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Confused about NTSC/PAL setup with AVIA

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Gary Palmer, Jul 17, 2003.

  1. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Hi All,

    I'm confused (easily done).

    I have a Screenplay 7200 DLP.

    Last night I used AVIA to setup the PJ with a neutral density filter as described in the WSR review. WOW. What a picture.

    For once I was not flicking between DVDs. I watched R1 NTSC Fifth Element and Moulin Rouge back to back... wonderful blacks, well saturated colours, great detail - almost CRT quality !! VERY HAPPY :)

    Then I put a R2 PAL disc in.

    What the hell happened ???? Crappy picture. Washed out, very low contrast, grey blacks, very poor colour....

    Any ideas ?

    The DVD player is Pioneer 656 via component.

    I could create a new user setting for PAL disks but then I need a PAL AVIA !!!!!

    Help much appreciated

    Gary
     
  2. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
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    Gary,

    I understand that AVIA relates to NTSC set up only. Hence the 'poor' PAL picture.

    There is a PAL disk due out, jump to the DVD disk thread and search it out.

    I was due to buy an AVIA disk from Piero's power-buy but felt that it would be a waste of my cash as I own about three region 1 disks.

    Cap.
     
  3. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Hi Captain

    Thanks for the quick reply.

    I could understand the colour settings being wrong for PAL after NTSC setup (there's no TINT in PAL) but I expected the contrast and brightness settings to be the same and they are definitely not......

    :confused:
     
  4. bxd

    bxd
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    Hi,

    As an alternative to Avia you can use the THX Optimode settings to set up for pal.

    I'd be tempted to do a set up with Avia first and to store the settings. Then use the THX optimode (it's available on T2 and Monsters Inc) to reset the brightness and contrast values. Colour in pal isn't usually a problem, but you might want to tweek it a bit for personal taste or to adjust for some shift in your display device.

    There is a new Pal version of Video Essentials due out in a couple of weeks.

    Brian
     
  5. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Hi BXD,

    Thanks for the suggestion. That's how I did it before I got AVIA and to be honest AVIA produced a much better picture.

    Maybe for now I'll do as you suggest.

    Still confused though. Something to do with IRE maybe ?

    Gary
     
  6. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    NTSC & PAL discs will need different picture control setting to give their best images, this is partly to do with black levels - NTSC DVDs should be mastered with their darkest black level set to 7.5 IRE.

    AVIA has test patterns for setting the Black Level (Brightness control) with either 7.5 IRE or 0 IRE, but of course this only applies to NTSC discs.

    THX Optimode is a bit hit and miss I find. I prefer to use the lessons learned from AVIA and use them to set Contrast and Brightness by eye on PAL discs.
     
  7. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Thanks Chris.

    Really appreciate the reply - I thought I was being stupid.

    Last night I used the THX Optimode and tweaked it more carefully for PAL. I was amazed at the settings I ended up with using the blue filter from AVIA - totally different to NTSC.

    Happy now. Picture looks great on PAL and NTSC.

    If anyone uses a DLP I can't recommend enough a nuetral density filter to improve black level - much cheaper than a Firehawk screen.... :D

    I guess I will be buying VE (again...) when the PAL version comes out.

    Cheers
    Gary
     
  8. mjones0

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    Gary, I was reading your post and noticed the bit about the “neutral density filter as described in the WSR review.” I’d be interested in having a read before I try doing my AVIA setup. I thought WSR might be Wide Screen Review but I can’t find a review of AVIA on their site. Is this review that talks about the neutral density filter available online?

    Thanks for your help.
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  10. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    My understanding on PAL/NTSC differences is contrary to Chris''s.

    Region 1 525/60 and region2 625/50 are natively component. Component sets up for black at 0IRE in both cases. If the player is outputting NTSC the 7.5IRE setup is applied by the player rather than being indicative of a 7.5IRE set-up on the disc. (although not in every case : there are players that do not apply the 7.5IRE even when ooutputting NTSC : my own elderly panny A350 is hacked to allow user setup of the black level independant from format for example).

    Component , RGB and PAL all setup for 0IRE, NTSC sets up for 7.5IRE ( except in Japan where its 0IRE).

    Upshot is you should get valid aims for 525/60 or 625/50 material from Avia with regard to black level white level and colour ( phosphor differences and chromaticity footprints rarely being considered issues for home cinema equipment). As long as you use RGB, component or even PAL60.

    Certainly I've always gotten reliable results regardless of picture format by using Avia or VE for calibration.
    I'm of the opinion its how the display stores settings for different formats rather than the aims being noncompatible between 525/60 and 625/50.

    With regard to NTSC calibration I simply don't bother. If I need a composite/svideo type connection I'll use PAL60. That way everythings at 0IRE for black and you benefit from the PAL colour signal (although you may get certain problems with PAL60 composite connections on certain kit because of the way comb filters work)
     
  11. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Hi MJones0,

    The magazine was indeed Widescreen Review. The reviewer suggested using a nuetral density filter to push the black level down whilst using the high brightness level of DLP to maintain a "correct" white level. He said that this is the same as using a Firehawk screen but with 2 benefits - MUCH cheaper and it can be removed so that the PJ can be used in non-blacked-out rooms during the day.

    I have to say that this was bang-on. The opening scenes of Toy Story 2 are inky black with nice saturated colours from the stars without lacking brightness. It also reduces noise as he predicted which was irritating me without the filter.

    This does need a really blacked out room.

    Basically WSR got the most out of the 7200 IMHO and they are my hereos.... for now ;-)

    Cheers !

    Gary
     

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