Colour Separation Projection - Next Gen Cinema 3D?

Drongo

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A few of you may have read comments; where I have said that I love 3D on my smallish tv at home; but often find 3D at the cinema rather anaemic. The images lack solidity and the illusion of 3D is not always convincing.

I have speculated that this may be to do with the brightness of the projected image. Although; cinema projectors are capable of very high light output, when you average the brightness over a very large screen, the amount of light per unit area is probably less than can be achieved on a 3D tv.

I have just heard about a new technique for projecting 3D images at the cinema. It is called Colour Separation Projection. The essential difference, as I understand it, is that two projectors are used to overlay both left and right eye images. Because both left and right eye images are projected at the same time and not alternated; you end up with a substantially brighter image than with conventional cinema 3D. Also; the stereoscopic effect is created by using 3D glasses that filter different wavelengths of light in each eye. Obviously; the projected image of each projector consists of slightly different wavelengths of light. Separating the left and right eye images this way; results in much less light loss than you get using conventional Polarised glasses.

The very brief clip below; shows Christie Laser Projectors providing the muscle for the 3D Colour Separation film showing. Whether Colour Separation Projection would work as well (if at all) with standard cinema projectors I don't know.



I'm not sure how long it will take to get this technology into my local fleapit (if ever!) but this looks really promising for those cinema users who enjoy 3D.
 
I'm not sure how long it will take to get this technology into my local fleapit (if ever!) but this looks really promising for those cinema users who enjoy 3D.
My guess.....never. Why would cinema owners want to install a second PJ into every 3D screen or more importantly how many could afford to?

Anyway as nobody told you 3D is dead ;)
 
My guess.....never. Why would cinema owners want to install a second PJ into every 3D screen or more importantly how many could afford to?

When you say 'never'; if you're referring to my local fleapit; I'm sure that you're right.

But if you mean 'never' with regard to all cinemas; I think that you are wrong. Sure; most will probably ignore this technology; but some premium cinema's will go for it. As to why; to give them a competitive edge; for the same reason that some cinemas have installed Imax Digital screens and Dolby Atmos. It's probably the cinema's that have gone Imax 3D and/or Atmos that can and will afford it.

Anyway as nobody told you 3D is dead ;)

3D dead? I realise your comment was made tongue in cheek... :)

Although not has healthy as it was a few years ago; there is still a lot of life left in theatrical 3D. Just look at most of this years blockbuster releases.
 
3D dead? I realise your comment was made tongue in cheek... :)

Although not has healthy as it was a few years ago; there is still a lot of life left in theatrical 3D. Just look at most of this years blockbuster releases.

Yes mate definitely tongue in cheek. I love a good 3D movie :smashin:
 
Reading a bit more; it looks as if it is Dolby who developed the Colour Separation technique and Christie who have developed the laser projector. There's a bit more about Colour Separation Projection - or 6P as Christie call it HERE

A few quotes:

Christie’s latest laser projection technology, using 6 specific primary colours rather than filtered or polarised broad-spectrum white light, brings dramatically improved 3D efficiency to projection systems, regardless of the size of screen in premium movie theatres,” added Shaw. “We believe that this is the future of 3D cinema projection, that it is right around the corner, and that it will be a key element in boosting 3D box office revenues around the world.

Having had the opportunity to witness an early 6P laser demo at Christie’s worldwide centre for engineering, research and development in Canada, I can confidently state that this is an exciting and important innovation in 3D cinema,” said Matt Cowan, co-founder & senior technical advisor at Entertainment Technology Consultants.
 
They can colour seperate as much as they want, still have to wear those stupid glasses.
 
They can colour seperate as much as they want, still have to wear those stupid glasses.

Yes; that is sadly true.

It's also a shame that that to listen to music from a Ipod/Mp3 player/phone properly; you have to clamp a pair of small speakers to your ears or put even smaller speakers into your ears - surely that's more hassle and a lot sillier than wearing glasses? Yet somehow; millions of people seem to cope with doing that.
 
Yes; that is sadly true.

