Combating crime: It is about time that law abiding citizens reclaim the streets.

damo_in_sale

Well-known Member
At around 17:30 today (27/08/2007), I was watching TV when I heard a loud bang outside. I live in a second floor apartment, and have a balcony overlooking our street. As a result I had a perfect view, albeit a little distant, of the four teenagers casually throwing stones at people houses and cars. My first instinct was to watch them for twenty seconds or so, as they continued to stroll down the street, picking up objects such as temporary road signs, and throwing them at hard working and decent folks property, or just into the middle of the road.
I then decided to get the camera out in an attempt to document some kind of evidence, but by the time I’d found the camera (a Canon Powershot A70), and set it to the right mode, the youths were beyond the effective range of the zoom lens.
I then decided to follow the youths, camera in tow, around 200 yards behind them, so they couldn’t see the camera. There were other people about too, so my walking down the street was unnoticed. I called my girlfriend at home to ask her to get the local police station number, which she did. On calling them they seemed less than interested, as you might imagine, despite the fact that I was a witness and had them in my sights. My girlfriend then turned up a couple of minutes later in her car, clearly concerned for my safety. The youths were clearly visible throwing objects into the road, making passing cars beep their horns and swerve dangerously. We drove past, a little slowly, and I managed to take only one decent photo, which clearly shows only two of the youths.

I am sick of this kind of thing. My car was damaged to the tune of around £600’s worth of repair charges, including keying below the fuel cap and what was clearly a blow to the both the front wing AND bonnet. I worked hard and saved up for several years so that I could afford and buy outright what remains my first car, and it’s a very modest one at that.
On speaking to other residents, it turns out that several of us have had our cars vandalised, and the accumulative cost is possibly several thousand pounds.

A few months ago, I awoke to hear a commotion outside. So I went to investigate and found our residents looking bewildered at several smashed plant pots surrounding the cars on the front car park. Fortunately no cars were hit, but there were a few near misses. As we don’t have any potted plants, they must have been stolen from properties on our street and thrown into our car park.

Only a few weeks ago, after returning from the pub with my friends, I heard banging outside and looked through the window to investigate. This was around midnight. What I saw was another four youths, strolling down the street, and one of them had a three to four foot wood saw and was slashing at decent folks fences (the elderly pensioners next door weren’t spared), garden trees etc. and were throwing objects at folks property.

Now, the frightening thing is that we live in a very decent neighbourhood. It is a suburb of Greater Manchester, nice and leafy with decent law abiding neighbours. What on earth must be happening in the less desirable areas?

I am a 31 year old male, born to a single mother and I grew up on a council estate in north Manchester. Both myself and my mother shared a three bed roomed council house with my Aunt, my Grandad, my Grandma, and my Great Grandma, who slept in the living room. I vowed from an early age to escape this kind of life by hard work and study. I have achieved this only to find that the standards of criminality in the neighbourhood I grew up in are now normal in decent and affluent areas of Greater Manchester, and the standards of criminality on the council estate were I grew up in are now frightening.
My Grandma lives in an old persons council bungalow, semi detached and with one bedroom (my Grandad died 12 years ago, my Grandma has been lonely ever since, and I have missed the man who was the greatest influence in my endeavour to better myself).
A couple of years ago some scum decided he would enter my Grandmas next door neighbours bungalow (a very elderly lady in her late 80’s I think), via removing rooftop tiles, cutting through the felt and entering through her ceiling. She locked herself in her bedroom, which thankfully the yob decided not to enter, only to hear anything of value being removed by the said scum. Naturally, the poor dear was absolutely terrified.

I think that it is time that law abiding and decent citizens reclaimed the streets, and refuse to accept that criminality is an inevitability of modern life. Yobs appear to have absolute control of the street, they can commit crimes costing decent, taxpaying and law abiding citizens thousands of pounds, and the police appear to do nothing. Well I for one am sick of it.

So, what can we, as decent and law abiding citizens do?
Although I am merely a tenant, I intend to lobby the residents of our apartments to purchase collectively a high quality camera, with a high quality zoom lens so that offenders can be photographed from afar, ensuring the safety of the photographer and allowing for decent shots. I also urge the numerable photographic experts on the avforums to help us out, and offer advice as to affordable equipment and how to use it.

