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Connect PC (DVI + Sound) to TV (HDMI)

Discussion in 'TVs' started by tjementum, Jul 30, 2005.

  1. tjementum

    tjementum
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    Hello

    I’m about to by a Panasonic TH42PV500E.

    I want to use my Microsoft Media Center PC both for TV, DVD and PC/Surfing, but how should I connect the PC to the TV?

    I want optimal sound and picture, so the video signal should defiantly be a DVI -> HDMI signal. The Panasonic has both HDMI and VGA, but no DVI.

    But what about the sound? My PC has a SPDIF and of cause mini-jacks (7.1 surround channel). Is there any way to get a full HDMI signal with both digital video and sound form the PC to the TV?

    Another twist is that the cable should be 10m, because my PC is in another room (noise you know). I read that DVI cables should not be more that 5m, while HDMI can be longer.

    Finally, I’m also going to by an AVR335 Harmon Kardon Surround sound receiver, which should be connected to the PC for both stereo music and surround sound music (using SPDIFF). But I want to be able to se TV in the living room, while hearing music in the kitchen. I haven’t bought this yet, so if another receiver would help me out here, please let me know. The AVR635 has HDCD Processing, whatever that means!

    Thomas
     
  2. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    tjememtum

    Lots of points to consider.

    PlasmaTV vs. Plasma Display - is the PV500 the best model for you. It has the looks, it has the 'HD Ready' logo but when your considering using a PC as a Media Hub the soon to be launched 8 Series Plasma Display models from Panasonic UK may be a better option.

    HDMI is a video connector - keep in mind whilst you can transmit nice crisp Digital video between your PC's DVI Output and the TV's HDMI Input the video signal has to be in a format the TV understands; this means setting the PC to Output at a refresh rate and pixel count compatible with the HDMI Input.

    The PV500 is an 'odd' beast in that it has 1024x720 pixels - you wont find that setting on your PC! And you wont find it supported on the HDMI Input either - you'll have to Output say 1280x720 (using some aftermarket software to override your Graphics card settings) and then let the Display down scale to its native pixel and refresh rates!!!

    The soon to be released TH-42PHD8 (1024x768) with Optional HDMI and DVI Input boards will also be 'HD Ready' and a better match for your PC - its also likely to have a lot less gremlins than the PV500 seem to include and be far more PC and User friendly with better user and integrator menus to ensure you can fully adjust the Display to best match your video and PC sources.

    TV Sound - keep in mind the TV is Stereo only so whilst HDMI has the ability to transmit and receive Multichannel audio in this case your limited to playback via the included 'smart sound' stereo speakers.

    DVI cables - its perfectly feasible to transmit your Digital video signal over 10m, not all DVI cables will cope though. You require something that's 'over sized' and designed for longer runs. See http://www.bettercables.com

    Multiple Zone - Multiple Source audio - plenty of units offer this feature; though not sure if the HK does Multiple Source or not. More homework required.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS HDCD - see http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/hdcd/hdcdabout.aspx
     
  3. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    However - you could create a custom 1024x720 mode with Powerstrip. This might not be an optimum solution - as Windows will not think you have a 16:9 display - but it IS possible to get a PC to drive non-standard resolutions relatively easily.

    Loads of us are running with Windows in 1024x576/50i output modes with our Media Center PCs with Radeon cards, so we can drive our TVs via VGA->RGB SCART connectors and Powerstrip, rather than the dreadful TV out options. (This gives you a square pixel, 1:1 line-mapped display in RGB)

    However driving a 16:9 display in 1024x768 mode will also confuse the hell out of Media Center - as it expects all displays to be square pixel.

    Sure some software (including MCE) lets you manually compensate for this - but if you do this there is no real difference to running in a custom 1024x720 mode. And you get the benefit of 1:1 line mapping if you view 720p content.

