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Clock 2 from Net-Audio?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by PGL, Mar 14, 2003.

  1. PGL

    PGL
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    Looking to upgrade my Marantz CD52 CD player and considering the Mini Clock and PSU bundle from www.net-audio.co.uk

    Anyone used these before and do you think it's a worthwhile upgrade?

    Cheers in advance.:cool:
     
  2. PGL

    PGL
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    Just ordered the mini clock for now. Will let you know how it turns out.
    :hiya:
     
  3. michaelab

    michaelab
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    Hadn't heard about those guys until now - their "shielded" PCB looks bogus to me, IMO it's more to prevent people ripping off their circuit than anything else - I'd also be very surprised if their circuit is original ;) . Trichord and Audiocom make the best clock upgrades and were also the ones who designed the circuit(s) that everyone else now just copies.

    I fitted the Trichord Clock 3 upgrade and digital output board to my Marantz CD50SE recently. The improvement was substantial.

    I documented the install - see here.

    Michael.
     
  4. NET Audio

    NET Audio
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    Hi Chaps

    This is in not in anyway a criticism of any other manufacturers products, but is an accurate description from my sphere of knowledge of other clocks which are on the market.

    To cover the Trichord design first, you stated that my clock was probably not original, I presume you were implying that their design was original. Firstly the Trichord is a Pierce crystal oscillator, originally designed by George Washington Pierce many years ago using a valve and a Quartz crystal as can be seen in this link http://hcs.harvard.edu/~w1af/pierce.html These days transistors, IC amplifiers or logic buffers/inverters are used as the basis of a Pierce oscillator as technology has advanced since Pierce originally (<got that?) invented that particular oscillator.

    Secondly Trichord clock (Pierce oscillator) on the Clock 2, Clock 3 or Digital output board is not their original variation of a Pierce oscillator but is in fact an crystal oscillator module which is manufactured for Trichord by as far as I know a company called International Quartz Devices (IQD) who I think now belong to the C-MAC group. This is an of the shelf clock module, but tuned to oscillate at the specified frequencies for CD players i.e. 11.2896, 16.944 MHz etc by IQD and it also has a better initial frequency tolerance than standard - Trichord specify 5ppm as far as I am aware and also have their name printed on. These can be found here http://www.cmac.com/mt/databook/oscillators/leaded/spxo/pdf/iqxo22.pdf

    This is then placed on a circuit board of their design along with a regulator from a manufacturer such as Linear Technology to power the clock and output buffer which is manufactured by Harris Semiconductor. These parts are combined together to produce a Clock 2, the Clock 3 is a variation on this theme. This is an effective design, but not what I would describe as original. The concept of producing clock modules as upgrades for CD players may be original, but not the clock itself as it is not an original Trichord design, but a bought in part.

    With Audiocom, they use a different oscillator, a discrete transistor series resonant design, which is their own work, but is probably based on a crystal oscillator design decades old as I don't know of any truly original Crystal oscillator types which have been invented recently. Their design will probably be a variation on a theme, but fine tuned to give high performance, but equally unoriginal as it was probably invented long ago, but their design is original to them, much as a Ford Focus is not original as the car was invented over 100 years ago, but the Focus is a original variation on an old theme, but not original in the true sense.

    As for mine, not original either, but a high performance design (not original invention, but design) based on an oscillator type invented years ago but using technical skill to get the jitter so low that I have a problem measuring it. The screened can is there for two reasons, one to stop RF interference from effecting the clocks performance, and two, to stop :nono: anyone copying anything which may be a good idea. You talk about people ripping off circuits like you frown upon anyone who tries to keep their ideas secret. It's not a bad thing to do in a competitive market, Formula One is a good indicator of that. Perhaps someone who has one would like to run one with and without the shield.

    I and I think the other clock designers design better performance products than standard clocks, but don't produce truly original designs as the crystal clock oscillator has been around well before any of these companies existed (and well before CD players existed too) and all the circuits will be traceable back to someone else who came up with the original circuit such as Pierce.

    In that sense very little is original, power amp, cars, planes, houses etc are not original as they have been done before, but the designer puts time and effort into his work to make his design, or variation of a past design, better than the other persons, but they are not original. CD was original to Sony/Philips but all other CD players from Alba to Mark Levinson were variations on the original idea, but not original themselves. The way it is done by different designers varies or all CD players would sound the same. If variation A performs better than variation B, that is because variation A may have been designed by a more skilful designer who squeezed more performance out their product using skill and knowledge, but none of these clocks are original.

    You wrote "Hadn't heard about those guys until now - their "shielded" PCB looks bogus to me, IMO it's more to prevent people ripping off their circuit than anything else - I'd also be very surprised if their circuit is original . Trichord and Audiocom make the best clock upgrades and were also the ones who designed the circuit(s) that everyone else now just copies."

    :lesson:No, Pierce, Butler etc were the ones who designed the circuits who everyone just copies. Perhaps Trichord don't copy, they just buy them in. :confused:

    David Pritchard

    NET Audio :smashin:
     
  5. michaelab

    michaelab
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    Hi David,

    Nice to have you on the forum :) Perhaps what I said was a little harsh, or open to misinterpretation :blush: I wasn't suggesting that Trichord or Audiocom 'invented' the crystal occilator, but AFAIK they, along with LC Audio were the first to make 3rd party CD player clock upgrades. I also happen to know that there's been a fair bit of ripping off of other people's ideas and designs in this small market. Hence my comments.

    I don't know how long you guys have been in the clock upgrade business but I hadn't heard of you until now - I don't know anything about your stuff and haven't heard any comments of people who've installed them. Your prices certainly seem very competetive though.

    Michael.
     
  6. PGL

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    Just for the record (and for you David) I received my clock today but haven't fitted it yet. As it was a bit of a stealth buy (don't tell the Mrs;) ), it'll have to be a stealth fit!! Good job she works nights.

    Will let you know how I get on. As Michael said, Davids prices are very competitive and I can only thank my mate (the Web Ferret!) for spotting them.

    Welcome to the forum David - seems like you know your stuff!

    :smashin:
     
  7. NET Audio

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    As there has been no further action on this thread I thought you may be interested (gives me an excuse to shamelessly plug my clocks :rolleyes: ) in a very detailed assessment from a recent customer. The MiniClock is now in MK2 form and the comments can be viewed here http://www.net-audio.co.uk/custcomm.html
     
  8. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    David.

    You are most welcome here.
    This is the sort of information we (or at least some of us) like to see and read about from hitherto "lesser known quarters" (i hope you do not take offence to this)

    I will be looking very closely at your products (having played with Trichords over the years) at a more opportune moment.


    Steve.
     
  9. kopite

    kopite
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    Gonna sound stoopid but what doe sthe clock do?
     
  10. michaelab

    michaelab
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