Component out - E85 vs. DVR520

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by mike72, Aug 9, 2004.

  1. mike72

    mike72
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    I know that this has probably been discussed before, but I have not been able to find anything conclusive in the previous posts, so please bear with me :)

    As I have recently returned my JVC DR-MH30 due to lack of editing possibilities on the HDD-drive, I´m looking for an alternative, and it seems that the choice comes down to those two models.

    The Pioneer has a lot of features I would miss on the E85: dvd-rw (4x) support (and 8x dvd-r), a better timer, i-link, more dvd-menu options, grouping of recordings on HDD, jpeg-viewer and disc-history (ok, they are not all need-to-have :) ).

    I am considering a plasma/lcd television at some point next year, and this is where the E85 has an advantage over the DVR520 as it has component out with progressive scan.

    The question is if this is critical: Will the image on the tv look much better when using PS or do I have to line up the two alternatives to spot the difference ?

    I am aware that there probably are big differences in opinions about this - a factor in this is probably also differences in equipment.

    If somebody have tried the two different outputs on the same dvd-player/-recorder and tv I would much appreciate your input :D

    Regarding comparison of the two recorders I think that noise level and internal tuners are on about the same level (but by now I think I have to try them out at home).

    Regards,
    Mike72
     
  2. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    There will be a visible quality jump: well worth having. Of course a minority of users argue that PS does not offer a picture improvement - and some early models didn't do it that well - but those days are long gone...

    Then why not get the Toshiba RDXS32 which has:
    - DVD-RW
    - iLink
    - Much better menu authoring options than either the Panasonic or Pioneer
    - Component Output & Progressive Scan
     
  3. mike72

    mike72
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    Hi Rasczak

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Regarding the Toshiba it´s not sold here in Denmark - I could probably buy it in Germany or the UK, but if I decide to upgrade at some point it could be hard to sell second-hand as nobody knows it (but perhaps it´s wishful thinking to assume anybody would pay for it after a couple of years).

    Besides that I don´t think the Toshiba supports partial erase on the HDD - you have to divide the recordings at each commercial break and assemble the pieces in a playlist before it can be dubbed to a dvd - but perhaps I´m wrong ? The JVC - which in many respects seems as a good recoder - works this way, and I was very disappointed !

    Maybe I ought to reconsider the E85 after all. I´m not really interested in dvd-ram, but since I don´t think I´ll be sharing that many recordings with friends, the dvd-r might be sufficient (and they are cheap enough to throw away from time to time).

    Editing dv-camera recordings is probably far more adequate on a pc anyway, and regarding jpeg pictures I think it´s possible to burn a slideshow on dvd. It´s my first dvd-recorder (of any kind), so I am a newbie in many respects.

    I could also get the DVR520 and buy a Progressive scan player if the scart rgb output is too bad (are some plasma/lcs tv´s not equipped with their own progressive scan by the way ?)

    ... I think I´ll end up deciding between the two by rolling dices :) ...

    Regards,
    Mike72
     
  4. liteswap

    liteswap
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    You can do partial erase on the Tosh. Divide into chapters and delete the ones you don't want. It's just that it's easier to achieve the same effect using playlists.
     
  5. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Liteswap, Ive found its easier to delete!!, but i thought the point was that if you partial erase you can cause fragmentation, hence its better to do playlists. I would have thought same prinicple applies to Panasonic, unless it defragments by itself
     
  6. bobbles

    bobbles
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    Ebay, dvdr go like hot potatoes there. You would have no problem selling. I just sold my XS30 for £40 less than what I paid for the XS32.

    I would advise you seriously think about the XS32
     
  7. mike72

    mike72
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    The features of the XS32 certainly look great - It seems to combine the strong points from the competition - apart from the lack of editing possibilities on the HDD:

    But as said before: I have perhaps overlooked/misunderstood something in the manual ?
     
  8. bobbles

    bobbles
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    He is wrong, the tosh does support partial erase.

    the editing facilities IMO are much better than on the panasonic. It is incredibly easy and can be done whilst watching the recording rather than only via a menu.

