Confessions of a know nothing (HS900 probs)

numptydumpty

Active Member
Hi lovely people,

I am back from my holidays, though £128 lighter, as I discovered that there deffo was NOT enough space left on the internal HDD on my camcorder, so I bought a 64GB SanDisc Extreme memory card (class 10 45MB/s SDXC I) from the Dixons outlet in Heathrow, and recorded my holiday onto that. I mention this in case you decide this may/may not have influenced my results (my son in laws attempts to be honest) at minimal editing and rendering to external HD of my holiday footage.

All we did was download the footage through my laptop to my external HD, then put it through Power Director editing software. Any obvious whoopsies were taken out on the timeline, date and title were inserted at the start, and ending title to the finish...nothing else. This was an old-ish version of the P.D software which did not have the facility to render in the correct 1920x1080/50p format, which was what it was recorded in on my Pany HDC-HS900 camcorder, so when the result was rendered, there was a huge loss in picture quality.

Second attempt was on a newer version of PowerDirector (version 11 Ultra). This had the correct format, plus a 'format recorded in' sort of recognition system, which we used, which promised to automatically render the footage in the correct format that the camcorder recorded it in. The result was a huge improvement in picture quality....but with a horrible juddering effect to every single area of the video where I panned round as I recorded on my camcorder. Its bad enough to make you feel a bit strange when you watch it on my 47" Pany HD TV. I remember the same thing happening a couple of years back when I tried recording from a Sony HD camcorder onto the built-in HDD on a Sony HDD/BD disc recorder. I was eventually informed by Sony that this was because the recorder did not have the correct 'codec' to handle my footage, so we got a full refund. Now I have the same thing again :mad:

Does anyone know whether the memory card may be causing this (I doubt it, because the £128 was supposed to give me a card with full HD 1080p and so on recording handling) or whether the PowerDirector editing software 'Auto recognition' system has incorrectly analysed the format my camcorder recorded in....or may it be something else altogether?

I know the simple answer is to do it again, but this time manually enter the correct format rather than rely on 'Auto recognition' (despite the software saying that route was the best option). However, this would take my son in law several hours to achieve (embarrassing for me)...alternatively, trying to use my embryonic skills, it would take me all day...with no gurantee it would be done properly then :blush:. So...I just wondered if anyone was familiar with this sort of 'juddery panning' problem caused by editing issues? I know it is an editing issue, because it is NOT there when the footage is played direct onto the TV via the camcorder...and it was NOT there on the poor picture quality version rendered after using the older version of the same software.

I do come up with some crackers don't I ? :p Sorry guys, but I would love an answer on this one, if any of you would be kind enough to wade through my marathon explanation there :rolleyes:


Cheers, Dave.
 

TheShadowman

Active Member
Hi Numpty

Try reloading the original .pds file to the timeline and copy a representative juddery chunk to a new file and then render the new file as 1080i. Is your oversized Panny able handle 1080p? See if the judderyness goes away when processed as 1080i.
Edit:
If you look at these juddery bits on the camera screen is it still there, or is it only when editing?Ignore: I just re-read your post

One other question: Was PowerDirector Set to PAL
 
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numptydumpty

Active Member
Hi Shadowman,

Thanks for your reply. My TV is 3D capable, and is definitely capable of displaying 1080p. As I say, the judder is NOT there if you plug the camcorder into the TV through HDMI and play direct from that, which proves the 1080p bit (I know it is 1080p anyway) It only appeared once that footage was given a basic edit, then rendered using P.D. software.

It is not there if you play the footage back on the camcorder, using it's own lcd display, and it is not there if you play it back on the Pany TV by plugging the camcorder directly into that....it ONLY appears once you edit through the new version of PowerDirector and render using that...so it's not that the TV is only 1080i capable.

Cheers, Dave.
 

12harry

Distinguished Member
numptydumpty, are you sure the Edited/Rendered footage is at fault? What I wonder is if the "Panning" issue isn't there on the original?
A method of checking this might be on a bright day, take yr camcorder to an open space, pref one with some trees at differing distances, and (on a Tripod) perform a very slow pan . . . maybe half the speed of yr slowest-yet.

