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Climate change, do we give a fudge?

Do we care ?

  • Greta thunberg , yup the earth is dying you morons .

    Votes: 56 65.9%
  • Al Gore , I can make a living as the earth is dying , morons.

    Votes: 8 9.4%
  • Trump , fudge the earth , I'm alright Jack , as the we continue to build sh*te

    Votes: 7 8.2%
  • Boris , I'm with Trump, or whatever ...comes next .

    Votes: 5 5.9%
  • Putin , we make the rules , we own all

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • China , yeah right mate , bring it on.

    Votes: 8 9.4%

  • Total voters
    85

richp007

Distinguished Member
The consensus here seems to be that it's preparing for a case of "when" not "if". Which in turn shows that the sentiment from most appears to be that we're too late to do anything to reverse what's happening (well not that a "reversal" is feasible anyway).

For me even trying to slow it down is going to be too little too late. What's gonna happen is inevitable now, and I fear that most will remain too nonchalant over the effects.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
Maybe a good start would be removing VAT from Energy saving materials,not increasing it :confused:
But even that has its problems. There was a report last week showing how hundreds of extra people had died during the last heatwave simply due to their houses being too well insulated. It cited one of those new 'Eco' buildings in London that are so well insulated that during hot weather all the residents now have to have air-conditioners on all the time. :D
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
China is just one issue. A large amount of the planet is in poverty. Gradually they will become industrialised and want the same things we have, heating, air conditioning, cars, holidays, electricity, big TVs whatever.

Do we say they can't have them because of "the planet" while we have them?
 

IronGiant

Moderator
I will be getting loft insulation done this year so a consideration, hit 35C this year.
Insulation works both ways ;) It can keep heat out, just as well as keeping it in. Insulating your loft can help keep the heat in the loft in the summer rather than it cooking the house, especially in a bungalow which I think you may have?
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
I will be getting loft insulation done this year so a consideration, hit 35C this year.
I did mine myself last weekend. Took me about 8 hours and spent £400 all in. Beat the quotes of £1000+ I got off various companies. Was hard work though.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Insulation works both ways ;) It can keep heat out, just as well as keeping it in. Insulating your loft can help keep the heat in the loft in the summer rather than it cooking the house, especially in a bungalow which I think you may have?
Correct and it will be foam insulation on the inside of the roof rather than fibre on top of the ceiling, hopefully it will help to reduce heating in the summer.
 

raduv1

Distinguished Member
There will be no report strong enough , no data overwhelming enough to change anything . We are in a global economy that the big fishes do not and will not accept climate change against economic output .

We fudged .
 

Sonic67

Distinguished Member
Flybe was going under with lots of job losses.


The government has promised to review the £26 air passenger duty that is levied on domestic UK return fights, which has added to the airline's losses.

But the prospect of cutting taxes on flying has angered climate activists who argue that flying is the most carbon intensive mode of transport.

Green Party MP Caroline Lucas said reducing air passenger duty was "utterly inconsistent with any serious commitment" to tackle climate change.


Air passenger duty was added to discourage people from flying.

So should we have had the job losses and been green or what? Can Emma Thompson fly over with a view?


Dame Emma Thompson has admitted it was hypocritical to fly to a climate change protest, but insists she flies a lot less than she used to.

Aah, flying less than you used to is ok.
 

Tempest

Distinguished Member
If you have a spare 12 mins I'd like to recommend watching this as it's very interesting.

Watched this this morning and found it very through provoking with putting things into perspective.

Pause for a moment and think of all the hyped up frenzy in the current media about the OMG shock horror of a sea levels and land.
A few inches here, a few feet there, and stories of almost worlds end for human civilization as we know it.

And consider what's shown in this video to hopefully pull back some level of perspective here on reality and how our short term worries are nothing compared to just the normal state of quite recent changes,

 

DPinBucks

Distinguished Member
If you have a spare 12 mins I'd like to recommend watching this as it's very interesting.

Watched this this morning and found it very through provoking with putting things into perspective.

Pause for a moment and think of all the hyped up frenzy in the current media about the OMG shock horror of a sea levels and land.
A few inches here, a few feet there, and stories of almost worlds end for human civilization as we know it.

And consider what's shown in this video to hopefully pull back some level of perspective here on reality and how our short term worries are nothing compared to just the normal state of quite recent changes,

Fascinating video! Really good stuff.

But I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Sure, sea levels have fluctuated dramatically at times; locally, like this event, or globally.

But think of the effect the refilling of the Med would have had on its inhabitants. Imagine what would have happened if there were humans around then, with the equivalents of Venice, Barcelona, Marseilles, etc on the shore lines.

In today's world it wouldn't take much more than a metre or so of sea level rise to inundate population centres with millions of inhabitants. Even London and New York would be at risk. A metre may not sound like much, but add it to 'normal' extreme weather events such as tidal surges and hurricanes, and you get severe problems.

Sure, London and New York could adapt by spending a few $billion on improved defences. But much of Micronesia, Bangladesh, West Africa, the Caribbean, could not.

Global sea level rises, of even a few 10's of cm, are a big worry.
 

WeeScottishLass

Active Member
Fascinating video! Really good stuff.

But I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Sure, sea levels have fluctuated dramatically at times; locally, like this event, or globally.