    The only thing the panasonic can do that the tosh can not is divide a title.

    So say if you record 3 consecutive programmes in one title. On the panasonic you would go into an edit menu. Fast forward to the break between the programmes then select the divide title option. You would then need to go into the title with 2 progs left and repeat.

    On the Tosh if anything it is easier to split. Whilst watching the dvd or fast forwarding you can put in as many chapter points as you like. You can then delete the chapters you do not want (ads, breaks between progs) in one go.

    The alternative is to use playlists which is incredibly easy and quick to do. You simply select all the chapters of the programme you have recorded i.e the ones either side of all the ad chapters.
     
  9. mike72

    mike72
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    Actually I was quoting myself :D

    Let me get this straight: You can actually delete parts of the original recording on the HDD ??

    In other words: You mark the in and out points, go to the edit-menu, mark the parts of the original recording you want to delete and press enter ?

    Is this what the manual warns about in the 'Before Editing' paragraph regarding hdd fragmentation? And am I correct in believing that initializing the hdd defragments it ?

    Regarding dividing two consecutive parts I understand the Panasonic-procedure, but not how it´s done on the Toshiba: In your example with 3 consecutive programmes in one title, I assume you make 2 chapter marks (where you would divide on the Panasonic). But how do you separate them afterwards?

    I´m sorry to be this persistent, but the possibility to delete (advert) parts of the original recordings on the hdd is a crucial point to me - so I´m just trying to make sure this one can do it right before I consider it.

    Thanks a lot for your feedback.
     
  10. bobbles

    bobbles
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    ah, sorry

    :blush:

    this is one method yes. This is how I edited on my XS30 and I never had a problem with fragmentation. Also if fragmentation is an issue for the Tosh it must be for the Panny too.

    However, on the better to be safe than sorry mindset, I am now using playlists.

    you would have to select the chapters with the programme you want as one title and create a playlist, literally this takes seconds.

    This leaves the original 3 prog recording as one title and 3 playlists. Too messy? Well if you want you can select the 3 playlists and turn them into titles in their own right, by high speed dubbing onto the HDD. This takes 1 min? per playlist and does this in the background.

    The original 3 prog recording can be then be deleted.

    It sounds very convoluted and time consuming, it really isn't.


    I hope this helps you decide, the tosh is IMO the better machine.

    If you intend lending any recordings, -rw is worth its wait in gold. I rarely use -ram.

    Component output
    Pal progressive
    i link
    better menus


    there is not anything, in terms of editing that the panny can do that the tosh can not. Ok splitting is more convoluted but is still very quick and easy.

    I still think editing is much easier than on the panny because all the chapter points can be put in while you watch.
     
  11. Nicky

    Nicky
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    On the original progressive scan question - you can overplay the importance of progressive scan. On my Tosh XS32 -> Panasonic series 5 plasma I've found:

    i) Film DVD's in progressive scan look perhaps very fractionally better than interlaced but it is very difficult to spot unless you really watch for it.

    ii) TV converted by the XS32 from interlaced RGB to progressive component is clearly worse than when converted to interlaced component.

    The key seems to be the quality of the interlaced to progressive conversion. Plasma's and LCD's always have to do this so reasonable bits of kit should have a decent built-in converter. I can't imagine Tosh's main concern with the XS32 was interlaced to progressive conversion quality. However with film DVD's I think the image never goes through an interlaced stage so you ship a progressive image from the disk to the screen = better quality.

    Nick
     
  12. mike72

    mike72
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    Hi Nicky, this was EXACTLY the kind of information/confirmation I was hoping to get :thumbsup: (allthough I off course am thankful for all feedback)

    The solution to this could be to buy a dedicated dvd-player (perhaps with more focus on the playback part that a recorder) - possibly I´ll wait long enough to get both plasma and dvd-player with hdmi interface.

    I guess I´ll go with the Pioneer then - I am sure the Toshiba would also serve me well, but I think I´ll play it safe and buy the recorder locally (with I cannot do with the Toshiba).

    Regards,
    mike72
     

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