Then Put this into an Editor, selacting "Match Original Media" (or whatever), so this should be .m2ts delivered to your HDD. This should be played using a Media-Player on yr TV. It should not judder and the tree trunks should remain straight.

Modern camcorders use odd techniques to put the data onto the card, so it has the downside that fast-moving images can become "broken" or smeared - it depends on many factor, but speed of panning is the primary variable, which you have coontrol over. If the pan is "too slow" then most Editors will allow yu to speed-up sections, so the pan is rendered faster, hopefully this will be as you want . . . . and may serve to show you where the many holiday vids are in error.

However, if it doesn't; you may have to look elsewhere for a solution. The trouble is that doing things this way is "probably" the easiest (ie least-risk) - but there are other techniques, but using the Editor is "probably" the simplist, although I would rec. "Sony Movie Studio v12", even though the original is from a Panasonic.

. . . Hope that helps . . .
 

numptydumpty

Active Member
Hi 12Harry,

I have used this camcorder to record holidays for roughly 2 years, filling the internal 220GB HDD in the process ('er indoors likes her holidays :D) For my latest holiday, I did the recording onto the memory card I purchased just for that (see previous posts for that spec)

Up until now, I have not attempted (because I didn't know how) to download/edit/render the contents of the on-board HDD, nor obviously from the newly purchased card. Instead, I have watched the recorded footage all this time by plugging the camcorder directly into the HD TV using a HDMI lead.

Being an amateur, I probably do too much panning....but every minute of the recorded footage from this cam has played back perfectly when viewed in that manner, including the newest footage on the new memory card. it also plays back perfectly if viewed using the cam's own LCD display.

When this latest footage (that on the new memory card) was edited and rendered using an older version of PowerDirector, the picture quality was not that good...it was not sharp, but it was watchable. The reason for this was that that version of the software did not have the correct format (1920x1080/50p) that the camcorder records in....so we rendered it in the closest format that this older software had. The thing is, despite the poor picture quality this method produced, it did NOT have the juddery motion on the footage of my pans....it was perfect in that respect.

The juddering motion seen on the pans was ONLY seen seen when viewing the rendered recording of my latest holiday made using the LATEST version (version11 Ultra) of the PD software.

So...how could it be that all those methods of viewing the dozens of hours of footage shows up NO evidence of juddering on pans in two years...but as soon as I use the latest version of Power director on the latest footage, the juddering appears? I am not saying you are wrong....I can't because I know nothing about all this, and you do. I just need to understand the logic. HOW could it be that I can view all this footage in several ways (as described) with no probs....if that juddering is in fact present on the original footage? Why don't I see it when viewed in those ways? How could it be that it is only visible after editing and rendering....if that process is not the cause of the problem?

I am truly lost, lol.

Cheers, Dave.
 
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12harry

Distinguished Member
Sadly it points to the Editing software. Have you searched for other users who may have similar experiences...and fixes?

Others have suggested settings that should produce good files.

But it could be the delivery from the Rendered files...see below:-

Isn't it odd that it's only panning that does it? The way HD works is probably responsible where every-so-often a frame holds the full picture then subsequent frame record changes to reduce the data rate. During fast-pans the system needs more full-frames and sometimes there isn't enough room for it.

What's odd is that the vids are Ok direct off the camcorder, so I'm suspicious it's the software - hopefully you can find a good setting . . .

TV delivery:
You've not said (have you?) how the Rendered vid gets to the TV.
With the camcorder you have a fast (mini HDMI?) cable to push the data through.
+PC's are not good playback machines . . . . better to burn a BD disc (or DVD, you'll not notice the lower res. too much and the discs are 20p).... since disc players are designed for that purpose. Better to remove the PC from the loop, after the Editing/Rendering bit IMHO.

If the Rendered Vid is on the PC HDD (or worse a USB one) then there can be issues with sustained data-rates. Hence it is only fair to burn to disc...IMHO.

