Chris Rock is a Racist!

Mighty Chipster said:
I wonder what the public response would be if a "white stand up comic" as part of his / her routine told racist jokes about ethnic minorities here in the UK?

There would be mass hysteria!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
even in america there would be a problem, take Andrew Dice Clay for example.
 
Mighty Chipster said:
I wonder what the public response would be if a "white stand up comic" as part of his / her routine told racist jokes about ethnic minorities here in the UK?

There would be mass hysteria!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

But I think thats where there is a difference between cultures in the UK (and perhaps around the world as well).

I hope that I'm not going to start an almighty argument here, but 'minorities' in the UK will play the 'racist card' quite easily, saying that this or that offends them - with the result that so much in society now has to be 'tipp-toed' around. But 'white' people generally have no such comeback. If something racist is done against them they just have to live with it.
 
Singh400 said:
Read my mind. This guy is funny as hell.

@deanym: :rotfl: haaaa :lol: Yeeaaaah! that was it :rotfl:

Edit* In the words of Russell Peters, White people tend to get offended on behalf of others races, when we aren't offended.

Somebody gonna getta hurt real bad...
 
abraxus said:
Diffrenece or not, caricature makes people laugh, and some find it offensive and others don't, it's a matter of personal opinion. For example I know many people who'd be extremely offended by the term "coloured". But does that make you a racist?
Coloured was the offical term we had to use for members of certain ethnic groups. It has now been replaced by 'black' which is the term apparently preferred. Apologies if that does offend but that's the term we were asked to use. I doubt very much if in the context of my posts someone would find the term offensive. If they did I would happily take it back. That's the issue - context.

abraxus said:
Besides, as we're talking about Chris Rock, you're assuming he's racist, and I'm saying he's not, he's a comedian, and many comedians succeed by pushing boundaries. It's a comedians job to make people laugh, not worry about who might get offended. Laughing at ourselves and others is one step towards understanding, and if we can all do it together, then there are as many positives as negatives. Making a big deal out of it only makes it into something it isn't and increases the likliehood of devisiveness. If a balck comedian makes a joke about how white people dance, do I laugh? Yes Am I offended? Well I could be. Do I think he's racist? No
I never said Chris Rock is racist - ever. I reserve judgement. The main issue was whether overtly racist or tastless comedy is acceptable in all contexts. I have argued it isn't. Jokes about the way white people dance are funny, as they are a reference to something that is inoffensive and a comic observation. Again, context. If Chris Rock said we dance like we are mentally subnormal (or cruder expressions), the context would change and I would cease laughing. Wouldn't you?

abraxus said:
I'm in no way trying to hide what is and isn't funny. Stereotypical jokes, whether aimed at races or sexes can be funny, as can so called "sick" jokes. Whether we should laugh at them is a matter of opinion, but they are nonetheless funny.
Dear oh dear. Sorry, but they aren't. I grew out of so called 'sick jokes' about 26 years ago - when I left school.
 
SOK said:
But I think thats where there is a difference between cultures in the UK (and perhaps around the world as well).

I hope that I'm not going to start an almighty argument here, but 'minorities' in the UK will play the 'racist card' quite easily, saying that this or that offends them - with the result that so much in society now has to be 'tipp-toed' around. But 'white' people generally have no such comeback. If something racist is done against them they just have to live with it.
I would argue they don't. Abraxas is correct in this instance, far too often it's whites, terrified of litigation, that jump through hoops trying not to 'offend' rather than any minority's outcry. With regards the ethnic minorities, after the crap they've taken (and thanks to the BNP and co still take) over the years I'd be pretty 'sensitive' too.

Carefull here SOK, I went to a company do in London a few years back and it was an Irish guy who got sick of the 'comedian's Irish jokes and nearly caused an almighty scene!:D He was right, as it was cringe inducing, but there you go.........
 
overkill said:
Coloured was the offical term we had to use for members of certain ethnic groups. It has now been replaced by 'black' which is the term apparently preferred. Apologies if that does offend but that's the term we were asked to use. I doubt very much if in the context of my posts someone would find the term offensive. If they did I would happily take it back. That's the issue - context. .

Apparently coloured went out some time ago, no idea why it's considered offensive, probably because it was a popular term in the deep south. I know no offence was intended, just surprised to hear it.

overkill said:
I never said Chris Rock is racist - ever. I reserve judgement. The main issue was whether overtly racist or tastless comedy is acceptable in all contexts. I have argued it isn't. Jokes about the way white people dance are funny, as they are a reference to something that is inoffensive and a comic observation. Again, context. If Chris Rock said we dance like we are mentally subnormal (or cruder expressions), the context would change and I would cease laughing. Wouldn't you?

Depends. I agree that context is key, but in the context of a stand up comedian at a comedy show, I believe normal societies rules should be expected to be left outside. I find nothing wrong in laughing at comedy that may otherwise be deemed inappropriate. It's either funny or it isn't.

overkill said:
Dear oh dear. Sorry, but they aren't. I grew out of so called 'sick jokes' about 26 years ago - when I left school.