It's also a shame that that to listen to music from a Ipod/Mp3 player/phone properly; you have to clamp a pair of small speakers to your ears or put even smaller speakers into your ears - surely that's more hassle and a lot sillier than wearing glasses? Yet somehow; millions of people seem to cope with doing that.
The more accurate analogy is having to wear a hearing aid to listen to some gimmicky sound when you have perfectly good hearing. Also imagine how much of a hassle it would be if you had to wear headphones because your hearing wasn't very good and then have to wear a second pair of headphones over those to listen to an extra dimension of music.
 
Er, no the more accurate analogy is the use of headphones as I described. If you don't want to listen to music on a portable device you don't have to wear headphones and if you don't want to watch 3D you don't have to wear 3D glasses. Simple as that. If you want to listen to music on a portable device; then you have to wear headphones; likewise with 3D viewing and 3D glasses.

It is a matter of choice; you take it or leave it.

I don't understand why you say:

having to wear a hearing aid to listen to some gimmicky sound when you have perfectly good hearing.

Surely if you regarded it as 'gimmicky sound' you wouldn't be listening to it and therefore you wouldn't be moaning about it? You don't have to do anything!

I've never heard anyone moan about the fact that they have to wear headphones. For some reason; some folk whinge and moan about 3D glasses. I don't understand why. If you don't want to wear them; then don't and just stick to 2D.
 
Er, no the more accurate analogy is the use of headphones as I described. If you don't want to listen to music on a portable device you don't have to wear headphones and if you don't want to watch 3D you don't have to wear 3D glasses. Simple as that. If you want to listen to music on a portable device; then you have to wear headphones; likewise with 3D viewing and 3D glasses.

It is a matter of choice; you take it or leave it.

I don't understand why you say:



Surely if you regarded it as 'gimmicky sound' you wouldn't be listening to it and therefore you wouldn't be moaning about it? You don't have to do anything!

I've never heard anyone moan about the fact that they have to wear headphones. For some reason; some folk whinge and moan about 3D glasses. I don't understand why. If you don't want to wear them; then don't and just stick to 2D.
The studios don't want people to have choice, they'd rather have everyone watching 3D because they can charge more and it's harder to pirate 3D films. You can see what studios thought about choice when they were really pushing 3D a couple of years back where the 2D screening was at awkward times and shown for shorter periods at the cinema. I wanted to watch Dredd in 2D at the cinema, for example, but it was shown in 3D only. If 3D had taken off there wouldn't have been any choice. As it happens people voted with their feet as those opting to watch the 3D variety began falling year on year. The studios have had to reverse their plans to reduce choice as more people are opting to watch 2D.
 
The studios don't want people to have choice, they'd rather have everyone watching 3D because they can charge more and it's harder to pirate 3D films. You can see what studios thought about choice when they were really pushing 3D a couple of years back where the 2D screening was at awkward times and shown for shorter periods at the cinema. I wanted to watch Dredd in 2D at the cinema, for example, but it was shown in 3D only. If 3D had taken off there wouldn't have been any choice. As it happens people voted with their feet as those opting to watch the 3D variety began falling year on year. The studios have had to reverse their plans to reduce choice as more people are opting to watch 2D.



I'm not sure that is entirely correct. Sure that studios want the additional revenue stream of 3D; no doubt about that at all. But if they really wanted to deny people choice; they simply would not release any 2D films. They would just make 3D prints (if the word 'print' is the right one in these digital days...) only available for distribution.

I suspect it is the distribution companies and possibly the cinema chains who choose what versions of what films are available at any particular cinema at any given time. If they are denying you choice; then that's where your anger should be directed. If you wanted to watch a film in 2D and it was only available in 3D that that is wrong and you have every right to be upset. There should be a choice of 2D and 3D available to people in all cinemas. I know that there are a minority of people who do not perceive the world in stereoscopic vision and 3D just does not work for them. Those people should not be penalised for wanting to watch 2D.

I enjoy 3D very much at home; less so at the cinema where I feel the 3D effect is reduced. I hope that Colour Separation Projection is way of improving the quality of cinematic 3D for those who enjoy 3D viewing. But I also hope that 2D is always available at all cinemas for those that want it.
 
