Dismiss Notice
Attention AVForums app / Tapatalk users
Sadly GDPR means that, from 25th, we can no longer offer access to AVForums via the branded app or Tapatalk.
Click here for more information.

Compressed movies and larger plasmas

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by dgsgc, May 25, 2005.

  1. dgsgc

    dgsgc
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    35
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hi all

    I have been looking at the current crop of 42" plasmas and have all but decided it will be the PD7200 or the PV500. The only part still nagging me is how well a 42" display will handle compressed dvd-r's and compressed files stored on a HTPC. I have a vast collection of backed up movies on both dvd-r and computer and would hate to loose all of these and have to re-do them all. I have taken one of my compressed discs into a local comet and asked for a demo, it looked so bad i am now worried that 42" may be too big for my library of films. The only saving grace i can see is that an uncompressed disc also looked shocking, so i am hoping it was the set up more than the disc.

    Does anyone else use compressed backups on there 42" sized screen, and if so how does it look.

    I am upgrading from a 28" crt and they look flawless on this, i think i am just expecting too much from compressed sources (done via dvdshrink).

    It maybe that 37" is more the size i can go for due to my compressed library?
    All help and advice much appreciated.
     
  2. Dan L

    Dan L
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,204
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Wotton-under-Edge
    Ratings:
    +110
    DiVX compressed stuff looks great on mine - you do see artifacts and a little pixellation but it's not much to worry about imo.

    I can take some snaps for you if you like so you can maybe judge for yourself.
     
  3. shaithis

    shaithis
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,668
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    The Last Aerie
    Ratings:
    +31
    Sounds like the demo you had was poor.

    Although I hate using copies, I sometimes do use them on my system......a recent example was someone who brought a copy of "The Last Samurai" around to my house recently to watch......they told me they did the copy with DVDShrink (as I had advised them) but instead of doing EXACTLY what I told them to do (i.e. remaster and only take feature + the best soundtrack) they did a complete re-compress of the entire disc, taking the trailers, menus, extra etc.....I didn't realise until I popped it in and the menu came up..

    I immediatly thought "this is going to look terrible" but was shocked to find you had to look VERY close to spot the differences.

    If you had a demo, do you know what equipment and cabling was used? The demos I saw in Richer Sounds were enough to almost put me off ever buying a plasma...
     
  4. dgsgc

    dgsgc
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    35
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    The demo was done on a pe50 and a slimline phillips dvd player (not sure on model) using a scart, which im not even sure was set up for RGB.

    If the copy of Last Samurai was fine then i think i have nothing to worry about. I can imagine that being a good % compression for the full disc. I tend to rip just the movie and soundtrack and keep it as high as possible.

    Again thanks for all your input. :thumbsup:
     
  5. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    9,748
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +270
    The bigger the screen, the more it shows up imperfections.
     
  6. Member 55145

    Member 55145
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    12,079
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,478
    hmmm sounds like your trying to legitimise piracy to me, I see no need for backups, and techinically your breaking the law with those backups anyway, A backup has to be stored in the same format it was bought.

    now if you were talking about home made movies id be more sympathetic and encourage people to help, but to me i think you just pirate all your films, otherwise quit complaining and watch the REAL dvd you own of the film as it will obviously be better

    copying all your dvd library to PC is a different matter tho as its ease of use to stream from a pc, but your burning to DVD-R and I can only think of one reason for doing it
     
  7. greyhorse

    greyhorse
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2005
    Messages:
    447
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +2
    if you want to **** around with copies of dvds, after you have spent thousands on kit to get the best quality you may well just go and buy the cheapest plasma you can lay your hands on.

    :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:
     
  8. Costas

    Costas
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,663
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Swindon, UK
    Ratings:
    +120
    All good plasmas will highlight the weaknesses of any video source (artifacts, pixelation, noise...) and equally they would look brilliant with top quality video sources. It is simple ..they display what you feed them.... and show it clearly to you! Fully agree with greyhorse.
     
  9. dgsgc

    dgsgc
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    35
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    At the moment back ups are stored on dvd-r's to save space as i keep them in cd wallets, and the originals are stored in the loft. My point is that i do not wish to re-do all of the back ups. As soon as the plasma is sorted i will be looking into a HTPC which will then replace the cd wallet system with the movies stored on HD.

    Thanks for the helpful replies, i guess it needs a better demo to determine if all of the backups need to be done again. Thanks for the not so helpful replies.
     
  10. av2diefor

    av2diefor
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    100% aggree
     
  11. Member 55145

    Member 55145
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    12,079
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,478
    Im sorry but i think your being far too damn picky or just an utter liar. If you want to save space by keeping the originals in the loft, then keep the boxes in the loft and put the originals in your wallet. if your like me you wouldnt want to as it would scratch the discs.
    So either get disc protectors or get a decent size cabinet down stairs to store your dvds in.

