Comer's HS60.........

theritz

Active Member
Well folks, Vexorg and I ventured as far as Comerville to have a look at his new HS60. I was interested to see what the HS60 was like in comparison to the Z3 and Vexorg is in the market for a new toy so this was a worthwhile outing.

What can I say ? Appalling VB, screendoor visible at 1.5 times seating distance, a high pitched whine from the fans, nice milky-grey "greys", couldn't have been more of a turkey if it had Bernard Matthews name on it'd back sitting in a tin tray on Christmas Eve.... ????

Well not really.......... :devil: It's very difficult to find fault with any of the picture performance - blacks were really well rendered in-scene, "grey bars" on 2.35:1 material were very dark grey, on full blackout screen you could make shadow animals, but then you can do that on any digital projector - if it's any worthwhile indication, an all black screen produced markedly less light off the screen than the Z3.

Comer's settings on the projector produce a bright (on a 78" wide 1.0 gain matt white screen) punchy image - super clean performance from Theatertek with ffdshow. the image is "contrasty" and 3D-like, with very natural skintones and super colour reproduction. We had the opportunity with Comer's assistance to do some tweaking with test-patterns, concentrating on brightness and contrast - we set up an alternative setting which had a little more shadow detail, but the effect was quite subtle - the real discovery here wasn't anything exposed by changing the settings, but rather that the range of adjustability on the projector leaves lots of scope for making subtle changes.

One thing to note - on out-of-the-box settings, the action of the auto-iris was quite noticeable on scenes with transitions from very bright to dark - one could see the iris closing down and opening up quite clearly as "stepping" changes in the overall brightness level. Comer has this well under control with a tweak to the auto-iris setting in the service menu - once this was applied I didn't notice the performance of the iris in an obtrusive manner again.

It's also worth noting that when adjusting the brightness and contrast it was clear to me that the auto-iris was having an unexpected effect - I suspect that the firmware is set up to make adjustments simultaneously with the iris' state of opening or closing - and accordingly I would be inclined to experiment carefully with the brightness and contrast settings to find an optimum tradeoff bweteen the regular setings and the performance of the auto iris.

We also had the chance to watch dvd through a progscan dvd player via component - it was clear that there was a softness introduced by the dvd player, but the performance of the projector with this material as well as interlaced from dvd, and from Sky digital was a real eye opener. For someone who prefers the ease of use of a dvd player, this projector will not underperform.

Other than black level performance (which on the HS60 I thought was well into DLP territory.........) one of the biggest bugbears with LCD is Fixed Pattern Noise or Vertical Banding. Some regard these to be the same artifact - I consider them to be associated but slightly different. FPN (to me) is like a scene appearing to be viewed through a dirt window in a panning scene, most particularly with uniform light coloured areas of the image. VB is simlar, but also has the apearance of uniformly spaced stripes of a slightly lighter colour than the immediately surrounding area.

The HS60 I saw showed the faintest trace of FPN, but I noticed it once or twice only in what I would consider "torture" material for this particular artifact (lots of opportunities in AOTC.....) in a 4 hour period of viewing, and I defintely did not see the hallmark "stripes" of VB. Screendoor is really a function of seating distance - with 1280x720 projectors I don't think SDE becomes an issue unless you're planning to sit 1x screen width away form the image. With Comer's setup (between 1.5 and 2x screenwidth ? - Comer can confirm...) I didn't notice any SDE.

To my eyes, this projector is a keeper, full stop.


Oooops, almost forgot..................



.......Custard Creams.......... :eek:


Really.

Thanks Comer. :clap:


Sean.
 

homeagain

Active Member
:D Thanks for the laugh Ritz...great intro. I agree with all your observations other than SDE. I find it easily visible at 1.7 but disappears at 1.9 screen width. I prefer to reduce the image size rather than defocus.
This is with a 1.2 gain Ellie white screen, it was less of an issue with a grey screen ~ 0.8 gain approx. I'm switching to the Optoma Greywolf 1.8 grey screen and I'll post my findings.
Cheers, Rob. :thumbsup:
 

Comer

Active Member
It was a great night and thanks for allowing me to "show off" my new toy. The two boys really know their stuff and I now realise that although my image is very contrasty, it's at the expense of shadow detail. So that's something I'm going to have to work on.

A quick question to other members: if someone gave you custard creams in their house, would you not be grateful? I mean you wouldn't smash the plate (denby, by the way) against a wall, start kicking furniture and screaming "f:censored:ing CUSTARD CREAMS" over and over again. I dunno, is it just me or was that a strange reaction.

BTW guys, it was funny when I first noticed it, but could you please return my HS60 now...and the dog, you can keep the wife though.

:thumbsup: Conor
 

theritz

Active Member
@Comer,


Yip, in the shadows the detail is, as our good friend Yoda would say.

However, I'm determined to get theatertek and ffdshow working to emulate your setup, thanks for the email...........;)


Now, to get to the core of the issue, the plate is neither here nor there, Denby or Royal Worcester, the real matter of the thing is Custard Creams......... I mean, Really........ Custard Creams.

The dog is on his way back to you - he behaved far too much like you, sitting there on the couch licking his........ well, it rhymes with "stickey".

You missus on the other hand, is staying, having newly discovered with us that..................................

























The detail lies in the shadows.


Kind regards,


Sean.
 

Comer

Active Member
CooperUK said:
The question is, are you going to watercool it?

