Closing my Fire station

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by SteveCritten, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. SteveCritten

    SteveCritten
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    10,983
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Caistor Lincs
    Ratings:
    +4,685
    Just been told our Fire station is closing on 1st April, not losing my job but I just think its sad not just for us but for the public we serve. :(
     
  2. Wardy257

    Wardy257
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,393
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Ratings:
    +779
    It's a sign of the times, just look at all the closed military camps around the country and think of the people that used to work and live on them.
     
  3. Some Bloke

    Some Bloke
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,124
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Ratings:
    +571
    Very sad to hear.
    Anything to save money and potentially put the public at risk.

    On the upside, maybe a local strip joint can use the pole.
     
  4. blue max

    blue max
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    12,946
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4,315
    April the 1st? Got to be a joke!
    But if serious, presumably they feel it is covered by another area. Or obviously it could leave a gap in the service.
    Are house fires less common these days?
    Not being flippant - not a laughing matter anyone losing their job. Hope you get fixed up soon.
     
  5. IronGiant

    IronGiant
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    66,440
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    .
    Ratings:
    +46,644
    He said in his first post he wasn't losing his job...
     
  6. blue max

    blue max
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    12,946
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4,315
    It's late IG. Don't you ever wane....

    :)

    But it must have an impact of some sort.
     
  7. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,036
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +10,900
    In London it will be impossible to meet response times in some places because so many stations are being closed.
     
  8. aVdub

    aVdub
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9,083
    Products Owned:
    9
    Products Wanted:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    63°34'41.1"N 83°51'49.4"E
    Ratings:
    +12,227
    And that doesn't include the delays caused by those that don't keep the way clear at some stations.
     
  9. True Romance

    True Romance
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    6,965
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Ratings:
    +3,031
    After having a major house fire 3 year ago I was extremely impressed with the fire brigade response, not only in time but also with the way they dealt with the fire. They have the utmost respect from me now :thumbsup: Fortunately our local station is only a few miles away, if they had come from much further afield I have no doubt next door would have also gone up in flames :eek:. How they can keep closing stations down and think they can still offer the same level of service is beyond me?:confused:
     
  10. SteveCritten

    SteveCritten
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    10,983
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Caistor Lincs
    Ratings:
    +4,685
    I didn't explain it fully, yes my station is closing and we are losing other engines in our particular service. Even though I am keeping my job 76 positions are being lost throughout out the Humberside service.

    Blue Max, yes according to the statistics we attend less fires but even though the statistics are somewhat manipulated there are still more people dying in fires, despite anomalies such as if somebody is pulled from a fire alive but later dies in hospital that is not classed as a fire death.
     
  11. blue max

    blue max
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    12,946
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4,315
    No, it wasn't you, it was me (never thought I'd use that line!). :)

    That's the thing with statistics, they can be twisted to suit almost any point.

    Presumably they pension people off early. And end up having to employ and train new people when they go too far. Thus negating all the advantages. Creative accounting and a quick-fix, but long-term problem.
     
  12. SteveCritten

    SteveCritten
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    10,983
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Caistor Lincs
    Ratings:
    +4,685
    No, under our pension contract they can't legally pension off early. The savings have to be in place over the next 3 years and they are hoping the 76 posts can be lost with natural wastage ie people reaching normal retirement and people leaving. Our service hasn't actually recruited for nearly 8 years now, so with another 3 years that will be 11 years without a recruit in wholetime. What they tend to do is move people over from the retained side on temporary contracts as it's cheaper.
     
  13. blue max

    blue max
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    12,946
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4,315
    Thanks for the explanation. Guess they have had plenty of time to assess the implications of their actions and are confident it is not going to lead to a problem. You might even draw the concluson that it may have been overstaffed before. At least over three years, it can be monitored.
     
  14. SteveCritten

    SteveCritten
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    10,983
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Caistor Lincs
    Ratings:
    +4,685
    The actual engines are going on 1st April so we will be able to see the impact sooner, the spare (we have actually been running short for a while) will be redeployed to other areas. It just annoys me that Police Chiefs are against the cuts and vociferously defend the fact they need more officers yet Fire Chiefs seem to relish in how much they can cut. Then they lie with made up statistics to justify it.
     
