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Component Input/Output

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by bobbles, Jan 10, 2003.

  1. bobbles

    bobbles
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    I have a tosh TV which supports component input via 3 RCA cables

    I am going to buy a Phillips 880 DVDR which supports component output but via RGB scart (apparently)

    Does such thing as an RGB scart to 3 RCA component leads exist

    If so any ideas where I can get one from?

    Cheers Bob
     
  2. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    Bob,

    No, a scart RGB-YUV (component) lead doesn't exist as such, but you can get a converter that will take RGB from scart and give a component output.

    look for one @ Keene - www.keen.co.uk,
    Maplin - www.maplin.co.uk, or
    Lecktropacks - www.lecktropacks.co.uk.

    I am puzzled as to why you'd want to convert your RGB to Component, though. All Toshibas can accept RGB through Scart1.
    I presume you want to use the RGB scart for a digibox, or such.
    If your DVD player has two scart sockets, why not loop the digibox through the DVD and save money on the converter?

    Don't expect any improvement in quality, by converting RGB to YUV. A converted RGB picture will, at best, give the same or similar quality as the RGB feed itself - it's not the same as a pure component signal from DVD fed to the TV inputs, understandably.

    Hope that helps,

    Moory
     
  3. Xeonic

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    Bob,

    YC is right you'll need a RGB to YUV box to convert to YUV component, if that's what you want to output. I've seen the pdf file which says the recorders have a component output, what the're talking about (with the UK models at least) is interlaced RGB via SCART, not YUV!! Although RGB is strictly a component signal in three parts (R-G-B), using that term in this case is plain confusing!
     
  4. bobbles

    bobbles
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    I will have

    Sky+ (replacing normal sky)
    Phillips 800 DVDR (replacing Tosh 210 Multi DVD)
    Tosh ZP18Q
    X-Box

    I already have a RGB switchbox so I can use the RGB scart on the tosh for the sky and X-box

    However the Specs for the Phillips 880 quote component output through RGB scart, i take it this is not the same as the component output i am currently using (from what Xeonic was saying)

    The DVDR has two RGB scarts so I would have linked them anyway to record from sky+ onto DVD

    So I would have TV RGB Scart to Sky+ to DVDR ?

    would this set up enable me to watch dvds through RGB Scart?

    If so how, wouldn't AV1 on my TV show me sky+?


    I am sorry for so many questions, cheers for any answers

    Bob


    :confused:
     
  5. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Some manufacturers do deal with true (US style) YUV component through SCARTS but this is not a standard. This would not be the first time this has happened. Arcam might (not sure) on DVD players, Loewe certainly have this non standard component on SCARTS on some of it's tvs. A component to Scart lead is needed which are available from lectropacks / keene etc as a special build. Often worth getting 4 leads going to the SCART rather than 3 (inc composite) as it may save problems later.

    You perhaps need to confirm YUV before hand on the Philips which I can't help with.
     
  6. bobbles

    bobbles
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    I can see how this would work


    TV RGB Scart AV1 -> DVDR -> Sky+


    Then I could watch Sky+ through the DVDR when the DVDR is tuned to AV1

    but....

    I couldn't watch sky+ whilst recording something else on the DVDR

    I suppose ideal would be

    TV RGB Scart AV1 -> Sky+ -> DVDR

    and a feature on sky+ that would allow me to watch the DVDR, like sellecting AV1 on the DVDR in the previous set up

    does such I thing exist

    I really need some advice on setting this up, looping etc



    :confused:
     
  7. YellowCows

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    OK, Bob

    Normally, the trick is to always have the primary source as the primary link in the chain. In other words, the item you use most of the time should be the one hooked directly to AV1. The secondary source should be looped through.

    In your case it would be:
    DVDR (Scart1)OUT--->Video SCART on Sky+;
    Sky+ TV SCART ---> AV1 on Toshiba.

