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Confused about bass!!

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Sigismund, Dec 30, 2003.

  1. Sigismund

    Sigismund
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    Hi all :)

    I'm ever so slightly confused! Now, I've never experienced the "charms" of monster subwoofers, but how do they differ from say a run-of-the-mill three or four hundred pounds job?

    Your ever-interested,

    Sigs :)
     
  2. Drunken Master

    Drunken Master
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    I'm no expert here but when I upgraded my sub to a £750 M&K the bass sounds a lot tighter and more control than with my AE sub I had before.
     
  3. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Higher peak SPLs across a more even and extended frequency response, lower THD levels, greater accuracy & 'speed' of bass.

    I think that about covers it :D.
     
  4. Sigismund

    Sigismund
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    So it's not that more expensive subs just go lower!

    I guess what you're saying is that, as with most things, the higher up the ladder one goes the more refined things become?

    OK, but how does this translate into a listening experience?

    Sigs
     
  5. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    Moved to speakers and subwoofers
     
  6. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Of course, 'higher up the ladder' isn't always necessary, there are exceptions to the rule. Take the Servo-15, which sold for £399 at Richers for a time, and outperformed many a £1000+ subwoofer. But generally, the more you spend the more "refined" things become :D.

    In listening experiences, it very much depends on the subwoofer. Subs like the Servo simply transform your entire movie viewing experience, and make the difference between 'Sound with direction' and an Aural experience that just grabs you by the throat & doesn't let go until the credits roll. For movies this is fantastic, and can elevate your home listening experience to a truly cinematic and involving level.

    But, with music, things are quite different. You don't really want a sub like the servo which pumps out sound with such ferocity on a delicate orchestral piece of music.

    Such Subs have a very prominent 'All or Nothing' characteristic. whereby they're either dominating your listening experience with their sheen visceral power, or they're not contributing at all - there's very little inbetween. This is where the more 'Refined' subwoofers take over, the Rels of this world.

    Budget subwoofers, by comparison, are aimed at different sectors of the market. Most are designed to give 'more' lower frequencies, as opposed to improving the quality of those already there. And thus tend to go modestly low in extension very loudly at every available opportunity.

    And, if they're not designed to do this, they're designed to give some of the benefits of higher end subwoofers for smaller, less ambitious systems (subs like the MJ Reference 100 etc). Some are very good at doing this, but still don't compare to more costly, ambitious designs aurally.

    Of course, as usual, the best advice I can give is to compare a monster with a budget maestro ;).

    Dimmy :)
     
  7. Ian J

    Ian J
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    In theory the more expensive subs will go lower and with far less distortion. The difference should be highly audible as a significant part of the output from a budget sub is audible distortion
     
  8. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    Cabinet Ressonance, Port Noise, the list goes on :D
     
  9. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
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    Hi Dimmy
    I would'nt have known what port noise was if i had'nt owned the mission m5as for a short while it was one of the reasons i returned it it chuffed like a good'n.
    Cheers Gonzo.
     
  10. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    And now you have an SVS, it was all for the greater good :D.
     
  11. Londondecca

    Londondecca
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    Generally speaking, with music, you should not be able to hear the sub woofer any more than you can hear the tweeter. It should be seamless. AV is a different game altogether.
     
  12. GaryG

    GaryG
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    Get one of your mates to surprise you by whacking you with a canoe paddle!:devil:
     
  13. Sigismund

    Sigismund
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    :D If only I had some mates :(

    The thing that gets me, just a tad mind you, is that even with the monster of monsters (if there is such a sub), surely all speakers in one's a/v setup are still "equalised" by using the amp's test tone facility. So, I understand the point made by Ian J (a first for me :kisses: ), but I wonder, from reading posts regarding subs in general, whether people have the output from their sub set way too high?

    Sigs
     
  14. Stellavision

    Stellavision
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    I think the type of finish, like wood veneer, etc... and the old waf friendly physical design of the thing could be added on that list.:D
     
  15. Matt F

    Matt F
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    Oh no - here we go again :suicide:

    As the infamous avforums Servo 15 owners (Nic Rhodes and Steve Ex) will tell you (and as I recently found out) if a Servo 15 doesn't sound spot on with music then, unless it's faulty, the truth of the matter is likely to be that you haven't positioned/set it up properly. It took me ages to get mine right and I couldn't have done so without bringing the X30 control box (with it's phase adjustment) into play.

    It's probably also worth noting that Nic owns both Servo's and an REL Stentor and has said on several occasions how even a single Servo betters his Stentor for movies and music.

    The bottom line is that subs with low distortion (Servo 15, Velo HGS's, SVS's) will play music accurately BUT only if they are set up properly.

    Matt.
     
  16. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Good post Matt. Servo subs aren't "all or nothing" at all, unless they're setup incorrectly OR if the room can't be tamed.
     
  17. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    I'll continue to disagree :D.

    I'll re-iterate now, I loved the servo to bits from the very first time I heard it at Matt's in August, it was fantastic.

    A huge stiffly suspended 15" front firing cone doesn't - however - spell 'Musicality'. Perhaps in the VERY largest of rooms you might get away with it, but I think most of the time, in most rooms and scenarios, the RELs will better it for musicality.

    :lesson: and my mind won't be warped further than that so there's no need to try :D.
     

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