CI+ cams for ziggo is there a difference???

cooknl

Active Member
There are for as far as I know 2 different MFGR's that make the ziggo approved CI+ cam modules.

Those makers are Neotion and @smit.

Are there any differences between the cam modules that make one better or faster or sharper then the other?

If you have any information please respond in this thread.

Thanx

Rob
 

slc79

Active Member
Sharper? as in image quality? Does not affect that at all. I don't think there will be any differences in speed either, as the limiting factor in speed is the CPU power of the viewing card. Card gets a challenge, card responds, image decoded... to oversimplify it :) this process isn't very demanding to begin with, and we're talking milliseconds for the operations even in a worst case scenario.
 

cooknl

Active Member
Sharper? as in image quality? Does not affect that at all. I don't think there will be any differences in speed either, as the limiting factor in speed is the CPU power of the viewing card. Card gets a challenge, card responds, image decoded... to oversimplify it :) this process isn't very demanding to begin with, and we're talking milliseconds for the operations even in a worst case scenario.

Thx for youre reply SLC, but as far as sharper is concerned, when using a smit versus a neotion there is a definite difference in favor of the neotion.
Also I understand that the Neotion startsup quicker, havent got the Neotion yet but ordered it so I will be able to tell in a day or two.

The sharpness was tested with a neotion of a friend.

Rob
 

slc79

Active Member
It really shouldn't be any difference in image quality, the decoding happens in your TV, not the CAM. The CAM only sends keys to the TV used for decryption. I've seen an old Conax CAM even emulate a lot of systems it does not actually support, and it all boiled down to the actual card being used :) the faster the card, the faster the descrambling.
 

cooknl

Active Member
Ahh maybe the smith card we compared too was goofy although as you say it shouldnt make any diff. then. Maybe the VT-30???
hmmmmm i must say that after the vt-30 was cold reset and all the channels were read back in it was sharper for a bout 10 days to 2 weeks and then i had to reset it again. That was one of the reasons that i got my refund and got a d8000.
Interesting....

Rob
 

slc79

Active Member
Differences in the image quality must be down to the TV somehow, yes. Allthough, I will keep an open mind on the CAM actually affect the speed of the decoding itself, but it should not be very noticeable in any case.

What encryption is this Ziggy thing using?
 

cooknl

Active Member
Ziggo uses CIplus what it consists of i do not know.

And ZIGGO is the provider for digital and analog cable tv in Holland.
 

slc79

Active Member
CI+ is just what the standard is called. Did a lookup and it appears that Ziggo (no wonder I didn't find anything the first time mis-reading it as Ziggy :p) is using the irdeto2 encryption scheme. So unless cards are paired, you should in theory be able to use any irdeto2 CAM for this.
 

cooknl

Active Member
What do you mean by CARDS ARE PAIRED??? The irdeto 2 norm sounds right but was modified especially for ZIGGO, what is different I dont know, but I do know that former cams did work till early this year i believe. And Ziggo also said that they would not garrantee that non ci+ cams would continue to work as they did work before.
 

slc79

Active Member
I see that Ziggo used another encryption system before irdeto2, so they probably ran what is called simulcrypt (two systems simultaneously) while people makes appropriate changes. Card pairing is quite common nowadays, and means that the cards must be "paired" to whatever device is going to decode the channels by serial number. My satellite provider is using this, so the card will not work in any other CAMs than they have activated in their system.

Anyway, in this case it's always best to stick with equipment that is officially supported, or you may run into the situation of not being able to use the service :) My old Conax CAM did work with my current satellite card, but it didn't receive the keep-alive-signals that was sent every 10 minutes or so because of mismatch between CAM and card. My brother is currently borrowing my old Conax CAM and uses it without problem on a cable network from the same provider, as those cards are not paired on the basic package.
 

cooknl

Active Member
Well I am pretty sure that the cards are not paired with the Cam. I changed cams earlier this evening with the same card, only thing i had to do was insert cam first without the card in it, then it went thru a 5 step authorization, and then it asked for the card, and it worked great after that.
 

cooknl

Active Member
Well had a chance to checkout my new Neotion cam for ziggo, all I can say is that buying the smit is a waste of time, literally. I find the Neotion to take 4 seconds to switch channels and the smit takes 6 to 8 seconds. Also from a cold start the Neotion starts a bunch faster.

Rob
 

cooknl

Active Member
What I also am glad to be rid of from the VT-30, is the COLORBANDING. That was a real sore spot with me, I hate that colorbanding.
:) But the d8000 is happely missing the colorbanding effect color gradations are very smooth with the Sammy.

Rob
 

slc79

Active Member
Yes, I'm also quite happy to see banding, green patches and color gradations gone :) I've also noticed how the phosphor lag is much better.
 

cooknl

Active Member
Phosphor LAG , could you explain what it is you look for and what is better??
 

slc79

Active Member
On the Panasonics, you can easily see green/yellow-ish shadows of objects in fast motion. I can't see this on the D8005. But I have found something that really annoys me, though. This dimming which occurs on a completely black screen. This is so incredibly stupid and useless, and even one single pixel brings the tv out of the "off mode"...
 

cooknl

Active Member
yep I think this dimming might be due to the firmware update you did, you might ring samsung and see if they will replace the board that has the firmware on it with an older firmware. i have 1016.x and dont have the problem

Rob
 

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