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completly stuck, culprit av amp or speakers or cd player.

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by mick23, Aug 5, 2003.

  1. mick23

    mick23
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    hi all really stuck at the moment as regards whats the drawback regarding 2 channel sterio replay.

    i have 3802, cdm1nts ,nad 540 cd player. having seen that in general the 3802 is not good at sterio, and have in the past heard arcam av200 with £1000 dvd player, nad 370 with nad 541i cd player, arcam a85 +541i, rotel rao1 , all with cdm1nts all sounding better than 3802, but only tried with good recordings as follows, m/knopfler golden heart, p/floyd mr blue sky, dido.

    have owned a85 and found smoothness was not there ,(this turned out i believe to an initial problem with a single tweeter driver)

    i have had problems in the past with my particular pair of cdms, all drivers +tweeters /crossovers have been replaced ,both speakers now sound simular to each other, now had at least 175 hours run in ,

    there are other owners of 3802 who state sterio is not that good and use differant brand of speakers ,cd player etc.


    having just hired stones 40 licks found sterio is really bland,flat , i describe sterio as sounding flat, my mate describes sterio as if half the instuments are "missing"


    have asked quite a few dealers whats the culprit 3802 or cd player or speakers, and got totally conflicting answers, such as

    1. cdms easy to drive vs hard to drive.

    2. not much benifit changing cd player vs cd player needs to be better.

    3 3802 is good in sterio ,others say it is not.


    i just am completly lost as to weather its cdms detailed but not musical?

    3802 poor in sterio ,or not suited to cdms???

    cd player ok or not.

    as it stands at the mo i would prefer to keep 3802 for av add integrated if this will add benifit , (have tried c7 ,found this a bit lean)

    bit loathe to sell cdms unless they are the cause of lack of musicality.

    ps i have credit note with moorgate for about £400 , but have no idea what i might use this to purchase to improve sterio differant cd player integrated or speakers??? thank you
     
  2. nwgarratt

    nwgarratt
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    Probably the CD player. I have heard a few NAD players and non of them sound good to me.

    Is the 3802 NAD?

    B&W CDM's are fine but I wouldn't use NAD stuff.

    I used to have Technics seperates and now I have recently (like yesterday) got hold a new Technics amp and CD player. The sound I used to love hearing is back.

    I would say lkeep the speakers but change at least the CD player.

    I have heard CDM1SE's and they were wonderful (I have B&W 600 S2 set of speakers) and old B&W 2002 speakers.

    There hasn't been B&W speakers I don't like.

    My brother has the a 520 CD player with a 320 amp with mission speakers. He is happy but I wouldn't be.

    Hope that is some help.
     
  3. mjn

    mjn
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    the CDM's aren't hard to drive, but they sound better with decent amplification.
     
  4. mick23

    mick23
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    thanks all
    nwgarret and mjn when i first demoed denon 3802+cdms arcam cd player was used cd72 i believe was model ,hotel california was played at high volume and combo sounded smooth.

    at the time i had technics cd player, but this would not play cdrs, so had demo of arcam 62 and nad 540 but playing m/knopflers golden heart cd a fairly mellow good recording, found little differance as regards cd players 540 was cheaper so purchased.

    at home if playing h/california on nad 540 it was not as smooth sounding as initial demo. so its cd player i suspect???

    later i had demo of cdms,3802 with integrated amps nad370 a85 rotel ra o1 all sounded better than 3802, but nad 541i was used not nad 540, this made me think better amp???


    had another dem cdm1nts with r/caspian amp and densen beat mk5 integrated with exposure cd player , took along a wide range of cds, most of my cds are a bit on the old side circa 1992 ere.

    found cdms to be a bit harsh , cdms at fault or older recordings???



    i phoned lintone audio for some advice the unison research unico hybrid valve amp was suggested as working very well with cdms,

    i have found one for sale at reasonable cost and will give this a try .

    mjn i did try rotel powers 985 981 as you state more grunt for av but found rotel powers a bit harsh sounding either with 3802 tuner and some cds especially when cold.
     
  5. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    My findings too. Firstly the Denon is frankly shameful for a £800 amp in stereo. It is flat & thin-sounding, making any recording sound dull. IMO even Yamaha's midrange amps get the feet tapping first.

    Second the NAD 540 is a smooth sounding player too, perhaps too smooth. It can lack excitement .

    The B&W speakers are great & not too hard to drive, but they love more power.

    As a combination, your player and amp are combining to hold back detail and excitement, not giving those nice speakers a chance.

    My solution: use your £400 towards a powerful AND exciting sounding amp (but not harsh) such as the Roksan Kandy MKIII. Lovely amp and should really lift your CD's and make the speakers sing. Alternatively something from Cyrus or Rega could suit too.
     
  6. mick23

    mick23
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    thanks nobber i did try cyrus 7 at home myself being a bit deaf in the left ear , did not notice much differance between c7 and 3802 my mate could tell and thought cyrus better.


    i have made arrangements to purchase the unico hybrid amp on the hifi choice forum from a member, though this should have enough power, being the unico has a valve preamp stage, and solid state power section , not sure how this will all combine though.


    the main problem for me is most of my cds do sound a bit to harsh and flat, with above kit, only a very few sound better but not as good as i believe they should.
     
  7. mjn

    mjn
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    maybe invest in a good quality DAC?? Sevenoaks have a Musical Fidelity A3 24bit reduced to £500.
     
  8. Stereo Steve

    Stereo Steve
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    Demo a Rotel 1055 Reciever. It will blow you away and has all the bells and whistles. Maybe try to find a second hand one as they ar around £1200 new.

    It's a brilliant reciever and totally ignored and under-rated.
     
  9. mick23

    mick23
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    thanks all sterio steve i have rotel rc972 pre i tried this with rotel 985 5 channel power amp to use as my sterio set up with nad 540+cdms, found it more detailed than 3802 , but still a bit harsh with cdms.

    thinking that cdms having metal tweeters/kevlar bass/midrange drivers, i tried rotel with old m/short speakers silk dome tweeters /paper drivers, still found sound not to my liking and sold on rotel power amp.

    as it stands i should recieve unico next week will see if things pan out any better, phoned kj west one for advice info concerning unico (as they stock the unico) was adviced its a step in the right direction)

    if no joy that a change of speaker to dyaudio 52,sonus faber concertoes, might bring a a more musical sound.



    thanks all
     
  10. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Pair of Neat Critique speakers on slate stands, powered by a Naim pre-power. Its as musical as I have ever managed and I have not upgraded for about 8 years, but one mans meat...etc.

    Loads of CD recordings are poor and the better the system the more apparent this becomes.
     
  11. mjn

    mjn
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    That is very true!!
     

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