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Civil liberties

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by lurker75, May 12, 2005.

  1. lurker75

    lurker75
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    I was just watching Newsnight or some such programme on BBC2 15-20 minutes ago and I noticed something completely ridiculous. "Hoodies" or sweatshirts with hoods are the latest fashion to be stigmatised. Even Tony Blair has agreed that certain shops/Shopping centres are right in not selling these items clothes because certain individuals who wear them are anti-social/commit crime etc etc. This is getting ridiculous to the point where certain shopping centres are refusing entry to the people wearing hooded tops. You would think in this day and age that society wouldn't judge a person by how they look but now people's civil liberties are being abused just because certain OTHER people act a certain way. Why should normal law-abiding citizens be stigmatised for wearing certain clothes? Do these clothes "possess" the person wearing them and make them commit an act of crime or social deviance? Of course they don't. Should all skinheads be branded racists and Nazi's? So why make sweeping judgments about an item of clothing.

    Personally I think this is ridiculous and no worse than racial profiling... " He's black driving a BMW, it must be stolen let's arrest him!" How flipping ridiculous is that. We live in a brave new world and at this rate George Orwell is going to be right, we will live in a big brother society with no freedoms.

    What do you think about this?
     
  2. ~Kev H~

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    where are these shopping centres? I might just go for a shopping spree with some friends all wearing our hoodies proudly emblazened with "Sussex University" on the front. Do you think that would confuse security? :rotfl:

    Muppets :thumbsdow
     
  3. smelly

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    But judging people on their looks is an everyday occurance.......He's fat so he must be a greedy bugger, she's thin she must be anorexic. Burberry = chav. Glasses = swot. Blonde/big tits = dumb It happens from the playground onwards. Not saying its right but its what happens.

    As to banning people from wearing certain clothes, 99% of me thinks that this is wrong. People should have the freedom to wear what they want. However there is a small part of me....the one that crosses the road when I'm on my own and there's a group of teenagers dressed like that on the corner drinking white lightening.....that can understand in a way. Sorry.
     
  4. lurker75

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    I believe it was somewhere in Essex but I didn't catch the name. Apparently they had some kind of survey and everybody seems scared of people in "hoodies".
     
  5. Mr.D

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    I don't see why its a problem. Motorcyclists are required to remove their helmets in banks and offices as a security precaution.
     
  6. ~Kev H~

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    I can totally understand (and agree with) not letting kids wander around shopping centres with their hoodies over their head (and the baseball cap that's invariably also on it... oh what a look :rolleyes: ) for security reasons, obscuring their faces from camera etc. Exactly the same as the rules for motorcyclists as mentioned above and I have no problem with that.

    But as for telling people what they can and cant wear to go out shopping. No, thats a step too far dont you think? Should I just go cold in the winter if the only thing I have that's clean and warm is a hoodie? :lease:
     
  7. dolph

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    It's Bluewater shopping centre in Kent for those that are interested...
     
  8. pringtef

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    It's unfortunate that it has to come to this, but given the nature of problems that have occurred, short of having the police watching 24x7 in person, i don't think there's much else that could be done.

    It non PC to say it these days, but as far as i'm concerned, sterotypes usually occur because there are a significant enough number of similar occurrences to allow the generation of this. Over the populace these stereotypes rarely ever represent the majority, but the minorities actions are significant enough to raise this above the level of isolated incidences in the human mind.

    In this case I think the shops concerned are using it as a chav removal tool. Maybe they should have added wearing gold signet rings, shell suit, and loitering around with cause to upset.

    As ever though, its the minority that spoil it for the majority.
     
  9. vonhosen

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    What about the freedom of a shop keeper to decide who they want as customers or not ?

    If I heard the report right, they are not stating that anyone with a baseball cap or hoody will be refused entry, but warned that in response to their customers wishes there are certain cricumstances that if you are dressed in this manner then you wil be asked to leave.

    Circumstances such as , dressed as above, in a group, obviously not purchasing anything but just using the centre as a meeting place or place to hang around. A lone 40 year old won't be required to leave for wearing a baseball cap necessarily for instance.

    This has come about because of the concerns expressed by the centres customers & as such should the centre not be able to act to alieviate the fears of their customers & protect their business ?

    After all as previously pointed out motorcycle helmet wearers can't go in banks for security reasons.

    A (for want of a better word) tramp might be refused entry to the "Ivy" restaurant because of they way they are dressed, despite them holding the results of their lottery win in their hands as well.

    A no jeans dress code may be employed at a night club.

    Harrods won't let you into the shop bare chested or females in bikini tops.

    Are these any different to what the shopping centre is doing ?
     
  10. GalacticaActual

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    totaly agree with that.
    I am afraid that this seems to be the only way to make the other shoppers(who make up the majority of the customers in blue water) feel safe. The simple fact is is that shoppers feel genuinely intimidated by these groups, especially if they are hiding there faces under the hoods and caps.
     
  11. vonhosen

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    What happened this week ?

    Oh yes , retail sales figures were released that show the largest slump in consumer spending for a long time & then the shopping centre make an announcement that probably isn't changing a policy they have already been employing (groups of youngsters , hanging around in the centre wearing hooded tops will be asked to leave) & they secure free national advertising on all our news programmes & in our newspapers for a couple of days.

    Just the centre marketing manager pulling a free advertising masterstroke if you ask me. :D

    It's got us all talking about the place.
     
  12. Sarah T

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    Chav or no chav,wearing a baseball cap or a hoody is a crime against fashion. I'm all for the ban, these people are offensive to the eye and should be forced to stay indoors.
     
  13. Garrett

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    Why would anyone not want to remove there hoods once inside, the only reason is to be one of the gang and intimidate people or hide.
     
  14. roversd1

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    Your avtar bloke would be kicked out straight away..... :rotfl:
     
  15. Squiffy

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    I don't understand what the rule is.

    Is it that they are only banning people who have the hoods up, or are people wearing a hoody full stop banned?

    Our 4 year old loves his hoody. And we did buy it for him from a shop in Bluewater....
     
  16. Squiffy

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    Dodgy haircuts?

    Or being slightly serious, people undergoing chemotherapy or with unsightly scarring may not want to be forced to take off a baseball cap.
     
  17. SanPedro

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    From what I understand the management are reseving the right to eject anybody weraing a hoody. It's not a blanket ban. I doubt your 4 year old will get kicked out. Unless of course he starts drinking white lighting in public and nicks stuff from shops. ;)

    I guess the reason they've been banned is that the security staff can't see who the rogues are on CCTV when they are thieving stuff from shops as they have there hoody over their face and can't be recognised.

    It's sad that it's come to something like this but I guess the management are only going off the centre's crime stats and CCTV footage.

    chris
     
  18. mrtbag

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    I thought it all started because Bluewater Shopping Centre had experienced issues with gangs in Hood's or caps causing problems. The CCTV cannot identify these people properly when their faces are covered, so they are banning them. It seems fair enough to me if that is the correct reason.


    EDIT: Should of read the post above first!!
     
  19. Bristol Pete

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    True. But would you shop there knowing you could be terrorised by some hooded scamp!?!?!
     
  20. mjn

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    I think you mean...."he must be a pimp!" :devil:
     
  21. Dr Diversity

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    I had my hoodie removed when I was a small child.
     

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