    The switching feature is automatic. Whenever you are playing a disc on the DVDR, it sends a switching signal that will override the SKY+ signal - i.e. SKY+ will automatically switch into 'pass-through' mode, bypassing its own output, and feeding the signal from its VCR scart to AV1. This is a standard feature from the days of analogue broadcasting, and is one of the few unique beneifits of the Peritel Euroconnector (read 'Scart'). The good thing about this is that the pass-through should work even if you're recording a program on the SKY+, and want to watch a DVD on the Philips.

    All this 'pass-thru' stuff means you'll need good quality cables to offset the (hopefully minor) signal degradation caused by daisy-chaining electronics.

    Having said that, due to the nature of the connections on the 880 (Scart 1 RGB OUT, no IN & Scart 2 RGB IN, no OUT), you can't loop the recorder through the SKY box and record in RGB. For that, you MUST loop the output from the Sky+box through the DVDR, with the DVDR being the primary source. The only possible solution I could suggest is perhaps using the S-video output on the SKY+ box, (get an S-Video & 2 Phono TO Scart lead - Ixos or QED or even el-cheapo brands like Vivianco make these) and having a secondary SKY+ connection to Scart 2 or3 on the TV. That way, when you're recording on the DVDR, you can still watch SKY in high quality (albeit not as high as RGB, but get a godd quality cable, and you'll see - S-video can be superb).

    You could always just hook the DVDR itself to Scart 2 or 3 on the TV, and switch it to S-Video from its output (Scart 1), but you should always try to extract the best picture from high-resolution formats such as DVD. So, to summarise, I would recommend This:

    SKY+ RGB OUT --->DVDR SCART 2
    DVDR SCART 1---> Toshiba SCART1;
    SKY+ S-video & 2 Phono Audio ---> Toshiba SCART 2 (or 3) via 'S-Video & Stereo Audio to SCART' cable

    Long-winded, I know, but I hope it gives you something to work with.

    All the Best,

    Moory:)
     
  8. bobbles

    bobbles
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    thanks for all that, I think I got my head round it

    One thing to consider though, Is that I doubt I will be using the DVDR to record TV progs real time

    I only anticipate using the DVDR to put stuff I have recorded on sky+ onto DVD+RW

    The first set up you suggested would be fine

    providing the following is correct

    I can record on sky+ whilst watching a dvd
    (which you say it does)


    should the situation arise when I need to record two things at once whilst watching sky+ then recording non RGB via the DVDR that I didn't want to archive would be fine

    Thanks again
     
  9. bobbles

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    Things would be an awful lot easier if they made more than one scart RGB compatable
     
  10. bobbles

    bobbles
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    Moory

    Just had sky+ installed tried the daisy chain looping it works a treat with my old tosh dvd, the automatic switching is amazing.

    (The picture was terrible at first, it took me a while to remember to change the set up of the DVD to RGB and not S-Video!)

    Still one thing that confuses me though with regards to the DVDR which I am getting next week

    According to the first set up you suggested I would only be using the RGB out scart and not the RGB in scart on the DVDR, so this is why you said I couldn't record in RGB

    I think I have come up with my ideal connection

    TV AV1 RGB SCART ------> SKY+ TV SCART

    SKY + VCR SCART ------> RGB SWITCHBOX

    in switchbox

    DVDR RGB OUT, DVD RGB IN, X-BOX

    so normally I would have it switched to DVDR RGB Out allowing me watch both DVD and Sky+ in RGB

    If I want to record what I have saved from Sky+ to DVD+RW I would simply switch it to DVD RGB IN

    Does this sound ok, sounds good to me :)

    Thanks again for help
     
  11. YellowCows

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    Bob,

    Bear in mind that the VCR scart on all digiboxes outputs composite video ONLY, though it accepts RGB from other sources to pass through to the TV.

    The only way to get RGB from SKY is using the TV Scart, I'm afraid - that includes Sky+ boxes. The good thing about Sky+ (and Grundig digiboxes) is that it has an extra S-video port.