Well done you. To you they may they not be, but to others they are, that's life.

I like comedy that challenges the norm. Too often in everyday life we have to act within certain boundaries, some rightly so and others perhaps not. Comedy is an opportunity to escape from this, and is often just because it's inappropriate and has the "my god I can't believe he just said that" factor.

Fundamenatlly there is also the free speech issue and leeway given to comedy, whch allows it to often express things that can't be said in other ways. Of course some will abuse that, but like anything else there's usually always a price to pay.

However, in certain areas I guess we should just agree to disagree as there are no absolutes in this type of thing and a lot boils to personal opinion.
 
SOK said:
But 'white' people generally have no such comeback. If something racist is done against them they just have to live with it.

Yeah, being white sucks, doesn't it. All the advantages but having to live with the odd mickey take. On balance I'll take being white and accept the down side.

I must admit though that I used to think you, but I read an interesting article some time ago explaining that unlike other races, whites do not "see" nor are affected by racism. We just have a blind spot towards it. This was written by a man who was white but with an oriental or asian wife if I remember rightly, and was based on many of their travels to other countries.

He found that wherever he went, even as an outsider, he was treated with greater respect because he was white, whereas with his wife, that wasn't always the case. He made the point that universally, even by other races, whites were seen as top of the tree. Even if this was only displayed subtely, it was culturally apparent.

As such, other races often perceive themselves as lesser, and whites (perhaps not deliberately or malicioulsy) end up seeing themselves as better. This results in whites not ever facing the feeling of being the victim of racism and largely explains why other races can be more sensitive to it whereas whites are not.

The important point is the psychological part of racism and not so much the physical or verbal, as this is what runs deep. For example, I know you could say that if you were walking home at night and were attacked by black youths, who shouted anti white remarks at you, while beating you senseless, you may feel that you were the victim of racism. However, stop and think about it, and at any point do you believe that you would think they were better than you, or you in any way inferior to them?
 
abraxus said:
Yeah, being white sucks, doesn't it. All the advantages but having to live with the odd mickey take. On balance I'll take being white and accept the down side.

I must admit though that I used to think you, but I read an interesting article some time ago explaining that unlike other races, whites do not "see" nor are affected by racism. We just have a blind spot towards it. This was written by a man who was white but with an oriental or asian wife if I remember rightly, and was based on many of their travels to other countries.

He found that wherever he went, even as an outsider, he was treated with greater respect because he was white, whereas with his wife, that wasn't always the case. He made the point that universally, even by other races, whites were seen as top of the tree. Even if this was only displayed subtely, it was culturally apparent.

As such, other races often perceive themselves as lesser, and whites (perhaps not deliberately or malicioulsy) end up seeing themselves as better. This results in whites not ever facing the feeling of being the victim of racism and largely explains why other races can be more sensitive to it whereas whites are not.

The important point is the psychological part of racism and not so much the physical or verbal, as this is what runs deep. For example, I know you could say that if you were walking home at night and were attacked by black youths, who shouted anti white remarks at you, while beating you senseless, you may feel that you were the victim of racism. However, stop and think about it, and at any point do you believe that you would think they were better than you, or you in any way inferior to them?

I see what you're getting at, but try be American in Iraq...holy crap you're screwed then eh?
 
abraxus said:
Apparently coloured went out some time ago, no idea why it's considered offensive, probably because it was a popular term in the deep south. I know no offence was intended, just surprised to hear it.
Its just another context thing, Sounds a bit passed as if somebody has gone through some sort of process, or in someway been changed from what they should be.
 
Reign-Mack said:
Its just another context thing, Sounds a bit passed as if somebody has gone through some sort of process, or in someway been changed from what they should be.
I didn't know that, I just don't like it because everyone has a colour. I equally despise the PC american term 'people of colour' for the same reason, and also because its overlong pompous crap.
 
i like chris rock and if he is a racist so is jim davidson and bernard manning and i like both of them,far too many people always say and i quote "I'VE GOT MANY BLACK FRIENDS " that in it's self can be mis-understood as been a racist.We all in some form of way can be classed as being racist but not knowing that we are,we lived with jim for all those years now let chris be
 
krish72 said:
I didn't know that, I just don't like it because everyone has a colour.
Well the term (like many others) was originally created to describe people who are non-white. but calling people that was probably not considered PC at the time.

krish72 said:
I equally despise the PC american term 'people of colour' for the same reason, and also because its overlong pompous crap.

I think afro-american is generally a silly term and calling certain types of music or entertainment urban equally stupid IMO (would probably make the MOBO's easier for some to swallow:rolleyes:) but everybody has a different point of view which also seems to change with each generation.

If a group of people decide they want to be called something different next week, I would just play along. I would not assume that somebody was racist just because they did not get the latest memo.
 
Reign-Mack said:
...... I think afro-american is generally a silly term and calling certain types of music or entertainment urban equally stupid IMO (would probably make the MOBO's easier for some to swallow:rolleyes:) but everybody has a different point of view which also seems to change with each generation.

No I disagree. "Afro-American" merely describes that someone is in America, whose ancestors came from Africa. What's wrong with that ? It's not a derogatory term. People should be proud of their roots and their ethnicity.
 
Nick_UK said:
No I disagree. "Afro-American" merely describes that someone is in America, whose ancestors came from Africa. What's wrong with that ? It's not a derogatory term. People should be proud of their roots and their ethnicity.
I agree in the sense that I am British / British Asian / British Indian and am proud of my roots and ethnicity.

However on the issue of Americans... since we have Native Americans, and African Americans, I often wonder whether the white population should really be called European Americans rather than just Americans ??
 
krish72 said:
I agree in the sense that I am British / British Asian / British Indian and am proud of my roots and ethnicity.

However on the issue of Americans... since we have Native Americans, and African Americans, I often wonder whether the white population should really be called European Americans rather than just Americans ??


All the Americans I've met (from a whole range of ethnic backgrounds) seem to think of themselves as Americans, and don't seem to pay much heed to their ethnicity (except maybe their religious leanings).
 
Nick_UK said:
All the Americans I've met (from a whole range of ethnic backgrounds) seem to think of themselves as Americans, and don't seem to pay much heed to their ethnicity (except maybe their religious leanings).

I've met open racism in Alabama,Tennessee,and Georgia.A white taxi driver once advised me not to stray into a certain area as it was N****rville!He thought it hilarious.Needless to say I didn't.I'm white BTW.
 
Racists come in many different colours and flavours.
 
abraxus said:
I like comedy that challenges the norm. Too often in everyday life we have to act within certain boundaries, some rightly so and others perhaps not. Comedy is an opportunity to escape from this, and is often just because it's inappropriate and has the "my god I can't believe he just said that" factor.

Fundamenatlly there is also the free speech issue and leeway given to comedy, whch allows it to often express things that can't be said in other ways. Of course some will abuse that, but like anything else there's usually always a price to pay.

However, in certain areas I guess we should just agree to disagree as there are no absolutes in this type of thing and a lot boils to personal opinion.
I would agree to the latter. ;)

I would also agree that comedy should be allowed to be given a free reign and the new laws regarding 'racist behaviour' may indeed inhibit comedians and damage free speech.

However, I still hold to the view that some 'jokes' are tasteless and unnecessary, and the 'sick jokes' you refer to are the cheap option of buffons who aren't capable of producing any better material. The comment about those sort of jokes and growing out of them wasn't meant as a personal comment either. No-one I know enjoys those sort of jokes - apart from my son, who's in year 7! ;)

There is always though, a line over which you should not step. I cannot see that there is a 'price to pay'. Why should people have to accept crude tasteless jokes about, for example, their disabilities, when the comedian can, and should, just write better quality lines?

All we are doing by accepting this behaviour as 'throwaway' is encouraging bigotry, and equally criminal, crap comedy writing!
 
Nick_UK said:
All the Americans I've met (from a whole range of ethnic backgrounds) seem to think of themselves as Americans, and don't seem to pay much heed to their ethnicity (except maybe their religious leanings).
Not sure about that Nick. Scratch the surface and an Italian, Polish, Irish American emerges. At the moment the 'terror' factor has submerged these differences (some say thats one reason why Bush is keen to keep fanning the flames) and heightened nationalism in the US. Just as the Cold war did. The US needs foreign 'enemies' to stop the various factions, North - South, East - West, Black - White, and historical Ethnic groups from falling out. As they started to in the 90's.
 
I think immigrants to the US are far more patriotic then immigrants to the UK. That has been my experience, and I have been to the US a lot.
 
Nick_UK said:
I think immigrants to the US are far more patriotic then immigrants to the UK. That has been my experience, and I have been to the US a lot.
Well, that's not what the Americans think. Hence the huge contraversy over the recent immigration laws and the proposed 'amnesty' for illegals in the states. Bush really looked like he was going to take a risk, then backed down over fierce public pressure from the right.

Immigrants to the US from the Far East tend to be patriotic and those from communist and ex communist countries, no idea why..........;)
 
(hornets nest coming !)..........

Maybe because immigrants come to the UK for financial and welfare reasons, and immigrants go to America for political reasons ?
 
Nick_UK said:
No I disagree. "Afro-American" merely describes that someone is in America, whose ancestors came from Africa. What's wrong with that ? It's not a derogatory term. People should be proud of their roots and their ethnicity.
I never implied that I thought it was derogatory so im not sure where that came from nick?

I think its silly because its usually just a term given to all black people in america not a person in america who may have African Ancestors who could also be white btw.
 
Reign-Mack said:
I never implied that I thought it was derogatory so im not sure where that came from nick?

I think its silly because its usually just a term given to all black people in america not a person in america who may have African Ancestors who could also be white btw.

Sorry, the word "derogatory" was ill-chosen :oops:

I think the word "African American" really refers to a culture, and not a race.
 

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