    Yep - HDMI audio to a standalone TV is probably overkill. It is far more suitable for feeding to a standalone home cinema amp. For current sources an optical or co-ax SPDIF feed to a surround amp is as good - and if you only have a stereo TV then you may not notice a huge difference between digital audio and a quality sound card (external models may be slightly better as they are likely to have less analogue noise)

     
  4. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Stephen Neal

    I keep forgetting its only the 37" PV500 that's 1024x720 - the 42" is 1024x768!!!

    The 'problem' with the HDMI port being you'll need to send it 1280x720 from your PC - it wont accept PC resolutions only Video resolutions.

    I still say the PHD8 will be a better match for anyone wanting to use a Media Centre PC.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  5. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Ah - I hadn't realised the HDMI input on the display was hobbled to video resolutions only on the PV500...

    BTW - is the 42" different resolution to the 37" - in every dealer I've seen it in they've quoted both as 1024x720.
     
  6. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Stephen Neal

    I think I'm not alone in relying on an early PDF that arrived from Panasonic that did state 1024x720 for the 42" PV500 - though in reality its only the 37" model that has that resolution.

    The HDMI Input is no different to most on the market - the manufacturers can get away with a limited 'sub set' compatibility with Video only resolutions and seem happy to take advantage of that specification.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  7. tjementum

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    Wow... thanks for great answers.

    Hmmm, the Danish website states that both the 42" and 37" are 1024*768. It looks like that is wrong, but as long as the 42" has the higher resolution, I’m glad.

    The UK website for the 42" says: Number of Pixels: 786,432 (1,024 x 768) pixels

    What does 786,432 mean?

    Hmmm, Pc resolutions vs. video resolutions. What does that mean? I never heard about it before. I thought that I could just run the 1024*768 or 1360*768 on my PC. Please elaborate. Will I have trouble getting MCE to output a widescreen picture, and at the same time have the optimal PC image for surfing?

    PHD8. Yet another thing I never heard about. Any ideas of when it will come, and will have the same price tag as the TH42PV500E? Is it a Plasma or LCD? I want a Plasma, and I don't want to wait several months. Also I like that the TV has a TV tuner as a backup, if I have to reinstall the Media Center, or if the disk crashes.

    Thomas
     
  8. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Thomas,

    786,142=1024x768 (i.e. the total number of pixels on the screen)

    Video resolutions which HDMI will accept are those such as 1280x720 (i.e. 720p) and 1920x1080 (i.e. 1080i). So a computer resolution such as 1360x768 will not be accepted by the HDMI connector.

    I think the Panasonic PHD8 model will be available later this year and is a plasma with 1024x768 resolution (42") or 1366x768 (50"). Hope this helps.

    Steve
     
  9. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Thomas

    Pixel count - Panasonic released an inaccurate PDF file when the PV500 was first launched and lots of folk (me included) went with the information in the original PDF.

    42" PV500 - 1024x768 = 768,432.

    PC vs. Video - you'll be familiar with VGA (640x480), SVGA (800x600), XGA (1024x768) and SXGA (1280x1024); these are all recognise PC resolution signals.

    Video Resolution signals include 720x480, 720x576, 1280x720, 1920x1080 and as the HDMI connector is mostly to be used as a Video Input/Output most HDMI sockets will work with the above Video resolution signals.

    There's no reason for any of the PC signals not to be passed via an HDMI socket its simply that the manufacturers of the Display and Projector kit that includes HDMI sockets can save a few pennies/pounds if they don't include firmware and hardware that works with both PC and Video resolution signals.

    Panasonic also produce a range of Plasma Display products - simple panels with user configurable slot in video cards; these have consistently proven to be the best option for Home Theatre use.

    The NEW Series 8 Displays are pegged for UK/Euro release in Sept 05 and I'd be putting the 1024x768 42" unit at the front of your wish list.

    Best regard

    Joe
     
  10. tjementum

    tjementum
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    Also thanks for great answers from you Stephen.