Yep, you betcha:thumbsup:

The hose I bought is too big to fit between the ribs of the front grill, so I've ordered one from my local hardware store...should have it by Friday. I'll soon be telling my wife, as I switch on the projector, "prepare to hear nothing!!!"

I think that I've got the image a lot closer to something I'm happy with. I'll post my setting on the HS60 tweak thread. Also, I got the projector playing R1 DVDs and Hidef DVD (24 fps) with absolutely no micro-stutter at all (projector will accept 48Hz on VGA input.) That's something I thought I'd never see in my life time...smooth playback of NTSC material on a fixed panel projector. People, you can have no idea just how excited I am about that.:thumbsup:

Theritz: I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive you for disrespecting my custard creams. Hey wait a minute, I'd forgotton, I also gave them HOME-MADE BISCUIT CAKE!...(that is, someone elses home)
 

theritz

Active Member
Yo ! Theatertek and ffdshow working after 3 years of messing (on and off.....)
Kudos to Comer.......


Mmmmmmm, Mrs Ritz would probably be happy about keeping the HS60, but would not be impressed bya menage-a-trois, I fear. Both will be on the train down to you in the morning.


Sean.
 

vexorg

Standard Member
What can I say that has not been said before... this projector produced one of the nicest pictures I have seen from a digital projector. It has all the usual lcd artifacts but the Sony handles them so well that I would not expect them to be distracting. They are there but You really need to look hard to see them.

Screen door its there - after all its an LCD, I would guess you could just make it out at 1.5 x screen width, 1.8 x screen except on a white menu on windows desktop. Not visible during movies.

VB - vertical banding - thin pencil like lines - had to be pointed out to me - so feint that they are unlikely to distract - like panel noise, only seen during pans.

Panel noise, like VB was there, only on bright panning scenes - not distracting.

Auto iris, I did notice it in action, Comer had adjusted the setting so it reacted slightly slower. A demo at factory setting was alarmingly distracting. I think Comer got the adjustment spot on.

Black or Grey - well grey obviously, but I was pleasantly surprised at the Dark grey rather than the milky grays I remember from earlier LCDS.

Picture brightness - I was expecting a dim projector, it seemed plenty bright to me, lots of contrast. Star fields looked like star fields

Watched some SD material, via component from a sky box plumbed through the dvd recorder. Older material looked blurry, but watchable, edge enhancement was very noticeable on lots of material. CSI Miami looked really good, maybe its from an original HD broadcast?... while not dvd quality quite watchable, would love to see it processed via HTPC or a nice scaler just to see whats possible... but I could not see myself watching much SD TV material though a projector.

Noise ... The HS60 was almost directly above my head for the 4 hours we were there, I did not hear the fans once, and it was hot by the time we were finished.

Custard creams - were of a high standard, not too sweet plenty of crunch without producing too many crumbs. I would guess that the custard centre helped hold the biscuit sandwich together producing a near crumb free bite without making the biscuit soggy.

Coffee - what can I say - it was hot and wet - and was probably a better companion to the custard creams than say tea, the bitter sweetness of the coffee gave the custard cream a contrasty and 3D like quality.

Would I buy one... yes.... will I buy one... well as I have the opportunity to demo some in the near future i will reserve judgment before committing however if bought blind this machine would not disappoint, its just does everything so well.

Again thanks to Comer for having us down and allowing us take over his cinema room for so long and play with the HS60 settings:)

V.

PS. Comer I seem to have mislaid some personal items.... have you come across a rubber chicken and a large sink plunger, if so could you post them to me, although I have a feeling TheRitz may have acquired then along with the PJ, dog and wife so adding a rubber chicken and sink plunger would not surprise me.
 

theritz

Active Member
Darn it...... thought I got away with the sink plunger and the rubber chicken (named her Hannah.....)...

I suppose you'll be wanting them back. You can collect them when you come to feast in wonderment on my startling new all-improved Custard Creams, "Mmmm Mmm, now that is a tasty biscuit", as a certain Mr. Jackson would say.

Returning to the HS60 momentarily, I thought the flesh tones in the custard creams were a little insipid - while they held the scenes together satisfactorily, I thought they were a bit more "Crawfords" than "Jacobs".

However, I agree with Vexorg's analysis.... contrasty indeed they were.



S.
 
K

Kramer

Guest
A quick question to other members: if someone gave you custard creams in their house, would you not be grateful? I mean you wouldn't smash the plate (denby, by the way) against a wall, start kicking furniture and screaming "f:censored:ing CUSTARD CREAMS" over and over again. I dunno, is it just me or was that a strange reaction.

Interesting one this............

Depends entirely on the quality of said Custard Creams. Offering poor quality creams eg. slightly damp, crumbly texture etc. could well result in such a reaction, especially from non-cultured "big city" dwellers.

I wouldn't expect such a reaction from well coultured "country folk" though, aka "Culchies".

Culchies like you & me appreciate a good (or not so good) Custard Cream. Maybe Vieneese Whirls would have gone down better with them from "de BIG smoke"?

:D

Comer, I'll be over to see you some day............I have just the right diameter hose for your HS60 & a new pump capable of 1200L/min :thumbsup: .

Nice review guys, a big :smashin: from me.

:smoke:
 

theritz

Active Member
Jeez Kramer, we thought you'd been abducted by aliens........ :D

Regards,

Sean.
 

Cantona

Standard Member
Sounds more like an episode of Father Ted than a pj review!:D
 

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