Answered Commercial use of drone

R1NW00D

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Hi guys, I’d appreciate any advice I can get on this.

I’ve got a Mavic pro and been having fun flying recreationally. Recently a company my friend works for saw my videos and pics on Instagram and asked me to get a few shots for them to use on their website. I’d love to do this for them but then I checked the CAA website to see if I needed to do anything before hand. So it’s my understanding that this counts as commercial use even if I don’t get paid as its for a company’s use. And I would need to do a course (£1500 aprox) and then get permission costing £170(aprox) and as this was kind of a one time thing it’s way too much.

So my question is, is there a LEGAL work around where everyone’s happy? If I can state I’m not getting paid and then it’s th company’s choice what they use the shots for or something like that where I get to do the job, the company gets their shots and no one gets in trouble.

I kind of wish I just did it and pleaded ignorance if I got caught but that ship has sailed and I try to be more responsible than that.

Thanks again for any advice.

P.S if anyone knows a good forum to go on for this question too that might help!
 
Any monetary gain requires CAA permission.
 
Even if it’s done as a favour, there is an element of ‘gain’ for the pilot, and hence would fall foul of regulation.

You can give your footage to a company, and they can use it to promote their company all within the rules.

The only issue the CAA will have is if you're being commissioned to do work for your own commercial gain.

You can even sell your footage to a third party, as long as when you created that footage there was no intention to profit it.

I have completed the PfCO course, and had all this clarified by the instructors. The benefit of getting the Permission for Commercial Operations from the CAA is that you can be commissioned to do work, and you can capture photographs and video specifically with the intention of selling them afterwards. It also has some advantages to where you can legally fly, and your ability to get insurance.

Of course the major issue is the limitations that non-PfCO drone operators have on where they can fly. Legally, you can't fly within 150 metres of a congested area or within 50 metres of anything that isn't under your control (like buildings, people, any structure etc.) So if you're giving footage away to a commercial company that breaks these rules, you're opening yourself up to potential problems.
 
Thanks this sounds right! How did you find the pfco course by the way?
 
Thanks this sounds right! How did you find the pfco course by the way?

It was a pretty heavy 3 day course. 2 days of ground school at a professional pilots training centre in Bristol, with an exam at the end, followed by operational manual writing and flight test.

If I'm honest, I found the ground school a bit over the top - lots of learning about weather forecasting, map reading, airspace, European air law. Most of it will not be relevant for most of your commercial flying.

The flight test was surprisingly tough. I've been flying quads for nearly 2 years, but flying figures of eight and falling squares in ATTI mode in a 12MPH wind was challenging. Especially when the guy observing my test was an RAF reaper pilot.

I completed the course in October, and the CAA still haven't given the approval yet. I'm hoping it will come in the next few weeks.

Aside form the cost of the course, which is around £1200 depending on where you go, you also need commercial insurance, which depending on your equipment is about 350 a year.

I would advise going with a provider that also helps you with your ops manual. I believe most of them do.
 
I looked into it and it did seem over the the top and costly for something you can only fly VLOS.
 
I quite enjoyed the ground school, the instructor was great. Found the meteorological elements and map reading quite fascinating. To be honest I'm in total agreement with the Government - it needs regulating. Once you start delving into everything there is a lot to learn to be as safe as possible, things you wouldn't normally consider.

Must have another browse through my books, quite a while since I did the course.

(edit, in fact it's been six months since I last flew my P4P!)
 
Im am sure the course is Very interesting and would take the course if i could find a commercial application to use a drone, and that it wasnt so expensive .
Im Assuming you are still governed when qualified to 400 feet altitude and VLOS.
 
Im am sure the course is Very interesting and would take the course if i could find a commercial application to use a drone, and that it wasnt so expensive .
Im Assuming you are still governed when qualified to 400 feet altitude and VLOS.

Yes, you are restricted to VLOS and 400ft above take off height.

The only thing it does change is your ability to fly within 150m of congested areas. With PfCO you can fly within 50, or closer if you have permission from the owner of any structure you’re flying near.

I made about £1500 of income in the first month of commercial operations, and pretty much £0 in the second. All of which came from stock footage.