    This is exactly what I’m doing on my current CRT, and I spend 2 weeks getting the optimal PowerStrip configuration + soldering the vga -> scart cable. I was hoping that Plazma + digital signal setup would make this a lot easier.

    I never really thought of that. If I don’t run the native TV resolution, I won’t get the optimal PC experience, right? So I would hate to go for 1360*768… but of cause a good widescreen experience without cropping or stretching the picture is priority number one.

    You just made this my number one concern :rolleyes: Anyone running a Media Center on a HDTV Plasma with none square pixels? How does Media Center handle this?


    Agree. I don’t care about the signal being an analog signal. But I don’t se any audio in on the TH42PV500E, so if I connect the TV with a DVI -> HDMI cable… how am I supposed to get the audio from the PC to the TV, and make sure that this audio is played when switching to HDMI mode?

    I want to use this for normal day-to-day TV use. But when I watch a movie, I want to use SPDIF -> Surround Sound Receiver for audio and the same DVI -> HDMI for video. Right? Or would you say that I should just use this setup always?

    Current sources! What do you mean by that?

    Thomas
     
  11. tjementum

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    :blush: In Denmark we use . (dot) and not , (comma) for thousand separator, so I got confused.

    Exactly what does that mean?

    That I can’t get a 1024*768 or 1360*768 resolution to display on the Plasma
    or that the Plasma will downscale or upscale to a video resolution?

    I’m not sure I understand this. If the TV has a 1024*768 resolution, why can’t I send a 1024*768 HDMI signal without down- or upscaling? Will I only be able to do that using the VGA port?

    Thomas
     
  12. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Thomas,

    As Joe mentioned earlier, it is the manufacturers of display devices that want to save a few pounds by not including firmware and hardware to allow the inclusion of computer resolutions. Blame them for their short-sightedness!

    I'm sure the VGA will allow 1360x768 and 1024x768 resolutions.

    Steve
     
  13. tjementum

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    Hi Steve

    Sorry for being slow, but I still don't get it. Are you telling me that I will not be able to use PC DVI -> HDMI, and the only way to get the PC to TV working is by using the VGA port?

    Any Plasma (or LCD) screens on the market now that will allow PC DVI -> HDMI?

    My problem is that I have to get the cable through 2 brick walls, and the DVI is to big. The HDMI is just small enough. Even the VGA is too big, and I don’t want to solder again.

    What about the old TH42PHD7BK. Can I buy a HDMI slot for this screen that will allow PC DVI -> HDMI?

    Will the TH42PHD8 support PC DVI -> HDMI?

    :lease:

    Thomas
     
  14. tjementum

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    OK. Joe seams to have already answered my question, form my last post. I WILL be able to use DVI -> HDMI, but I will have to configure the PC to 1280x720. This will also resolve the widescreen and none square pixel problem, that Stephen pointe out. Put it sure will make the PC experience bad.

    Will the TH42HDP8 solve this? My fear with the TH42HDP8 is that I will not find the same great prices as on the TH42PV500E.

    I guess I have to take my MCE to the shop, and se how it all looks.

    Thomas
     
  15. tjementum

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    I just talked to Panasonic support, and they told me that this will not work! Joe have you tried this? Anyone?

    So now I have the choice between a VGA analog connection or to wait for the TH42PHD8.

    I looked at prices for TH43PHW7, and they are way to expensive. So I decided to go for the VGA connection, unless someone tells me that Panasonic support is wrong.

    Thomas

    PS: I also talked to Pioneer support and there Plasma TV has the same issue.
     
  16. Joe Fernand

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    Hello Thomas

    DVI>HDMI - as long as your PC can be set to output a signal that's compatible with the HDMI socket (a video signal) you can connect a PC to both the Pioneer XDE and Panasonic PV500 models via their HDMI inputs.

    Technical Support - both Pioneer and Panasonic Consumer support will not have much experience with connectivity of PC's and will have a 'stock' answer saying it wont work; please be assured as long as you set your PC to a supported signal it will work.