Kind regards,

Damo
 

onefivenine

Well-known Member
It's the state of the nation I'm afraid.
That sort of ***** never used to happen when I was growing up in a council estate in Nothern Ireland. These days it's a free for all. Minorities have the upper hand, and law abiding citizens are the ones that get prosecuted if they try to protect themselves. Look after yourself mate - no one else will.


Please don't avoid the swear filter , thank you
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
These people are scum and have no respect for anything or anyone. I'm surprised that we haven't seen vigilante groups formed in some areas. It must only be a matter of time. That might get the Police a bit more interested.
 
That actually made me pretty angry just reading it. The absolute stupidity and fecklessness of some people should be punished more often.
 

MitsiTurbo

Active Member
That makes me angry reading it aswell. As a young person myself (23) I just cant understand the mentality of these yobs. All people my age are starting to be tarred with the same brush aswell!

Anyway, I think its a good idea what you are planning to do. But you should probably check the law first as no doubt it will 'infringe on there human rights' or something stupid. Im pretty sure with CCTV, if you do not have a sign up clearly saying that CCTV is recording then the video it captures cannot be used as evidence because 'the criminal did not know that they were being filmed' or some ***** like that. :mad:

Please don't avoid the swear filter , thank you
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
Im pretty sure with CCTV, if you do not have a sign up clearly saying that CCTV is recording then the video it captures cannot be used as evidence because 'the criminal did not know that they were being filmed' or some ***** like that. :mad:
I don't think that can be true even in the yob-friendly world of today. But in any case wouldn't you want to advertise the use of CCTV as a possible deterrent to the ones that can read?
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
Give it a short while, and we will see ordinary people starting to take matters into their own hands.

We're told to phone the police, but they're never interested or do not have the man power. If something something isn't done soon, the hardworking law abiding people of the country will simply move on.

The gf was talking about leaving the country only last night. :eek:
 

emporer

Banned
I'm sure the government will take the hard line with these scum - give them all a hug and a pat on the back and tell them everything will be alright, pay them 30 quid a week as long as they promise to behave, then take the guy with the camera to court for abusing their human rights.
 

wombar

Active Member
I think the best way to get some coppers to come out for incidences like this is to tell them you're going to take a baseball bat to their heads, so they better get down here pronto. They'll tell you that if you do that, you'll be arrested for assualt etc, but as long as it gets them moving I personally don't care. It's not like I'm going to actually give them a slap(because that would breach their precious human rights) but if it actually gets the police down that can only be a good thing.

I think if there's a threat of violence they're obliged to attend, but whether they try and arrest you for calling them out under false pretences is another question(so think carefully about using this tactic). Seriously, this casual violence/vandalism is getting ridiculous now. The govt either needs to ensure the police treat these as high priority or give the public the power to give these little sh*tes a good shoeing.

The people who do this think they're untouchable (and pretty much are). Once they've been taught there are consequences for keying someones car, I'll guarantee they'll think twice about doing it again.
 

Nimby

Distinguished Member
Modern youth crime started with Sir M Thatcher's removal of youth benefit.

I am firmly of the opinion that everybody should be armed with single shot pistols.

The ability to shoot perps would cut down on crime overnight.

The single shot would ensure an absence of bloodbaths and endless practice for accuracy.

Sorry, damo, but youth crime was awful as far back as the days of teddy boys. The local coach and bus operator had every tire slashed one night. Imagine the chaos that caused at a time when car ownership was extremely limited. He had several busses completely burnt out. Seat slashing was a party trick for every moron. Gang fights in the high streets involved knives, chains, sharpened combs, axes and machetes.

History records youth crime as far back as you care to look. Nothing is new. Only the present media reporting which feeds the copycat fool's desire to be big. Group reinforcement of any form of doubtful behaviour is usually a powerful force for evil.
 

Elrond

Member
I don't know if this will help but I had problems with youths where I used to live and a Police Community Support Officer came round for a talk.