    Sorry but making space downstairs by copying discs illegally seems like a huge waste of time for something that can be done easily another way, if your worried about scratches be more carful when pulling them out. or buy jewel cases and store them in a box (Tradex do a nice silver box that holds 1000 CD's in jewel cases and its not very big at all. id say about 25" x 25" x 6")

    if your being fully legit id be happy to help more on finding you a solution, but you just sound like every one of my mates that back up there friend of a friends DVD. after all if your master gets so badly scratched, what is it, a fiver to replace it?
     
  12. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    26,714
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The Borders
    Ratings:
    +3,077
    DJDAVE

    The 'compressed' copies can only ever look poorer than the originals!

    If you were making 1:1 lossless copies and the DVD playback on your PC was up to scratch fair enough - otherwise you'd be better playing the originals.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  13. Taz69

    Taz69
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,403
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Bristol
    Ratings:
    +343
    If you want to backup films legally they have to be kept at the same format, no compression etc to fit onto a 4.3gb disc, so you would need Dual Layer disks but at around £4 ago if not more for a decent disk then I can't see the point, at the end of the day we are not allowed to talk about piracy of any kind on these forums, and DVD shrink is a very poor program for bitrate issues, you can use what the factories use which is CCE but it costs around £4000 for the software so it would be cheaper to build an extension lol

    Taz
     
  14. voxmagna

    voxmagna
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    DjDave, You ventured into the taboo area and got a sort of predictable response. Since all source material we can realistically acquire to display on a plasma will be compressed video, you have been given the answer. However you have to be realistic about viewing distance as well. If you have good compression you should be impressed at 31/2 to 4 X screen height distance away for HD and 4-6 X for SD. The compromise of compression level, storage capacity and viewing distance will be made already by the content author before distribution on the media. You can rarely better this, since the MPEG decoder is pretty agnostic to output PQ. Of course if you always watch in PAL, you just never saw the intended quality and argue about artefacts and how much better component/RGB/HDMI is, when the source quality never changed.

    Stick your nose up against a plasma, and you'll be looking for more pixels and less compression. So decide what your viewing distance is going to be for the size of plasma. Double the height and your viewing distance should double and pics will look similar.

    When I was looking for plasma rather than lcd, I thought for an average sitting room, 34-37 inches would be great with at least 1280 horizontal pixels. Unfortunately and probably due to the physically closer pixel spacing, non seem to be made.

    Think about projection, the resolutions of the chips and sizes people may project. A real big cinema screen can be filled with a bright 4000 line electronic image and you'd think it was real film. Unfortunately we can't afford this kind of kit or the resolution that a 75mm film could give before it was scanned and canned into a very big hard drive master file.
     
  15. Timmy C

    Timmy C
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2003
    Messages:
    5,177
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +398

    JagoPlasma - Get off your high horse will you!!


    DJDAVE - I think you gonna have to face the fact that compressed back ups will look worse the bigger and better your display gets but I wouldn't take that as a reason not to get a quality/large plasma.

    If you want to 'back up' discs in future for whatever reason (and the way I see it it's your business and no one elses!) I would try and save quality by loosing the extras etc. Don't ask me how to do this though as I haven't got a clue. I just wait until fims are old and cheap and buy the originals!

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
     
  16. Dan L

    Dan L
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,204
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Wotton-under-Edge
    Ratings:
    +110
    All my pirated DVD's look great, HTH
     
  17. Dan L

    Dan L
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,204
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Wotton-under-Edge
    Ratings:
    +110
    *joking*
     
  18. dgsgc

    dgsgc
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    35
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    Again many thanks for the replies. I think I may have been confused by how good DVD’s look on a small 28" screen and I was expecting the same results on a larger screen. My viewing distance will be approx 11 foot from screen so I would expect to see a decent enough picture. I know appreciate the effect that compression has on the final image and adjust my shopping accordingly. Maybe look at the 37" plasmas I think. I either go with the 37 and be able to use my current back ups or go for my original 42" size and wait till I have the HTPC for making uncompressed versions. Either way it’s a lot of work to re-do them all.

    As for what can only be described as accusations...

    It is entirely up to me how anal I wish to be about my original discs being scratched. I do not need to justify why I keep all my originals in the loft and backups for general use and loaning to friends when they pop round (whoops I bet loaning a disc to one of my friends will get a few comments too). I wasn’t aware that compressing them to DVD-r was illegal as I still owned the originals, this has know made me aware and I guess hopefully in no time at all I will start to rip them to HD uncompressed, just have to buy lots more storage space than I though.

    Thanks for all the very helpful replies. Top forum.
    :thumbsup:
     

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice