Confused about which subs - Help please!

Tim J

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Hi, After hours of research I am more confused than ever over which subwoofer to buy.

The room which is approx. is 9m (w) x 10m (L) x 5m (H).

I have Kef R series speakers R700 (F), R500 (R), R600 (C), Q800DS (Sur).

The room isn't finished yet but I plan to buy a Yamaha A2030 AV receiver.

No I am confused which sub to buy. The room has had cables at first fix installed so I am not going to have flexibility about where to place the Subs. I have wired some fisual Havana xl sub cables to sit with the front speakers. So my plan is they will be front firing subs and sit inside the main front speakers. I guess this is a challenge when installing cables at first fix (but it is nice and tidy).

So, I am thinking of buying either....
  1. 2 x Monolith+ Subs
  2. 2 x SVS PB12's
  3. 1 or 2 Monitor Audio RXW12
  4. 1 x Rel 528 (can't afford 2)
  5. 1 x Rel G1
However I am really confused which one. I suspect I will use 50% Movie, 25% Music and 25% gaming. It ideally needs to be Gloss Black to match my Kefs too.

I assume I simply plug the subs into the cable via LFE and let the Yamaha YPAO do its stuff.

However any advice or recommendations welcomed. My budget is ~£1500 for subs but if that's not going to do it then maybe £1000 now and £1000 later in the year.

Thanks Tim
 
Yes 2 Mono's as Dan said if you are talking commercial subs, but if you are a little bit handy you could get some cabinets made for about £150 for a pair of 50cm cubes in unfinished mdf.

2 x Fi Q15 drivers £700 approx
1 x Behringer Inuke NU6000DSP 6000w amp £375
odds and ends £30 (cables connectors etc)

And you would have 2 subs that would kick 2 Monos butt or anything else this side of £2500 (excluding the USC18 @ £1895).

See the thread below which is one of many that have done the same.
2 x Fi Q 15" Build | AVForums
 
Keith's has it spot on, if your budget is 1500 and don't want the Hassel of building then look at the usc 15 and if you don't mind diy then it's worth looking at you can even get the cabinets made and delivered for about 120 then as Keith's says if the amp and driver cost 1100 then that will leave you some Money for the finish, be that veneer doing it your self or getting a body shop to spray them.

The usc 15 would be like 2 mono and more and the diy would be like 4 and more.

And this would be like a usc 18 in terms of performance but with the added benefit of a flatter response.
 
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I would also consider 2x XXLS400 with a good quality EQ system, as your on YPAO a good SUB EQ is even more important.

Sometimes the experience is more important than paper statistics, and two good quality and VFM SUBS like the XXLS400's with a very good EQ could give you an experience which would really make you smile for all three of your requirements.

If you consider buying mainstream check with Nick at The Home Cinema Centre for some solid advice.

USC SUBS I have never heard (not by choice) so I cannot comment on that option, however Dan for sure knows his stuff and on paper they seem to be very well respected, and starting to get some great user feedback on here, so possibly also worth looking into.

Don't forget the SB13 Ultra, that thing is pretty bad ass.
 
The op wanted gloss black not easy to do on a DIY sub.
The amount you have spent on your speakers I think a KK DXD 12012 would fit the bill nicely but would take you over your budget.
 
The op wanted gloss black not easy to do on a DIY sub.
The amount you have spent on your speakers I think a KK DXD 12012 would fit the bill nicely but would take you over your budget.
It's is for a body shop who know what there doing. The KK are supposed to be ace but you would need a quad stack to match the output of the diy sub's.

You have to look it always diy will save big money, but like some they don't like some fan noise from the amps even after modification, I mean like I'm the classified section Russell former Forum reviewer has just sold his diy sub's which he states nothing beat that he reviewed which included the likes of the sub 1 untilled a quad stack of Kk 12, so that shows where diy can get you, yes it's not everyone's boat but a lot of people don't consider it as they think there's to much involved, but with driver specs and software it's got easier and there's so much help in the diy section.

To the op look in the diy section in the picture thread and look at some of them, look at James Vicky gloss black sub's there mental.

there really are some special diy subs, theres a jl gotham clone being done a t the moment.
 
Thanks all and really appreciate the views here. The KK's sound like a good deal but I want gloss black (whilst I am less fussy the wife wants them to look good).
I have started watching some you tube vid's on building mdf boxes. I like the idea of DIY just need to be confidence I can do it and not waste the money. Any links on where to buy the Fi Q15's in UK?
I will probably still look to buy ready done as I am not sure I have the time or want the pressure to get the build right (plus I want them in the next few weeks).
Sounds like I wont be too far off if I go for a pair of monoliths.
Interesting comment re the EQ on the XXLS400. Wont the Yamaha YPAO do it justice in tuning? Am I better going for an AV with Audysay instead?
The picture of the James Vickey sub above looks awesome!
 
Tim blade ice are a dealer of fi subs.
BladeICE | Sound Beyond Imagination

I have an email address of gordy(a man who has built a lot of boxes for people on here) and he does a very very good job.
like I said pop in the diy section and start a thread there if you do decided to go this way and im sure you will get all the help needed,

the monos are great subs for the money but you would still need 4 monos to get close to the diys, but the diys will offer better sound quality go lower louder and hit harder.

also the mono is a good gonna be bigger the diy will be like an 18" cube, the mono hits about 99db at 20hz and 1 diy will hit 105db(that's 2 monos)

as I said its worth looking at diy, if you get 2 boxes sprayed by a body shop they should do a good deal.

as for eq it will help, yamahas don't have no sub eq(options are amps with sub eq like onkyo xt and xt32, and other amps like anthem) or a anti mode(about £250) or a mini dsp(cheaper but harder to set up)
 
thanks Scott. I am glad I asked about the Yamaha. The other av receiver I was think of is the Onkyo TX-NR3010. So this has helped make up my mind.
 
blade ice are doing 10% off at the moment until the 3rd.
 
Thanks. Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question but if I go DIY and but a FI Q15 driver get a 1" MDF Cube (20" square) is it as simple as cutting a hole and screwing the driver in? Keith suggested 1 x Behringer NU6000 iNuke Amplifier but does this suggest the amp would not be installed inside the box? If however I have 2 x sub cables could I run this to 2 x Behringer NU3000 iNuke 2 Channel Power Amplifier and install these inside the box or as separates? I assume then the driver just connects to the amp and the amp has a phono socket which can be installed on the back of the MDF box to plug in the cable (or do I need another cut out on the box for the amp to protrude out of which will have the cable connection (LFE??).
 
the fi q15 ideally needs to be in my op in a box of no more then say 75l, now if personally if yyou made a 19" cube(square) with a 50mm front baffle all the rest 25mm, and ask gordy to do some bracing as he has for others(he will know what to do) this should give you around 75l intrernall volume,
now onto the front baffle you can leave it plain or recess the driver so its flush mounted(you can even go down firing if that's what you want, it all comes down to what you want.

the cabinet gordy will do as much as you want if you give him the info, I persaonnl got the connection plate I wanted first then told him what size and what cut outs and where and he did it all I did was sand it veneer it and slap the driver and connection plate in job done.

if you get a nu6000 that will power both subs, the amp will sit on your av rack, one guy in the diy section has fitted hi amp in the sub box, it all comes down to what you want.

the amp connects to your av amp via a phono to xlr adaptor, then the behringer uses speakon plugs to the sub(you can select what you want on the back of the sub box be it speakon connector or just normal screw terminal(what I used) bannan plug style.

if you do decided this is the option and start a thread in the diy section we will tell you what you want 100% and theres no need to worry.
 
I would recommend a pair of Bk Monolith + FF (forward facing) and if you can stretch a DSP anti mode which BK also supply. My Meridian has a very good RC system and full sub control but the antimode improved bass performance further.

There are better subs (for more money!!!) and I am a fan of the SVS but for your budget I think the Monolith + offer you a great solution. £1270 for a pair in gloss black and £235 for the DSP antimode.

I am sure the DIY route is another decent option that could offer better bang for your buck but I am sure the risks are also greater.

Good Luck
 
I would recommend a pair of Bk Monolith + FF (forward facing) and if you can stretch a DSP anti mode which BK also supply. My Meridian has a very good RC system and full sub control but the antimode improved bass performance further.

There are better subs (for more money!!!) and I am a fan of the SVS but for your budget I think the Monolith + offer you a great solution. £1270 for a pair in gloss black and £235 for the DSP antimode.

I am sure the DIY route is another decent option that could offer better bang for your buck but I am sure the risks are also greater.

Good Luck
risk in what.
 
I think he means the risk in doing a self build and getting it wrong Scott! but to be fair now that Gordy is taking a lot of the headache out of it and building the enclosures for people its very much plain sailing.
images
 
All. I opted for 2x Monolith plus FF subs. They look great but I need some advice on settings.
I am struggling with YPAO (on the Yamaha a3030) and sub woofer optimisation and ask for some help.
The YPAO has measured well and set some volume adjustments. The setting pattern is large for all speakers. it has set my subs at -6.0db and the sides and surrounds at +6db and +8db respectively. YPAO is flat and my subs were set at 90 phase (in the middle of the dial from 0 to 180), LFE set, and the dials for the High and Low level phase in the middle (are these relevant when connecting via LFE/YPAO?). However I need advice what I should set the sub phase to when running YPAO and what dial setting for High and Low phase. Also if I want more bass should I change the YPAO setting to 0db adjustment for the subwoofers. Please can anyone advise?
YPAO did a great job first time round and Avatar was amazing. I since run YPAO again (for some reason or another) and watched XMEN but it wasn't as good on the bass this time. Maybe its the film but not sure I have the settings right.

Any advice?
Tim
PS - Self build next time (or when I have some time)!!!
 
Hi Tim, the speakers should all be set to small. Set the frequency dials on the mono to max or bypass. Set phase to 0. Have you got an spl meter also where are they placed the mono, if it's set the sub trim to -6 then you can lower the gains on the monos.
 
Speakers always are set to small if you have a sub for starters otherwise most bass is passed through to your speakers.
 
Thanks. I think I follow some of this. I can set the phase to zero and change the speakers to small. I can max out the dial on the high and low level gain. I don't have an spl meter and they are placed at the front along side the front speakers. I can set the frequency to LFE.
Should I then run YPAO again and the see what the sub trim results are and adjust the gains to my own preference??
 
Yes run it but I would get an Spl never if you can this can help level match the sub's and check to see if the sub's are in phase or polarity as some call it.
 
thanks. I changed the settings and maxed the gains. YPAO report issues with -10db adjustment on the subs. So I moved the gains back to mid setting and run it again. I then manually changed the setting pattern to small (they defaulted to 80hz) but the consequence of this is that all the YPAO measurements disappear so I needed to write them down or get the tape measure out. I did the latter. It also changed the YPAO setting to 'through' instead of 'flat' which I need to read up on. Anyway I will give it a blast tomorrow when I can be noisy again. Not sure what I would do with an SPL meter and wonder if I should pay a local dealer to do some optimisation/tuning.
Thanks again.
 

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