    PC Analogue vs. PC Digital - if you have a graphics card with a Digital (DVI) output it will generally look sharper and cleaner than one with an Analogue HD15 (VGA) Output.

    PC on a PlasmaTV - the Pioneer XDE and Panasonic PV500 both have Analogue HD15(VGA) PC Inputs; that's what the Tech Support folk will suggest you use.

    The Panasonic 7 and 8 Series Plasma Display models have optional HDMI and DVI Inputs boards - the 8 Series is the better option for many UK/Euro customers as its HDMI Board is compatible with High Definition 720P and 1080i signals at both 50Hz and 60Hz; the 7 Series models only support 720P and 1080i at 60Hz on their optional DVI and HDMI Inputs.

    DVI vs. HDMI - keep in mind you can use a DVI to HDMI cable and simply add an adapter to the HDMI end of the cable to convert it back to a DVI connector; that way you can push the HDMI connector through the wall.

    See http://www.bettercables.com/cohdv.html

    I'm guessing the TH-42PHD8 with a DVI Board will be around £2.7K when it launches.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  17. tjementum

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    Hi Joe

    Thanks for taking your time. :smashin:

    Hmm... I'm already way over my budget. But it sure sounds like the right solution. But I'm not convinced that the Media Center TV Tuner + output is as good as the TH42PV500 build in tuner. And it is always nice with a backup

    My ATI X700 + PowerStrip should support every output.

    I'm just thinking. Could I connect the computer by both DVI -> HDMI (for TV/DVD viewing) and VGA -> VGA (for Internet Surfing and PC use)? I might have to changes resolution when I go from HDMI to VGA input. :rolleyes:

    Thomas
     
  18. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    I suspect you are right - the quality of the internal DVB-T tuner in the plasma, and an external MCE tuner are unlikely to be massively different. The major difference will be between the MCE PC and the Plasma's de-interlacing and scaling performance. (There is also the issue that unless you are using Reclock or similar the PC video output won't be locked to the DVB-T video signal, so you might get the odd dropped frame or similar) The major benefit of course is that MCE allows you to pause Live video, and record from the EPG etc. (Though be warned there is a major bug with MCE losing listings when used with a DVB-T card at the moment - hopefully to be fixed in a forthcoming update...)

    Where an MCE PC comes into it's own connected to an HD display is when you are replaying HD video or high-resolution photos etc. In the US you can also receive OTA HD using MCE - so that would be a benefit.
     
  19. FluffyFromTheUk

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    hey guys my 1st post here... had a good read of this one. I have just puchased a TH42PV500, my plan is to connect it to my pc... seems its not as straight forward as i had seemed! :thumbsdow

    However once connected i want to make sure i can Surf the Net and Play online games, i think the best option would be using the Analogue HD15 (VGA) Output?

    or shall i use the HDMI with Powerstrip?

    am i right here?


    thanks in advance.
     
  20. tjementum

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    Hi there, and welcom

    I've decided to buy the 500 as well, and have it right in front of me. I tried connection via both VGA and DVI->HDMI. Both works, but VGA is best.

    For connecting to a computer VGA is always, much better. Actually it is very very god. A digital connection in native resolution could not be much better. So go for the VGA connection, and you will be very happy.

    But I can confirm that DVI -> HDMI works. The resolution on the PC is automatically set to 720x1280, so the image is both downscaled (vertical) and upcaled (horizontal). This is of cause very noticeable when using Windows. I triede changing the resolution, but the TV goes black.

    For viewing TV (e.g. through Media Center) both produces a sharp picture. But... and there is a MAJOR but. The VGA resolution 1024x768 is a 4:3 format, while the 720x1280 is a 16:9 format. That is because the Plasma has none square pixels. When using the VGA connection a 4:3 PAL signal is therefore using the whole screen (where it should have sidebars). A 16:9 DVD movie on the other hand is shown as Letterbox on the screen (this should show in full screen). So a lot of stretching is going on, which essentials means that the VGA in native resolution, is not any good for TV/DVD use :rolleyes:

    If anyone has a solution, hack or suggestion, please let me know. That is I want to use the native 1024x768 resolution over VGA, but I want Media Center, to know that the screen is 16:9, and show DVD in full screen and 4:3 signals with sidebars or smart stretch.