From what I can remember of what she said it is against the law to take pictures of youths. However it isn't against the law if you take a picture of a very nice looking brick wall and the youths just happen to be standing in front of it!

So basically if you take a picture to the police remember to say you was taking a picture of, for example a nice brick wall, and I these youths doing ....... just happened to get in the picture!

This was a couple of years ago so if someone does try this approach I can not be held responsible!
 

Jenn

Distinguished Member
This reminds me of about 4 years ago when my husband and I rented our first flat. It wasn't in a posh area but by no mean a terrible one either.

After a year of living there in peace summer came and groups of youths started hanging around the shops below.
During a visit from my in laws, a small argument started between my mother in law and some of the youths (to the tone of "I would give you a good spank if I was your mum") and the "kids" ended up threatening the cars with projectiles.
I called the police and was told that they wouldn't come out as the youths hadn't done anything wrong despite me being quite scared (as my husband was outside trying to protect the car) and shaky. I asked if I had to wait for them to trash my car before the police would do anything and the answer was pretty much yes.

The next few days the same kids decided to kick footballs and stones at our windows throughout the day. Luckily it was double glazed and wasn't damaged.
My husband was concerned as I was alone at home during the day and the front door was only a flimsy wooden thing that could have been kicked in.
We moved out within a week.

It was an extreme decision but we couldn't watch the car all night and worry during the day that the idiots would come in or break a window etc.

The police's answer angered me and basically took away any confidence I may have had.
 

ilweran

Active Member
Start up a residents association, or something similar. People need to work together to show this behaviour is not acceptable.

Personally I think anyone caught damaging property should be made to work in the community - picking up litter, cleaning graffiti, fixing the damage if appropriate, whatever, and if they're children their parents should be made to do it as well. I can't help but feel that if people had to clean up the mess they made they'd be less inclined to make it in the first place. They might pick up some skills or find something they're good at that could get them into a job or training as well.

Of course the police would have to actually do something for this to work.
 

Kwman

Well-known Member
I live in quite a respectable area in London and like most areas in London there are always council estates nearby. These estates have trouble with their youths and what solution does the police offer ? Banning them from hanging out in their estates after dark so they all hang out and run around the streets nearby and terrorise us !

I've had my double glazing smashed, graffiti on my metal fencing, bin stolen, neighbours brick walls kicked down.
 

overkill

Distinguished Member
Modern youth crime started with Sir M Thatcher's removal of youth benefit.

I am firmly of the opinion that everybody should be armed with single shot pistols.

The ability to shoot perps would cut down on crime overnight.

The single shot would ensure an absence of bloodbaths and endless practice for accuracy.

Sorry, damo, but youth crime was awful as far back as the days of teddy boys. The local coach and bus operator had every tire slashed one night. Imagine the chaos that caused at a time when car ownership was extremely limited. He had several busses completely burnt out. Seat slashing was a party trick for every moron. Gang fights in the high streets involved knives, chains, sharpened combs, axes and machetes.

History records youth crime as far back as you care to look. Nothing is new. Only the present media reporting which feeds the copycat fool's desire to be big. Group reinforcement of any form of doubtful behaviour is usually a powerful force for evil.
Christ Nimby, some words of sense at last........

In the 70's I lived in 'Surbiton' the height of suburbia and yob free you'd think!? Wrong. Our local park in front of our house had two bandstands and nice little shed for storing tools. All were destroyed by vandals. Yes, two bandstands. Makes car damage, which also went on, seem a little piddling by comparison. By brothers car was broken into and his stereo removed, a prowler walked (literally) into our house while my mother was sleeping in a chair, luckily she's made of fierce stuff and her reaction shocked him into running away. Someone set light to the alley that ran behind our houses, my mates were attacked by a gang of skinheads, we then got into a running battle with them. If the press today got hold of that lot image the headlines - "Britain is collapsing, crime rife in the heart of middle England". :rolleyes:

When I got married we moved near to Aldershot and blimey, those Army kids are a pain in the ***. Our local shopping centre was vandalised on a constant basis, every house but ours and two others (we all had dogs) were broken into, and at the rear of the properties, the yobs vandalised our fences, garages etc virtually every day. This was in the 'crime free 80's'. In the 70's and 80's I used to regularly go to away matches all over the country, and tbh it was a case of taking your life in your hands at times. I seem to recall some fans including one who was shot in the face, did pay that ultimate penalty for supporting their team.