Good luck.
 

numptydumpty

Active Member
Hi 12Harry,

Thanks for that, I will definitely try re-rendering it using manual added settings for the type of format it renders in. I had suspicions early on that the recommended 'auto format detector' built into the software may somehow have been at fault, so setting the 1920x1080/50p by hand may put it right. The reason I asked the question on here, before trying that, was in the hope that this was a well known phenomena, with an easy fix....rather than me staggering about blindly trying things which, in my ignorance, may make things worse. The thing about other suggested formats to try doing this rendering in is this...what is the point of forking out relative mega bucks (£1000) to buy a camcorder which records in glorious full HD, in the format above....if you are going to then degrade the viewable finished product by recording the rendered footage in a lesser quality format? Surely to god it must be possible to do it, otherwise why do Panasonic and others make camcorders that record in that format?

Anyhow Harry, the rendered video has been stored on the HDD of an 'Iomega 1TB Screenplay MX HD Media Player' (all the specs for that are on the original posts on page one of this thread) Basically, it says on the box that it is capable of giving "Crystal clear quality with full 1080p HD video playback". The connection from that to the 1080p HD TV is through HDMI.

Talking of which, I have questioned people for a long time about the suitability of various connection/cable types, and again and again come up against the brick wall of conflicting opinions, depending upon which expert you ask :D The question is....if a quality connection such as HDMI is required to feed the rendered images from your storage device to your TV to obtain true top quality full HD display....then WHY is it OK that the only provided connection between the editing PC to the external HDD is INVARIABLY USB ???? I searched high and low, but could find not one single external HDD storage device with any other type of input, despite many having the HDMI output :eek: The old saying 'Crap in = crap out' springs to mind here :laugh: Why is the chain of connections degraded by using USB as a weak link in that chain :confused:

I did buy a blu ray recorder some time back that I wanted to use, but the discs cost silly money....and didn't go down in price the way I was assured they would when I bought it, so I sold it again before it was worthless. I have literally hundreds of hours of footage, and the cost of the Blu ray discs for that lot would have been incredible. I looked at the DVD option, but it seems that in full HD, in the format my footage is in....I would get about 15 minutes of footage per disc. As some of my footage of individual holidays is 5 hours long...that would mean 20 disc changes for one viewing, so another unworkable option.

Oh dear....I have been battling for years and years to try to understand all this bewildering stuff. I have spent fortunes on equipment over those years, recording great footage on a variety of HD camcorders....but with little more than mediocre results when trying to effectively store my holiday footage in such a way that my wife can easily play it back. Doing that gives her immense pleasure, but she can't cope with complicated menus and so on...it NEEDS to be 'plug and play' for her. Sadly I may have to admit failure soon...if I don't understand HOW and WHY the stuff works....then for me, it probably never will. Such is life.



Cheers, Dave.
 
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chrishull3

Well-known Member
Hi 12Harry,

Thanks for that, I will definitely try re-rendering it using manual added settings for the type of format it renders in. I had suspicions early on that the recommended 'auto format detector' built into the software may somehow have been at fault, so setting the 1920x1080/50p by hand may put it right. The reason I asked the question on here, before trying that, was in the hope that this was a well known phenomena, with an easy fix....rather than me staggering about blindly trying things which, in my ignorance, may make things worse. The thing about other suggested formats to try doing this rendering in is this...what is the point of forking out relative mega bucks (£1000) to buy a camcorder which records in glorious full HD, in the format above....if you are going to then degrade the viewable finished product by recording the rendered footage in a lesser quality format? Surely to god it must be possible to do it, otherwise why do Panasonic and others make camcorders that record in that format?

Anyhow Harry, the rendered video has been stored on the HDD of an 'Iomega 1TB Screenplay MX HD Media Player' (all the specs for that are on the original posts on page one of this thread) Basically, it says on the box that it is capable of giving "Crystal clear quality with full 1080p HD video playback". The connection from that to the 1080p HD TV is through HDMI.