I’m only doing it as a sideline for a bit of fun, so having covered the costs of the course, I can relax. The market is way too saturated to make a living from it on its own, unless your already well established.
 
It would seem that in the USA , their equivalent "Pt 107" seems much easier and cheaper to take than ours here.
If i could guarantee covering the costs ,then i would get the go for it , but not just on spec .
I did somewhat assume their would be quite a number of people well established and qualified ,so making it quite hard for a newly qualified operator to find work.
 
It was a pretty heavy 3 day course. 2 days of ground school at a professional pilots training centre in Bristol, with an exam at the end, followed by operational manual writing and flight test.

If I'm honest, I found the ground school a bit over the top - lots of learning about weather forecasting, map reading, airspace, European air law. Most of it will not be relevant for most of your commercial flying.

The flight test was surprisingly tough. I've been flying quads for nearly 2 years, but flying figures of eight and falling squares in ATTI mode in a 12MPH wind was challenging. Especially when the guy observing my test was an RAF reaper pilot.

I completed the course in October, and the CAA still haven't given the approval yet. I'm hoping it will come in the next few weeks.

Aside form the cost of the course, which is around £1200 depending on where you go, you also need commercial insurance, which depending on your equipment is about 350 a year.

I would advise going with a provider that also helps you with your ops manual. I believe most of them do.

I'm thinking of adding drone work to my fledgling photography business... I have no experience with drones whatsoever, so I would buy a drone at <7kg to get flight practise and then go from there?
I think I may be eligible for some kind of exemption from some of the required qualifications (CAP 722 has a table referring to aviation experience)? I say this because I got my Commercial Pilots Licence some 10 years ago (never used in anger) and have just retired from the RAF as a former pilot. So whilst the Air Navigation Order and Military/Civil Aviation Regulations are not new to me, flying a drone with the hope of doing it commercially is absolutely virgin territory.

Any advice from anyone currently doing 'aerial work' would be greatly appreciated... :)

Pete.
 
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I'm thinking of adding drone work to my fledgling photography business... I have no experience with drones whatsoever, so I would buy a drone at <7kg to get flight practise and then go from there?
I think I may be eligible for some kind of exemption from some of the required qualifications (CAP 722 has a table referring to aviation experience)? I say this because I got my Commercial Pilots Licence some 10 years ago (never used in anger) and have just retired from the RAF as a former pilot. So whilst the Air Navigation Order and Military/Civil Aviation Regulations are not new to me, flying a drone with the hope of doing it commercially is absolutely virgin territory.
I strongly suspect I may know the reaper pilot and would be curious to find out?
Any advice from anyone currently doing 'aerial work' would be greatly appreciated... :)

Pete.

With your existing qualifications, I believe you would only need to complete the flight test aspect of the course. Most of the training providers offer this as a seperate product. Probably worth checking first though.

If you're looking to offer aerial photography alongside your existing range of services, I would look at getting something like the DJI Phantom 4Pro as an absolute minimum. While the video is pretty good from the cheaper models, the stills are not good enough for professional use. The P4pro has a 1 inch sensor, and is a major step up in terms of quality.

Personally, I wouldn't rely on aerial photography to provide a steady income. There is definitely a market, but there is also a lot of competition. Not only from professionals with the appropriate qualifications, but also from hobbyists who are happy to give stuff away for free.

The guy that did my flight test had the initials A.B. if that helps.
 
The guy that did my flight test had the initials A.B. if that helps.

Doesn't ring any bells...

I'll give the CAA a ring too as I'm no longer flying and would like to know if this matters? My last sortie as a pilot and flying instructor was in November last year. Decades of going 'up diddly up' and now I'm interested in drones... go figure. Having started my photography business this January I'm off to a very slow start. Perhaps unsurprisingly and no doubt it's a difficult/saturated market anyway. I have decided to go into video too as this may help (I'm very interested in making videos anyway) - hence adding drone footage where possible.

That was some super advice on the Phantom 4 Pro using a 1" sensor - thank you. Perhaps I'll start with a consumer standard small drone to learn the ropes and then step up (suggestions please)? Flying an aircraft is very different to the 'playstation' style controls of a drone.

I may never earn a decent living from what I do - but boy I'll have lots of fun regardless!!:D
 
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Doesn't ring any bells... The reaper guys have grown in number over the years. I'm sure if I ask around my former colleagues I'll find out.