But think of the effect the refilling of the Med would have had on its inhabitants. Imagine what would have happened if there were humans around then, with the equivalents of Venice, Barcelona, Marseilles, etc on the shore lines.

In today's world it wouldn't take much more than a metre or so of sea level rise to inundate population centres with millions of inhabitants. Even London and New York would be at risk. A metre may not sound like much, but add it to 'normal' extreme weather events such as tidal surges and hurricanes, and you get severe problems.

Sure, London and New York could adapt by spending a few $billion on improved defences. But much of Micronesia, Bangladesh, West Africa, the Caribbean, could not.

Global sea level rises, of even a few 10's of cm, are a big worry.
And there are more humans these days living around the coastal areas so there would be a lot more loss of life.
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
Agreed.....Yet coastal properties continue to rise in value
There's a chronic shortage of housing in the UK and ALL property has increased to silly money. People need somewhere to live now, even if it might not be there in 30 years time.
 

justincase

Well-known Member
I wasn't just referring to the UK..
Two identical properties,one on the coast and one more inland,which will likely have the most value..

I know there is a housing shortage but if these properties might not be there in 30 years their value should at least remain relatively stagnant compared to inland properties shouldn't they unless that will only happen once the sea is upon the door step..
Just a thought
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
I wasn't just referring to the UK..
Two identical properties,one on the coast and one more inland,which will likely have the most value..

I know there is a housing shortage but if these properties might not be there in 30 years their value should at least remain relatively stagnant compared to inland properties shouldn't they unless that will only happen once the sea is upon the door step..
Just a thought
Where is the evidence to support your claim that coastal properties which are at risk of disappearing are increasing above national averages?
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
Where is the evidence to support your claim that coastal properties which are at risk of disappearing are increasing above national averages?
Well you could look at the example of Dubai - people want ocean front property and they only had a small amount of ocean front - so they built a lot more ocean front to meet demand.
 

justincase

Well-known Member
Where is the evidence to support your claim that coastal properties which are at risk of disappearing are increasing above national averages?
I don't recall saying coastal properties are increasing above national averages,they may be but i never made that claim...I have no interest in national averages any more than anyone else,you have interest in property you want to buy..
.I questioned why they still continue to rise in value,the same could apply to some farmland as well,,

Only evidence i have is 15 years of actually looking for properties to buy in France or Spain,,,coastal property is largely dearer,,,you could look on a property developers website to see that the closer to the coast you go an identical new build is dearer..

Well you could look at the example of Dubai - people want ocean front property and they only had a small amount of ocean front - so they built a lot more ocean front to meet demand.
Exactly...When the most logical thing to do would be to head for the hills imho
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
What is your point exactly?

Nobody can explain why people do stupid or illogical things. It happens every day in thousands of ways.

People on this forum pay hundreds of quid for cabling when there is no evidence it's better than the cheaper stuff.

People buy properties that could be underwater in a few decades.

Illogical, but it still happens.
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
Well you could look at the example of Dubai - people want ocean front property and they only had a small amount of ocean front - so they built a lot more ocean front to meet demand.
There would potentially have been a lot more demand if people werent scared of sea level rises.... The point is you don't know either way as there is no evidence given here to substantiate the claim.

The point about climate change impacts is they are based on science, not opinion.
 

Pacifico

Distinguished Member
There would potentially have been a lot more demand if people werent scared of sea level rises.... The point is you don't know either way as there is no evidence given here to substantiate the claim.
I cant think of a single country where ocean front property does not command a premium. Have you got any examples of where that would not be the case?
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
But think of the effect the refilling of the Med would have had on its inhabitants. Imagine what would have happened if there were humans around then, with the equivalents of Venice, Barcelona, Marseilles, etc on the shore lines.
Venice is already under water in places, levels have been rising for a while.
 

justincase

Well-known Member
And your point is?
Clearly not everyone is worrying about it,,don't believe it will effect them or will be long dead so it will be someone elses problem..
Just find it strange that people want to live by the beach/coast when the seas are rising...The same way i find it strange how people are amazed when they live next to a river and get flooded or half way up a mountain in the alps and get hit by an avalanche
 

phil t

Well-known Member
Clearly not everyone is worrying about it,,don't believe it will effect them or will be long dead so it will be someone elses problem..
Just find it strange that people want to live by the beach/coast when the seas are rising...The same way i find it strange how people are amazed when they live next to a river and get flooded or half way up a mountain in the alps and get hit by an avalanche
And some smoke 20 + fags a day, live on a flood plain, etc.

People not worrying just means that they're not worrying, not anything else.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
don't believe it will effect them or will be long dead so it will be someone elses problem..
This is the entire problem in a nutshell. And why nothing will get done.

If it doesn't immediately affect us, it's like we then don't believe it's ever going to happen.

Future generations will likely look back and chastise us for being so reckless.
 

justincase

Well-known Member
This is the entire problem in a nutshell. And why nothing will get done.

If it doesn't immediately affect us, it's like we then don't believe it's ever going to happen.

Future generations will likely look back and chastise us for being so reckless.
Like i've said before the science behind it ( if it's a man made problem or natural phenomena) is beyond me,i'm no scientist and i can't dispute claims from either side of the argument ...

As a species i think we can't see much further than our life expectancy,our concept of time is constrained by that..

maybe we are destined for extinction,we are only animals after all
 

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