Talking of which, I have questioned people for a long time about the suitability of various connection/cable types, and again and again come up against the brick wall of conflicting opinions, depending upon which expert you ask :D The question is....if a quality connection such as HDMI is required to feed the rendered images from your storage device to your TV to obtain true top quality full HD display....then WHY is it OK that the only provided connection between the editing PC to the external HDD is INVARIABLY USB ???? I searched high and low, but could find not one single external HDD storage device with any other type of input, despite many having the HDMI output :eek: The old saying 'Crap in = crap out' springs to mind here :laugh: Why is the chain of connections degraded by using USB as a weak link in that chain :confused:

I did buy a blu ray recorder some time back that I wanted to use, but the discs cost silly money....and didn't go down in price the way I was assured they would when I bought it, so I sold it again before it was worthless. I have literally hundreds of hours of footage, and the cost of the Blu ray discs for that lot would have been incredible. I looked at the DVD option, but it seems that in full HD, in the format my footage is in....I would get about 15 minutes of footage per disc. As some of my footage of individual holidays is 5 hours long...that would mean 20 disc changes for one viewing, so another unworkable option.

Oh dear....I have been battling for years and years to try to understand all this bewildering stuff. I have spent fortunes on equipment over those years, recording great footage on a variety of HD camcorders....but with little more than mediocre results when trying to effectively store my holiday footage in such a way that my wife can easily play it back. Doing that gives her immense pleasure, but she can't cope with complicated menus and so on...it NEEDS to be 'plug and play' for her. Sadly I may have to admit failure soon...if I don't understand HOW and WHY the stuff works....then for me, it probably never will. Such is life.



Cheers, Dave.

Hi there http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...pos=1t2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9191100748540 i dont think that from 1.75 is a lot for 2hrs of recordable Blu Ray,anyway good luck with your editing,you should not get any quality loss using even the most basic software,i have found testing HDMI cables watching top quality cinema films there no difference using cheap hdmi cables to very expensive ones.
 

numptydumpty

Active Member
Hi there Amazon.co.uk: blue ray recordable discs i dont think that from 1.75 is a lot for 2hrs of recordable Blu Ray,anyway good luck with your editing,you should not get any quality loss using even the most basic software,i have found testing HDMI cables watching top quality cinema films there no difference using cheap hdmi cables to very expensive ones.

Hi Chris'

Thanks for that...but while you were on Amazon, you may have found this fun reading....

Amazon.co.uk: Dr C's review of TDK T78301 BD-R 4x 25GB Blu-ray Disc - 25 ...

While I was looking at Blu-ray as a recording media, I found umpteen reports like that, some from very authoritative experts in the Glossies (What Hi-Fi and so on). It would seem that the world of cheap BD discs is a minefield, with sometimes as many as 80%<90% failures, and even those that work frequently producing incredibly poor picture quality. It turns out that to get ANY sort of consistency and quality....you have to pay big bucks. That does tie in with the other old sayings 'You don't get anything for nothing' and 'You get what you pay for'. If those cheap discs were perfectly OK, capable of doing the job you want....how would they EVER sell the dear ones? Don't tell me 'To mugs like me', because the experience of countless others gives the lie to that theory.

The other problem is the BD burners themselves....the laptop I am typing this with (Sony Vaio VGN-FW11ZU) has a built in BD burner, which I bought several years ago, in my ignorance. I expected (and why not?) that it would be an all in one solution to my problems, that it would work perfectly out of the box....oh how wrong I was :rolleyes: After many days of struggling unsuccessfully, I was told that I wouldn't ever get it to work as it stands, because Sony don't package it with the correct software to do a decent job, so I would STILL have to download umpteen upgrades, AND buy expensive software...to use it at all...and even that seemed slightly dubious. Add to that the fact that I was also told that BD discs, like DVD's....had a very limited working life expectancy....and you may appreciate why I abandoned that particular method :rolleyes:

As I have mentioned before, everything in this business (like the views from others that I have expressed above) seems to me to vary very much on the expert you ask. Some will agree with the experts who gave me the above information...and others will vehemently disagree. Which all boils down to this...how can someone like me, who knows nothing....judge which of my sources is correct...and which are wrong? I am not in a position to judge am I? So where do I go from there? I can tell you where I went....I went from one expert to another, buying expensive gear they swore by....because I am a trusting soul (Naive idiot?) only to discover that in fact it wasn't as good as they said....and on and on ad nauseum. Quite a few years (and an awful lot of money I could ill afford) later, I am no further forward....and being a pensioner now, I can no longer afford to keep buying the latest experts recommendations.