I'll give the CAA a ring too as I'm no longer flying and would like to know if this matters? My last sortie as a pilot and flying instructor was in November last year. Decades of going 'up diddly up' and now I'm interested in drones... go figure. Having started my photography business this January I'm off to a very slow start. Perhaps unsurprisingly and no doubt it's a difficult/saturated market anyway. I have decided to go into video too as this may help (I'm very interested in making videos anyway) - hence adding drone footage where possible.

That was some super advice on the Phantom 4 Pro using a 1" sensor - thank you. Perhaps I'll start with a consumer standard small drone to learn the ropes and then step up (suggestions please)? Flying an aircraft is very different to the 'playstation' style controls of a drone.

I may never earn a decent living from what I do - but boy I'll have lots of fun regardless!!:D


I may have the name wrong - it was the one on my documentation, but the were 3 trainers.

I would start with something like a Phantom 3S. You can pick them up second hand for about £250, its very capable, and you’ll find the transition to higher spec aircraft seemless.

The trouble with going with consumer level equipment is that they’re virtually unusable in anything but very calm conditions. The Phantom 3 will fly in 15MPH winds with no trouble. The 1080p video is pretty good, but the stills are no better than 2nd or 3rd gen phone cameras.
 
I may have the name wrong - it was the one on my documentation, but the were 3 trainers.

I would start with something like a Phantom 3S. You can pick them up second hand for about £250, its very capable, and you’ll find the transition to higher spec aircraft seemless.

The trouble with going with consumer level equipment is that they’re virtually unusable in anything but very calm conditions. The Phantom 3 will fly in 15MPH winds with no trouble. The 1080p video is pretty good, but the stills are no better than 2nd or 3rd gen phone cameras.

Thank you. I'll do some research and wait to get answers from outside of the forum - already got mates helping, so all's good. Then I'll be in a better place to decide to splash out or be conservative and just get something inexpensive to learn with.
 
From what i have seen of inexpensive drones is enough to put you off buying one in the first place.

DJI Drones i would say are miles above the rest out their ,so easy to fly and stable .
 
These days you need a new angle to make money from drones. Fit it with a thermal image camera, learn to fly indoors and have a drone fitted with optical position hold - anything other than videography!

I've made over £9000 from my drone, legally and without CAA PFAW. How? I wrote a book and sold it through Amazon (£3K in 2 years) and I fly in warehouses and factories. It's a fun hobby and it led to me getting a much better job within the business as an innovation champion.

There's a DHL trend report on UAVs that's worth reading. It's a free download and there's other reports on everything from electric vehicles to block chain. All written by experts and if you bought them as research papers, they would cost you a fortune. Really interesting reading :) - http://www.dhl.com/content/dam/downloads/g0/about_us/logistics_insights/DHL_TrendReport_UAV.pdf
 
These days you need a new angle to make money from drones. Fit it with a thermal image camera, learn to fly indoors and have a drone fitted with optical position hold - anything other than videography!

I've made over £9000 from my drone, legally and without CAA PFAW. How? I wrote a book and sold it through Amazon (£3K in 2 years) and I fly in warehouses and factories. It's a fun hobby and it led to me getting a much better job within the business as an innovation champion.

There's a DHL trend report on UAVs that's worth reading. It's a free download and there's other reports on everything from electric vehicles to block chain. All written by experts and if you bought them as research papers, they would cost you a fortune. Really interesting reading :) - http://www.dhl.com/content/dam/downloads/g0/about_us/logistics_insights/DHL_TrendReport_UAV.pdf

If you're being paid to operate a UAV, then PfCO is still needed. Even if you fly indoors. The CAA are quite clear about this.

Regulations relating to the commercial use of small drones | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Indoor use - The regulations make no distinction between flights made indoors or in the open; the whole safety criteria continue to apply. Certain hazard factors are heavily mitigated by the fact that the aircraft is flying in an enclosed environment and access to the venue can be controlled.
 
Thank you, that’s really helpful. I know we have a letter on file somewhere from the CAA stating use indoors was not within their remit, but I can quite see why it would. I will suggest our project manager checks with our contact.
 

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