  15. IronGiant

    IronGiant
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    66,440
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    .
    Ratings:
    +46,644
    I suppose it is similar to closing all the local Police stations and having the officers deployed in the area instead. Is that what they will do, have Fire Engines throughout the region doing routine work ready to attend a local incident as required, or will or the Engines be stationed centrally? If the latter how will they maintain reasonable response times?

    If you know the answer that is :)
     
  16. blue max

    blue max
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    12,946
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4,315
    What like fire crews on a window cleaning round - just ready to drop everything in the event of a call-out :)
     
  17. Wardy257

    Wardy257
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,393
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Ratings:
    +779
    At least they will have buckets and ladders to hand.
     
  18. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,036
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +10,900
    I think you should explain that remark.
     
  19. blue max

    blue max
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    12,946
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4,315
    How do you mean? It was a joke following on from the post above it. Not funny?
     
  20. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,036
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +10,900
    No.
     
  21. SteveCritten

    SteveCritten
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    10,983
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Caistor Lincs
    Ratings:
    +4,685
    In the town I work in Grimsby/Cleethorpes we had 2 wholetime stations with 2 engines at each and 2 retained stations with 1 pump at each, ie they have other jobs and attend when needed. This is changing to one wholetime station (the one most central) with 3 pumps. Will this effect attendance times....yes and no. As has been intimated earlier figures can be manipulated to suit. Up until 2002 there was a national attendance time for a house fire with persons reported of 2 pumps in 5 minutes and 1 pump in 8 (in high risk areas). Now since 2002 each fire service can determine their own attendance times and also change what is high and low risk. The risk factor used to be determine by historical numbers of fires in that area. To me every house has the same risk of fire it is the people inside and how safety conscious they are and whether they smoke or drink. Edited as I hadn't finished haha. Now in our area that attendance time has changed to eight minutes so the chief says "we are losing a pump but we can still meet the times so your service is not affected" but if anybody has seen the video of a room fire reaching flashover point those extra minutes do count.

    I presumed he was referring to how the retained system is run.
     
  22. IronGiant

    IronGiant
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    66,440
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    .
    Ratings:
    +46,644
    Thanks Steve.
     
  23. SteveCritten

    SteveCritten
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    10,983
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Caistor Lincs
    Ratings:
    +4,685
    Edited IG sorry got distracted.
     
  24. blue max

    blue max
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    12,946
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4,315
    Indeed Steve. Just a ludicrous image which came to mind to illustrate the idea...

    Given the number of people fiddling their gas meters, I think they probably need to rethink. Although maybe there is nothing left to put out when that happens!
     
  25. Wardy257

    Wardy257
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,393
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Ratings:
    +779
    This is the way it going with all the government departments now. I saw similar logic when I was in the RAF. Someone would workout how many engineers of each specialisation you would need to fix the aircraft and that is what you got.

    The problem is aircraft don't break as per the averages and they don't break based on what specialist engineers are sat twiddling their thumbs. So you could have 5 aircraft broken with avionics issues and only enough specialists to fix 2 at a time while the other specialist engineers are sat drinking tea.
     
  26. blue max

    blue max
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    12,946
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4,315
    But you can't gear up to have enough specialists for every plane. Or the would be a lot of tea drunk!

    OK, if it is not mission critical and cost is no object.
     
  27. Wardy257

    Wardy257
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,393
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Ratings:
    +779
    Define mission critical? If aircrew continually fly less hours than they need then they are not ready to do their primary job. You can not catch up years of underflying in a few weeks before a war starts because it is then deemed critical.

    Its the same with the fire stations, they cant just drive faster to certain fires to make up for lost stations.
     
  28. blue max

    blue max
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    12,946
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4,315
    Well, what are the odds of all aircraft failing with the same fault at the same moment? Two specialists per 5 planes doesn't seem too unreasonable in that example.
    There will always be an occasion at some point in time, when all fire appliances are out and there is no further capacity. No matter how many you have. So you have to base it on expectations.

    Neither is my industry of course, so I don't know. :)
     
  29. Wardy257

    Wardy257
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,393
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Ratings:
    +779
    It depends on the aircraft, just like it would depend on the fire. You can not manage everything using averages and spreadsheets.

    The problem now is there is no 'fudge factor', if you plan to fail, you fail to plan.
     
  30. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,036
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +10,900
    Agreed, people use the word 'average' without any idea. For example, what is the difference between the mean value and the median value?
    Similarly using the term 'odds'. If it's anything other than losing money on a greyhound don't mention it.
     

Share This Page

Loading...