    Unfortunately the setup with the switchbox won't give you RGB from Sky+ to the DVDR. The best compromise is to get the S-video & 2 Phono to SCART cable I was telling you about, and use that to link the S-video output on the Digibox to the Input Scart on the DVDR (the 880 will accept S-video as well as RGB and composite on Scart 2).

    You can then use the switchbox to toggle between the DVDR and X-box RGB outputs.

    Does that make sense? I hope I've explained it OK.

    Cheers,

    Moory
     
  12. bobbles

    bobbles
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    bugger
     
  13. bobbles

    bobbles
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    Moory,

    what about

    not sure if this would work

    RGB SWITCHBOX --> TV RGB SCART AV1

    SKY+ RGB TV SCART -> DVDR RGB IN -> DVDR RGB OUT -> RGB SWITCHBOX

    X-BOX RGB OUT --> RGB SWITCHBOX


    I will never need to watch the dvd and sky+ at the same time

    If I am copying onto DVD+RW I can not watch anything other on sky+ than what I am recording

    Would this work?
     
  14. bobbles

    bobbles
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    Actually I think I am becoming a little obsessed with recording in RGB / S-Video

    I have no intention of recording in the 1hr mode, I will prob use the 4hr mode on the DVD+RW

    So would only use a composite signal through the VCR Scart to the DVDR make all that much difference?
     
  15. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    The difference between Composite and RGB is very significant. The difference between S-video and RGB isn't as significant. This is because S-video carries a separate signal for Luminance (brightness - which the eye is very sensitive to) and chrominance (colour - which the eye is less sensitive to), instead of mixing the brightness and colour together, like Composite video.

    RGB is, as its name suggests, a 'component' signal - in other words, Red, Green & Blue signals (the three components that make up a full colour picture in TV tubes) are sent indepedently to the TV. BTW, remember not to mistake RGB 'component' for what is usually called 'component' video, which is YUV - Luminance, Red & Blue (green is calculated from the difference between the other two).

    So, to answer your last question first, yes, you will notice a difference if you use a composite input. This is especially the case on a DVD recorder - the high resolution of the medium demands a high-quality source. Granted, in the lowest-quality mode, the difference is reduced, as the low bit rate will mean the picture recorded will inevitably be inferior to the source, but I still maintain - the better the input, the better the output. It's not important for simple timeshifting, but you'd want decent pictures on your discs if you want to keep 'em for posterity.

    As for the connection, if you do it that way, you can lose the switchbox altogether, because you can loop the X-box thru the Sky+ box, and hey presto! The RGB signal would pass from the X-box through Sky+, through the DVDR, to the TV Scart1! It would look like this:

    X-Box RGB OUT--->SKY+ VCR Scart
    SKY+ TV SCART--->DVDR SCART INPUT (RGB IN)
    DVDR OUTPUT (RGB OUT)--->Toshiba AV1

    Use this suggestion if you don't plan on playing games while recording on the DVDR. Otherwise, your 'layout' will work just fine.

    Glad to Help

    Moory:)
     
  16. bobbles

    bobbles
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    It does pay to have a good think about the set up



    I thought of your suggestion

    ....but the sky+ VCR isn't RGB and my X-box is outputting in RGB

    don't tell me the VCR scart out will accept and relay RGB in but not output it????
     
  17. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    That's exactly how it works - the VCR scart will accept an RGB input from an external source, as you yourself have seen with your Toshiba DVD player, but it only ouputs the Sky picture in composite video and stereo audio.

    The digibox design was intended for connection to standard VHS VCR's, not even S-VHS ones! The addition of RGB-loopthrough (from VCR scart to TV scart) is a standard feature on pay-tv satellite boxes.
     
  18. bobbles

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    :eek:

    what can I say to that

    no more switchbox

    ;)
     
  19. bobbles

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    the thing is Moory, I ready knew that

    that is what I am currently doing with my Tosh DVD after your initial suggestion

    what a plonker it was later found out that the VCR scart on sky+ only outputted in composite, so I forgot about what I was doing now



    :eek: :rolleyes:
     

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