Let's go back into history as Nimby says............to the 1930's when street gangs ran parts of Britain's major cities, where being a Jew or whatever was dangerous as armed thugs would do more than 'rough you up'. In the 50's the same, the 60's the same, teds and mods smashing the crap out of Britain's seaside towns, each other, and anyone who got in the way. Parts of estates declared no go zones in the 70's and 80's, crime reaching record highs in the early 90's, it's all part of Britains rich crime tapestry.

No-ones saying it acceptable, and we'd all like to see an end to it, but the constant drivel about how it's all down to the 'latest govt' (it never was) or 'weak parents' etc, is getting boring. We have, as Nimby says, always had idiots who feed on the 'instant fame' of being a yob. He's also answered a question I've been asking, why all of sudden has this got worse in the media, despite figures showing certain types of violent crime are in decline?

Copycats, that's how. They see a crime splashed all over the news and milked by a cynical media till' the proverbials squeek and they want to get in on it.

Fame, it's the ultimate drug.........
 

CFC1

Member
There have been instances of people trying to stand up to these scumbags, and it is scary that as a consequence, we have had the mounting deaths of those "have-a-go-heroes". The scum don't care .. most of them are under 16 and in my own experience, when I once confronted a youth for throwing rubbish into my garden as he walked past, he asked me what I was gonna do about it! :eek: ... when I grabbed him in a fit of rage, he challenged me to hit him ... saying he'd have me up before the courts before I could blink! :confused:
Anti-social behaviour has grown at an alarming rate since I moved here to Northern Ireland 14 years ago. Even in our little village, the weekends are unbearable where I lived in the "High St", where cars would park up outside, music blaring until 4 or 5 in the morning. On saturday and Sunday mornings in particular, the place was a disgrace, as the clean up began of the empty food containers, bottles and s***e discarded by these scum. I lost count of the number of Sunday mornings I spent helping our pensioner neighbours to clean curry sauce or some other chinese "delicacy" off their windows.
At Halloween 3 years ago, a car parked up outside our house at approx 3 in the morning, music blaring, and the driver and his 6 pals got out and opened a large box of fireworks and put them on the bonnet and proceeded to set them off. Because we lived in a conservation area, we were not permitted to have double glazing and the noise was unbearable. Mrs CFC went down and tried to reason with them on account of our young boys being wakened... and they threw a beer bottle at her! In the end, we were forced to sell up and build a new house out of the town, and our lives have improved immeasurably, but it's still going on there.

We called the police on several other occasions, but due to our so-called "sensitive location", they refused to come out, on safety grounds, as they didn't have the sufficient manpower to do a job. It used to be the case that because of unwanted/inneffective policing, that the locals would "take care" of troublesome individuals, but that seems to have died out. Occasionally, you hear of the frighteners being put on someone, who would behave for a while, but they soon go back to their former ways once the effect wears off or their courage returns.

Alarmingly, over the last couple of years, they have started making calls to the emergency services, who turn up at the scene only to be ambushed, stoned, pulled out of the vehicles and beaten,, and the vehicles set on fire!

I can't see the general situation improving, TBH! :mad:

Sorry... rant over! :mad:
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
At uni down South now, so its a crime-free life :)grin:), but back in family home in Blackley, Manchester when we first moved there 5 years ago there were always kids around (they all went to the other school :p). Now nothing happens in the area. But it was only after residents got onto the police's back and got them to send patrol cars around the estate. Couple of months of sirens every other night but now its quite alright. I am sure there is a point here somewhere...
 

Kwman

Well-known Member
I can't understand why some people are blaming the media. They are highlighting this problem so its a good thing !