Just to rub salt into the wounds, I have recently been informed that even external HDD's are by no means foolproof, that I should have at least two of them, with the same footage burned onto both....as a safety measure. Does NOTHING really work :laugh::laugh::laugh:

The only saving grace is that at my age, why should I worry TOO much about the longevity of the media :facepalm: :p:p

Like I said, that's life I guess :hiya:

However, I really, really, REALLY would have liked to have made this work, just to give my good lady the one thing she desperately wants :blush:

Cheers, Dave.
 
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chrishull3

Well-known Member
Hi Chris'

Thanks for that...but while you were on Amazon, you may have found this fun reading....

Amazon.co.uk: Dr C's review of TDK T78301 BD-R 4x 25GB Blu-ray Disc - 25 ...

While I was looking at Blu-ray as a recording media, I found umpteen reports like that, some from very authoritative experts in the Glossies (What Hi-Fi and so on). It would seem that the world of cheap BD discs is a minefield, with sometimes as many as 80%<90% failures, and even those that work frequently producing incredibly poor picture quality. It turns out that to get ANY sort of consistency and quality....you have to pay big bucks. That does tie in with the other old sayings 'You don't get anything for nothing' and 'You get what you pay for'. If those cheap discs were perfectly OK, capable of doing the job you want....how would they EVER sell the dear ones? Don't tell me 'To mugs like me', because the experience of countless others gives the lie to that theory.

The other problem is the BD burners themselves....the laptop I am typing this with (Sony Vaio VGN-FW11ZU) has a built in BD burner, which I bought several years ago, in my ignorance. I expected (and why not?) that it would be an all in one solution to my problems, that it would work perfectly out of the box....oh how wrong I was :rolleyes: After many days of struggling unsuccessfully, I was told that I wouldn't ever get it to work as it stands, because Sony don't package it with the correct software to do a decent job, so I would STILL have to download umpteen upgrades, AND buy expensive software...to use it at all...and even that seemed slightly dubious. Add to that the fact that I was also told that BD discs, like DVD's....had a very limited working life expectancy....and you may appreciate why I abandoned that particular method :rolleyes:

As I have mentioned before, everything in this business (like the views from others that I have expressed above) seems to me to vary very much on the expert you ask. Some will agree with the experts who gave me the above information...and others will vehemently disagree. Which all boils down to this...how can someone like me, who knows nothing....judge which of my sources is correct...and which are wrong? I am not in a position to judge am I? So where do I go from there? I can tell you where I went....I went from one expert to another, buying expensive gear they swore by....because I am a trusting soul (Naive idiot?) only to discover that in fact it wasn't as good as they said....and on and on ad nauseum. Quite a few years (and an awful lot of money I could ill afford) later, I am no further forward....and being a pensioner now, I can no longer afford to keep buying the latest experts recommendations.

Just to rub salt into the wounds, I have recently been informed that even external HDD's are by no means foolproof, that I should have at least two of them, with the same footage burned onto both....as a safety measure. Does NOTHING really work :laugh::laugh::laugh:

The only saving grace is that at my age, why should I worry TOO much about the longevity of the media :facepalm: :p:p

Like I said, that's life I guess :hiya:

However, I really, really, REALLY would have liked to have made this work, just to give my good lady the one thing she desperately wants :blush:

Cheers, Dave.