    I talk to so many people and read for days before buying, and no one told me or wrote about this. :suicide:

    Thomas

    Thomas
     
  21. netley

    netley
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    I am trying to connect my Elonex Artisan with DVI out to an HDMI in on a Pioneer 43 HDE using a DVI HDMI cable but to no avail

    The PC doesnt seem to recognise the DVI connection when present and goes black when I try to force a resolution and then goes back to 1028-768

    What resolution should I use? How do I force it?

    I can get a VGA connection-is this likely to be much worse? Will I be able to have a VGS connection and an DVI connection that I can switch between depending on use
     
  22. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    netley

    Same issue as on all Plasma TV's - the HDMI Input only works with Video resolutions signals, though some folk claim they can set a PC to some odd xxxx x yyy pixel count and get what they believe is a 'direct' connection.

    Try setting your PC to 1280x720P@60Hz and you should at least get an image on screen.

    I find its useful (though costly - approx £120) to have a 1:2 VGA or DVI/HDMI Distribution amp to hand when trying to get your PC to work with one of these Plasma TV's; that way you can have your PC's 'monitor' attached to the PC so even if the Plasma TV goes blank you can still see what your doing.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  23. netley

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    thanks joe

    when i try to set my pc to this resoln it goes blank and then goes back to 1024x768- how do i get around that?

    cheers
     
  24. FluffyFromTheUk

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    Hey guys thanks for the advice,

    I think il try both connections i.e VGA and DVI-> HDMI, will have to see which one works better for me, althought i have heard that the DVI is far more superior in picture quality because it is a digital signal.

    I am worried that when i try to play games it wont work? Has anyone here played games on Plasma via PC... I am eagerly awaiting to play Counter Strike!
    But will the game automatically play in 1024x768 reso meaning the plasma wont recognise this?

    Hope this is not the case...

    any help appreciated.


    kindest Regards
     
  25. tjementum

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    Trust me. I've tried both DVI->HDMI on the TH42PV500e. VGA is better for computer use. Read the whole thread and you will understand why.

    Thomas
     
  26. FluffyFromTheUk

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    thanks Thomas, i will go for the VGA as recommended.

    So what cable will i need? Does the PV500 have a VGA socket built in? so i will need a standard VGA->VGA cable yes?

    Sorry for the questions, i havnt yet recieved the plasma yet, will be deliverd in a couple of weeks, just wanted to get everything ready before it arrives. :)

    I was planning to connect the PC to plasma via VGA so i can surf the web and play games on PC, and then have a playstation connected via Scart socket so i can watch dvd's etc on that. Is that doable?

    Thanks again.


    regards.
     
  27. netley

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    I got the same response from Pioneer support but similarly there are people saying it can be done............but I havent got there yet!

    Elonex say they have got DVI/HDMI working when you speak to them
     
  28. Joe Fernand

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    netley

    Your now straying into PC configuration territory - as others have mentioned you need to download a copy of PowerStrip (assuming its compatible with your PC) as it 'overrides' your Graphics cards automatic settings.

    See http://www.entechtaiwan.net/util/index.shtm

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  29. mr_b_at_home

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    Just going by what was said before...I take it you can play WMV HD material through the VGA connection and get the full "high definition" benefit from it :confused:

    Cheers

    Craig.
     
  30. Mr Eddy

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    I have tried a variety of resolutions over VGA. I prefer 1360 x 768 , as long as you have configured the PV500 PC menu to receive WXGA.

    Can anyone tell me if you can send 1360 x 768 to HDMI connector via DVI out. Does the HDMI give you similar options, or does it only support video modes?
     

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