So its been going on for a long time does that mean we have to accept it ?
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
From what I can remember of what she said it is against the law to take pictures of youths.
She was wrong, it isn't. The only possible exception I can think of is if you were to take photos of/in a secure government/military installation - which isn't likely in this context.

That doesn't mean it is a good idea to antagonise people by poking a camera in their faces of course.
 

Gadget Daddy

Well-known Member
get as many male residents of your flats to agree to beat the living ***** out of them with baseball bats next time they appear or get yourself an air rifle

bastards
Pete
 
P

PrettyGreen

Guest
That mouthpiece Stephen Nolan dedicated the first part of his phone-in programme this morning on BBC Raydeeo Elster to a "tar and feathering" in a Belfast estate. After being tarred and feathered (literally), the victim had a sign placed round his neck saying "I am a drug dealing scumbag". Nolan invited people to phone in with their opinions on this and had a "text poll" on whether or not the public agreed with this type of summary justice. The overwhelming majority of listeners who rang in and/or voted agreed with it. And all that fatmouth did the whole time was to express disgust at both what happened and the people that supported it. It's bleeding-heart's like him and the liberal, cow-towing BBC that has the country the way it is.

Here's a link to the story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6966493.stm
 

Nimby

Distinguished Member
The courts have completely failed the public while taking care of the criminal's every need. How can a criminal be protected from an innocent resident when the toe-rag breaks in? You stand to be terrorised, murdered, raped or robbed yet you cannot protect yourself in case the thug gets a splinter in his little finger! The justice of madness. The burglars are fair game in my book. Once across that threshold uninvited it's war! Anything goes. And I do mean anything to protect yourself or your family. The judge who gave burglars rights should be in the European Court of Human Rights. In the dock! Or in a padded cell.

National politicians, councilors, magistrates, news media persons and all police officers of every rank should be made to live in rough areas all of their working lives. It should be made a condition of holding their office. It might not reduce crime but it would be much more fun for the rest of us listening to them whine endlessly.

You get the criminals you deserve. If you break the law in other ways you cannot point the finger at others. Speeding, use of the telephone while driving, drink driving, drug abuse etc. Reward those least worthy of success and you deliver the same distorted message. Do as I say. Not do as I do. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. (or words to that effect)
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
That mouthpiece Stephen Nolan dedicated the first part of his phone-in programme this morning on BBC Raydeeo Elster to a "tar and feathering" in a Belfast estate. After being tarred and feathered (literally), the victim had a sign placed round his neck saying "I am a drug dealing scumbag". Nolan invited people to phone in with their opinions on this and had a "text poll" on whether or not the public agreed with this type of summary justice. The overwhelming majority of listeners who rang in and/or voted agreed with it. And all that fatmouth did the whole time was to express disgust at both what happened and the people that supported it. It's bleeding-heart's like him and the liberal, cow-towing BBC that has the country the way it is.
Well I guess people who support this kind of action are always going to be more vocal than those who don't. And it is the job of radio stations to provoke controversy to make their product more marketable.

I have absolutely no sympathy for this person if he really was a drug dealer, and it should send a warning to other similar low lifes in that area. But of course there are dangers with this type of justice, particularly with respect to mistaken identity. The only real value in this is to highlight the need for effective, official measures to be put in place.

I don't hold out much hope of that happening though. I bet that the Police put more effort into tracking down the people who did this than they put into ridding the streets of drug dealers.
 

Steven

Senior Moderator
Sorry, damo, but youth crime was awful as far back as the days of teddy boys. The local coach and bus operator had every tire slashed one night. Imagine the chaos that caused at a time when car ownership was extremely limited. He had several busses completely burnt out. Seat slashing was a party trick for every moron. Gang fights in the high streets involved knives, chains, sharpened combs, axes and machetes.

History records youth crime as far back as you care to look. Nothing is new. Only the present media reporting which feeds the copycat fool's desire to be big. Group reinforcement of any form of doubtful behaviour is usually a powerful force for evil.
Rubbish. I am forever informed of the good old days before I was born where there was no crime, everyone greeted everyone else with a polite nod and a "Sir" or "Ma'am" and a little milk float delivered 2 pints every morning

;) :D
 

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