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I'm still slightly baffled by this "colour separation" approach - it sounds as though they're messing about with the colours on each eye. This brings back memories of that rubbish anaglyph 3D stuff!
 
I'm still slightly baffled by this "colour separation" approach - it sounds as though they're messing about with the colours on each eye. This brings back memories of that rubbish anaglyph 3D stuff!

If you see the glasses; used they are nothing like Anaglyph glasses.

There's some info re Colour Separation HERE

Note; they don't mention 'Colour Separtation' but rather wavelength multiplex visualization which I believe is exactly the same thing.

I'm pretty sure no one in their right mind would suggest going back to a form of Anaglyph 3D - it would be commercial suicide!
 
Standard polarisation based 3D (RealD) at the cinema does not alternate between L and R images. Both images are projected together. It's only active shutter systems that have to alternate the images. It is the polarised lenses that separate them out for the correct eye. The light loss is partly down to the fact that polarising filters reduce light levels.
 
Standard polarisation based 3D (RealD) at the cinema does not alternate between L and R images. Both images are projected together. It's only active shutter systems that have to alternate the images. It is the polarised lenses that separate them out for the correct eye. The light loss is partly down to the fact that polarising filters reduce light levels.


Hi

I may have phrased things poorly in my comments above - apologies if that is the case. This may explain things more clearly:

Christie also claims the new system is more comfortable to watch because it has got rid of the polarisation used in 99% of 3D cinema systems.

The old technique involved using a single projector to beam two rapidly alternating video streams, each captured at a slightly different perspective to the action.

Polarisation filters in the 3D glasses worn by the viewer then separated the streams so that each eye saw a different one, delivering a sense of depth.

But a side-effect of this method was that the film appeared darker than it would do in 2D.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

And another quote from a separate article:

Some 3D-capable projectors are actually comprised of two projectors - one for the left-eye's image and one for the right-eye's image. But many 3D projectors consist of a single projector running at a higher refresh speed, and alternately showing a frame for the left eye (with the polarization for the left lens on the polarized glasses) and a frame for the right eye (with the polarization for the right lens on the polarized glasses). Some very high-resolution single projectors can also display the left and right images together (i.e. no need to alternate between them).

CLICK

Cheers.
 
Bump. I don't know how your idea isnt industry standard. I feel all the guys doing 3D post production are fudgetards and dont know how to get images to pop. my sony bravia uses polarization for inactive lens no battery. When you look thru lens you get a diamond plate effect looking thru glass doors and the colors change from blue yellow hues. So color separation is used like old 3d anaglyph tech. I thought reald was 192fps frames per second.

Anyways. I would film with yellow lights closer to to camera lens and blue lights in the background

but i dont know how samsung 3d works in comparison to sony format
Don't confuse the format with the display technology - they're usually decoupled and typically not dependent on each other.

Your Sony is using passive (i.e. polarised) lenses. You'll see patterns on laminated glass because the laminated layers polarise light in different planes (typically in a criss-cross pattern but not always). Wear a pair of polarised sunglasses and you see the same effect. It's nothing to do with 3D formats or colour separation tbh.
 
you are wrong in than the polarization of the lens cause color abberations. Blue and yellow when you rotate the lens check to see you are wrong! do you have a youtube channel with any 3d
Sigh. Nevermind. I could try to explain it to you with a lengthy post but I feel I'd be wasting my time.
 
Maybe you should apply at looking glass hologram see my other post

That's an interesting video. Did I see someone holding a Viewmaster to their eyes in it? :D

There have been a few 'hologram' type systems developed in recent years. Here's another:



And another:



But I'm not currently sure of their relevance to Cinema 3D. At the moment the cinema industry is struggling for survival and 3D is a niche of that. So it is incredibly unlikely that there will be a further development of 3D cinema projection.

Reviving this thread seems like examing some ancient relic of times long past. This rave from the grave thread should have been left dead and buried. It's irrelevant to the here and now.
 

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