Compact subs.....

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by AV Geeza, Apr 2, 2002.

  1. AV Geeza

    AV Geeza
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    Im looking for a sub that is;
    a) Compact - as a large box will not be acceptable to er in doors.
    b) Fast - I will use it with music as well as films so I dont want it lagging behind my fronts.
    c) Able - Deeeeeep bass, that is controlled.

    Im considering the M&K MX700 but would like any suggestions upto around £1500.

    Cheers :D
     
  2. Guest

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    Why not at least try one of those celestion S80 subs which RS are currently doing for £120 off list = £79.95. If you don't like it you'll always at least get yer dosh back (or make a few quid on eBay). From what I've heard, it's a very well-made pretty decent item. Dark applewood finish or Black and small-ish.

    No need to go to anywhere near £1500 for a small sub. And before you start dissing cheaper subs like the aforementioned, it's the in-room response which matters. Paper specs are not so relevant. The Celestion might just be perfect for your room (and missus).

    Mike.
     
  3. pc

    pc
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    It is generally much more challenging to produce deep fast tight bass from a small enclosure and therefore good ones tend to cost more.

    With regards to designing a small sub there are various routes that are commonly taken by the designers.

    One option is to port the sub. This is the cheapest method but the ports are tuned to a specific frequency so whilst the reponse at that freq. may be fine, once you try to produce beneath that freq. the sub rolls off very quickly. Most ports are tuned around the 40-50 Hz area to give the impression of producing lots of bass, but without true depth. This can be particularly obvious when listening to music as it can appear to be 'one note' and therefore not very 'musical'. All high quality subs that I know of are sealed boxes. There is an argument to suggest the same is true of standard (not subs) speakers, but thats another thread......

    Another option is to use servo feedback. This takes the signal going in to the circuit, compares it to the output of the circuit and then cancels the difference (this is the distortion). Whilst this works fine on a sine wave in a lab because the signal is one tone and therefore predictable, it can be less successful with a constantly changing signal (ie music or film) because by the time the feedback is introduced to the signal the input has already changed. This leads to a design that will generally have much higher output (great for large rooms) but at the expense of total accuracy. Servo feedback was used extensively in power amp design a few years back but is now, by some, not considered the best way of acheiving accuracy.

    With reference to the MX700, firstly an MX125 at less money will out perform it. But this uses two 12" units push / pull in a large (sealed) cabinet. The MX700 will come close, particularly in small to medium sized rooms. It uses two 8" units in push / pull in a much smaller cabinet. The cabinet is sealed and solid. A smaller sub is nearly always a compromise to some extent (for the sake of domestic bliss a very common compromise - including my system), but the MX700 is the best compact sub I've come across. M&K at shows use two MX700's to show off what they can do from a domestically acceptable cabinet size.
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
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    For those not in the know, M & K are distributed in this country by pc's company Gecko.
     
  5. Matt F

    Matt F
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    Also check out the M&K MX70B - like the MX700 it also uses two 8" drivers in a push pull configuration - it has less power than the MX700 - 125 watts but it's still supposed to be very good. It takes up less floor space than the MX700 but it's taller. It's also quite a bit cheaper but still around £1000.

    Check www.mksound.com for the specs.
     
  6. Jeff

    Jeff
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    The B&W ASW2500 is fairly compact and highly rated. I have one and I'm very happy with it. Costs about £800. Much better than the Rel Q200 that I also tested.

    Jeff
     
  7. Lowrider

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    I bought 2 REL Strata III, not larger than the MX700. Placed close to each of the front speakers, they integrate perfectly, very fast and deep, 18hz - 6db, closed box (easier to place), and within your budget.
     
  8. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    Flimber wrote...

    "Why not at least try one of those celestion S80 subs which RS are currently doing for £120 off list = £79.95..."

    Alas, the current price of the Celestion S80s on the Richer Sounds website is given as £199.95. Or am I misreading their price list?

    They do list a real cheapie sub: the Gale SW5 at £49.95 brand-new. I've no idea what it's like, though presumably it ought at least to be better than no sub at all...

    Bert
    http://www.bertcoules.co.uk
     
  9. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I think that some of us are missing the point. Mr Geeza has a budget of £1,500 and presumably already has speakers of a decent standard and will not want to spoil the sound that he has with a £50 subwoofer.
     
  10. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    Oh, I realise that (and I envy Mr Geeza his budget); I was responding purely to Flimber's rather eye-catching point about the excellent RS price for the Celestion model.

    Mind you, as Flimber said, spending £1500 won't necessarily get you results 30 times better than spending £50.

    Bert
     
  11. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Bert,

    I agree with you but there do seem to be price bands for different quality subbies and a £1500 sub should be much better than a cheap one.
     
  12. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I don't entirely agree with Paul comments but he does have to sell his subs for a living. M and K do some nice kit. Jeffs recomendation is worth pursuing as it is a good sub. But don't forget you can't get a quart into a pint pot, something has to give.
     
  13. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    I agree of course that while expensive may not necessarily equal better, on the whole you do tend to get what you pay for.

    I have little experience of home-cinema sound, so perhaps this is a naive comment (and I realise that I'm not talking about particularly expensive gear) but I was listening today in someone's home to the combination of a Denon 1802 receiver and the Denon/Mission AV-F100 speaker package - and I was surprised at how little bass the system seemed to produce.

    The best bass came from a Dolby Digital DVD, which was markedly better than several Pro Logic II/stereo sources (from a Panasonic Sky box a VHS tape and music CDs.)

    I was aware that Dolby Digital sound is considered superior to Pro Logic II but was taken aback by the scale of the difference, especially, as I say, with the bass. Is this to be expected? Or could the setup have been somewhat adrift somewhere?

    Bert
     
  14. MoonsSpawn

    MoonsSpawn
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    You might want to audition Velodyne's SPL-800 or 1000.

    The SPL-800 has 600 Watts of power RMS, costs £900, and measures a svelte 25.5x28x25cm

    The SPL-1000 is slightly bigger and boasts 750 Watts RMS. It costs around £1200 I believe.

    Steve.
     
  15. Ian J

    Ian J
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    DD is fully discrete and the sound engineer can direct special low freqencies to the sub woofer.

    Having heard your friend's system, try and have a listen to something a little more expensive and you will be amazed at the power and scale that can be achieved.

    It doesn't have to cost a fortune (relatively speaking) as there are many bargains to be found, new or second hand.
     
  16. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    Ian, thanks for the reply. It seems that I was more correct than I realised with "you get what you pay for"...

    Secondhand is an interesting idea, though. I suspect that this is an area where a lot of upgrading goes on, so a fair bit of recent kit might well be available.

    I was interested in your explanation that Dolby Digital routes special low frequencies to the subwoofer. I thought that an AV amp did this anyway for every source, but clearly the difference between DD and the rest is considerably more than I had imagined.

    Thanks again,

    Bert
     
  17. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    Second-hand is definitely worth looking into. The problem being that you can't audition for an extended period of time.

    Sony, Denon, etc bring out new models every year and you can often pick up last year's model in RS, or second-hand. Offsetting the lack of auditioning is the fact that if you're not happy with an item you can usually sell it on for about the same as you paid for it. This is especially true of items like subs. You can pick up a REL Q100E for £300, Q50 for around £175. I've seen a Stentor for £600 (£1800 new) - great value if you've got the space!

    The classifieds section of this forum is a good place to indicate that you're interested in a particular item - that's how I got my sub.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  18. Matt F

    Matt F
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    Sorry to dig up an old post but I came across the following the other day and thought it might fit the bill:

    http://www.pmcloudspeaker.co.uk/tlef.htm

    Matt.
     

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