakout '7.1/5.1' stick with what you have!

Joe
 

Cl1ckBoom

Standard Member
Hi,
As stated vga is video out only.
does your tv have vga/dvi input?
U may not need to use a converter to hdmi, ur tv might just work direct.

For sound, couple of options:
1)
Does ur laptop have 3.5mm jacks for sound out on full 5.1? most laptops do.
Then, simple option for receiver is to buy one that has rca inputs per channel.
Then just buy 3 cables of 3.5mm jack to rca converter & plug into rca input of receiver. Done.

2)
Does ur latop hav digital out or optical out? Would u consider buying a usb external card that has opt out? That way, just buy an optical cable & plug to receiver, easy 1 wire connection.

Good luck
 

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