Good make bds like verbatim are cheap now if you shop around,the only failier i have had is when i tried a very cheap make which i cant recall,one of those lost its info after 2 years,i have well over 100 bds going back 8 years,as you say there is no fully safe storage,i lost a hard drives info once luckily it was transferable,tape is the best storage imo but having players is the problem.As i have said there is no point paying for an expensive HDMI cable i have both cheap and expensive and the cheap are just as good,Home burn DVD is the poorest storage far less reliable and very much poorer quality than BD.Good quality AVCHD rendered and captured to HDV amazingly retains vertualy all its quality,One of my cameras has 50P but i am not over impressed asit resolves no more detail,my GH2 and XA10 dont have 50P but still have great colour and resolution.Why in this day and age anyone would buy a dvd player when blu ray players are so inexpensive is strange.
Cheers Chris
 
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12harry

Distinguished Member
\\\reply to #35.
Wow, this is some thread!
Reason for Mfr making HD camcorders is because they can - and a reason for folk to "trade-up". If we still used tape and SD then we could carry on with perfectly good camcorders, buying new only when one is broken, since they can live-again on the s/h market. Mfrs don't want the s/h Mkt to flourish . . . they need sales. Sadly they are driven by "Marketeers" - youngsters who never use the product, so they constantly get features "wrong" - like those multi-function rings that help users make a "fist" of their films. Whereas a proper scale-ring is obvious and easy to understand.. . . and LANC* is another feature that's not supplied . . . unless you go pro. . . . . although the Canon HFG10 claims it has it..... yet few folks (here) own this model, it seems.
[* strictly LANC applies only to Canon and Sony, but Pana has a similar scheme.]
On the reason for downgrading: - because it's good enough. Let's say you buy a flashy motor - you don't drive it at max speed, do you? (not Everyday). Nor do you use all four doors, - but it's there when you do.
Similarly, we can render as HD and then re-render down to DVD - or we burn HD to BD - but whilst I can play these at home, few places I go have BD players that are "reliable" - so it's easier to stick with DVD. (er, and cheaper/disc).
I agree BD discs aren't cheap; but for you, with longer vids, they should be suitable, as you have the gear. . . . can't Mrs handle them?

However, IMHO you need to create a short "test vid" as I described: Post#32to fiind the best settings. In general I'd expect PAL 50p 1920x1080 should be the ticket. . . . but I thnk others here have already covered that, more expertly.

HDMI cables - yep the cheap ones work - but I suspect the HDMI arrangement is not perfect, as there is consioderable "drag" on the connection . . . . for USB drives, I make a bracket with rubber inserts to grip the power and USB cables, providing support at 50mm from the connection . . . this virtually eliminates the strain, IMHO. Well worth bashing some light metal.... although it might look a tad industrial.
However, the more expensive ones may belonger-lived, but I suspect they all come out of the same production-line. The spectre of profiteering hangs over...?

Your HDMI recorder arrangemnt - I've not seen one like that, but it reads like it's just the ticket . . . .and the data from the Rendering computer can be entered slowly (via USB, or whatever), since it is packing the files end-to-end. Only when you "play" are these files pushed out at HDMI-speeds . . . . does that make sense?

Don't give up - it's mor than likely a "settings" issue - sadly most folks here use Sony Vegas (Movie Studio) which has some cache even in FilmMaking Clubs, although if you have access to the funds then FCpro appear to be the professional choice. However, for budget-concious folks Movie Studio is very acceptable, having the ability to make something quickly - or by digging deeper considerable scope for fixing things that (er, maybe should have been done earlier).


Oh yes, and for reliability you do need two copies on HDD's (preferably buy HDDs in pairs, so they share the same platters+pcb, then if one croaks . . . . ). However, the discs need to be stored with care and pref. separately to minimise a common-failure mechanism. Also, ideally your Rendering/Editing should be done on aPC that isn't in reguular contact with the Internet . . so you precious files are safe from viruses . . . and this is a good reason for saving Vids on DVD/BD since they can't* be changed when finalised (* not easily!). Fortunately HDDs are quite cheap now, with 3Tb about £100 (bare).... that's a lot of Vid.

Good luck, keep on winning.
 
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TheShadowman

Active Member
Numpty. See post 37.

You need to check these settings. AND please make sure that PowerDirector is set to PAL in preferences "general". If you are using it for the first time it could be set for NTSC.
 
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Bob++

Active Member
My only editing experience has been with MAGIX Movie Edit Pro MX Plus Download Version. I edit my footage (from an SD700 with the same software as yours) and export the rendered result to an SD card. If I plug this card into my TV via a USB adaptor then I do not get the 'juddery panning' problem that you see. My cam displays "panning too fast" and stops recording if I pan too fast - does yours?

Personally I think you are running before you have got the hang of toddling. First thing is to work on fairly short clips of less than ten minutes. This will not take long to process and you can see the result straight away. Use the 'problem' parts of your video and then you will see what works. Don't edit the clip (apart from cutting it from the main footage) in any way - just cut it out and render it. Keep it in the editor and try exporting in different formats so that you can see the difference.

Once you get that sorted, then you can start editing properly and adding titles etc.
 
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numptydumpty

Active Member
Thanks again lads, lots more thoughtful (and thought provoking) advice there. It worried me after I had entered my last post that you might have thought I was having a 'pop' at you lads when I was criticising the 'experts' who have advised me poorly along the way, but thankfully you realised that was not my intention at all.

I will do as you suggest and just take a clip with panning content and manually enter the 1920 x 1080/50p format for rendering, and check the results of that. As suggested, I can try other formats if that fails as well. However, you would think that rendering in the same format it was recorded in originally must work. If it does, my suspicion that the auto format detector in the software was the problem may be right....if it doesn't, I shall be gob smacked and wanting to know why not, even if something else does work! I also need to re-read and think about all your other comments/advice, because my old brain needs time to assimilate it and understand what you are saying/meaning...as best I can :D

The camcorder I used before this Pany was a little Sony HDR-HC3, a 1080i cam, which I still have and use with a cheap Sony waterproof case when snorkeling. That uses the tiny HD I hour tapes, and produces lovely footage in the right conditions. With that, I buy boxes of tapes and use a new tape every time...which of course means I still have (and will always keep) every tape I have put through it (probably 60 or so). Previous to that I had Hi8 and standard 8 cams, with the bigger tapes, one of which I still have, plus all the tapes from them (gawd knows how many :rolleyes:). My original cam was a Sony VHS....which I don't have (nor the tapes, thankfully :laugh:) Sadly for me, I need to put all those tapes on my HDD/s as well, so I think my hair may be a lovely shade of white by the time the worry of all this has taken it's toll :D

Bob, I have never tried a fast pan, so don't know if it would pop up that error message...I must give it a whizz !

Thanks again lads, top people. I will let you know how things turn out.

Cheers, Dave.
 
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numptydumpty

Active Member
I better get my machine checked out because the posts cant be showing up

Not so Shadowman, you were included in the 'thanks' and the 'needing to re-read and understand bit' :D I certainly will be checking those settings and so on that you mention, but you must understand that at present I am working with a tutorial which consists of my video recording of my son in law doing the editing/rendering that has been done so far....which I have rendered and transferred to my wife's laptop so that I can watch it as I try all the bits mentioned :rolleyes: Fast I aint :D

I will get there, and I will investigate the things you say, and I do thank you for what may turn out to be key info :smashin:

Cheers, Dave.
 

numptydumpty

Active Member
Have a look at this: It may tell you something. I downloaded the little clip and it ran fine on my machine, but on his machine it was juddery. RE. Flickering& Juddery

Hmmm....don't understand a lot of that, so will have to ask the S in L tomorrow. However, the one about the files needing to be on the C-drive on my laptop while editing rings alarms....I am fairly sure we were working from the original download on the external HDD (once we had discovered that it was all in separate files when played back) when we were editing. Having said that, it wasn't that all movement was juddery, like that in your chaps case...everything on my vid plays beautifully...except the pans.

If it turns out that my footage MUST be on my laptop for best results, and that IS the problem, then that may be when my Vaio runs into trouble. However, we are not really editing as such....on the footage in question, two very short but obvious black files were removed when on the time line, then titles at start and finish were added...nothing else was touched, no fades or whatever added...everything else was left and rendered as was.

We shall see, once I have checked everything as suggested and tried a short clip of panning.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Last edited:

TheShadowman

Active Member
Are you shooting the clips in manual or auto on the camera? The reason I ask is, if I am using manual settings and my shutter speed is a bit slow, the pans can be slightly erratic due, I think, to the movement taking place.

Others may be able to say if this should be so, or wether it is a figment of my imagination
 

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