Choosing SUB and DAC to pair with my yamaha hs80 monitors

dariuscook

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Hi guys,

New to this site - first post! But have been reading posts here for years. Ill give a brief introduction to my set up. I am a masters student so money is tight. Ive been looking to get a pair of monitors for years (my bro had a small home studio set up) and I loved the idea of active monitors, for their clarity and simplicity in amp set up, balance etc.. maybe it was my idea of having some sort of cheap audiophile set up where I can easily judge badly record albums and such. I understand the limitations in active monitors for listening purposes only, and sometimes i think it may of been better to of got a good 2nd hand loudspeaker/amp set up, but mainly when I'm listening to a badly mixed album.

In the end after going to a shop and testing the KRK 8's and the yamahas hs80 i went for the hs80. I felt they were clearer on all different types of music that i listen to (which is extremely varied, but to give an idea i like beirut and yeasayer first albums (a lot of vocals and instruments), along with deep electronic such as Alix Perez and Holy Other, and of course classics such as Pink Floyd, Radiohead. Im also a big hip hop fan) So i got the hs80, some balanced xlr cables and a cheap wharf dale usb mixer (was about £35) to use as my DAC from my macbookpro. after playing around with speaker placement and using the EQs switches on the back of the yamahas i found putting the highs and mid to the -2db position to be most favourable in listening after 2 weeks playing around. I use a program called Fidelia on my mac, to listen to my FLAC collection, otherwise iTunes on mp3 320, and have a very small 'smiley' EQ put on (at about a max of 0.75db at the smiliest ends). This seems to work quite well. But i do feel like I miss music in the very low end on my electronic music and miss a deep kick on drums and some hip hop beats (with or without any form of EQ on the speakers and iTunes)

In one room i wasn't too impressed by the bass from it. But after moving rooms after 6months, my speakers were now against a wall and produced a strong bass effect. Even after moving them away from the wall and cutting the bass down to -2db i still found that they were quite boomy and slightly undefined. I use the speakers for listening to music, predominately with a lot of bass, and also for movies. It was always my idea to get a sub and DAC along with it when I have the money.

So now I am interested in getting these two subwoofer:

- Matching Yamaha HS10w subwoofer (30hz range, 8" cone, £430)
- M-Audio Sb10x Subwoofer (20hz range, 10" cone, £250)

I was always thinking of getting the yamaha sub to have the ideal/natural 'balance' between using matching sub and monitors. But they are fairly expensive for my budget (no way want to spend over 450£), and the response goes down to 30hz and with having an 8" cone the same with my monitors I am fairly off put by this. The M-audio is a cheaper option, provides a cutoff switch (to provent neighbour annoyance easily at night!), and goes down to 20hz and having a larger 10" cone.

I guess my question is, does the yamaha have more benefits with it being paired with the my yamaha monitors over using the m-audio? Of course i like to get a lot for my money, and having the sub going down to 20hz seems much better than going down to 30hz (which i believe my monitors go down to 40hz already). Will this 10hz make much of a difference? How will the pairing differ? I would plan on putting the crossover at 80hz. Also on a side note, by using a sub and crossover with it, will I be able to get a louder sound overall for the occasional party, by not loading the monitors so much?

--

My next question is Im looking to upgrade on my DAC from my cheap temporary wharf dale, with a DAC having a USB input for use with my laptop. Im looking again to spend about 200-300£. Will i really notice the difference in a better DAC? At the moment i find my cheap one sounding a bit digital and jittery. Ive been looking around and i was thinking of getting one of these:

- Cambridge Audio DACMagic (USB in, XLR out, £230)
- Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus (USB in, XLR out, volume knob, £350)
- Arcam rDAC (USB In, RCA out, £280)

Ive heard very good reviews about the arcam but I am looking on connecting my monitors (via my sub) straight in my DAC, and the arcam only has RCA outputs. Is this much inferior to using XLR cables? I prefer to use XLR cables as the connection is sturdier and because their is interference on RCA cables you can use cheaper cables to little effect on XLR.

I really like the look of the CA DACMagic, its a nice looking box has a variety of inputs and outputs of course with the XLR out. I then stumbled on the updated DACMagic Plus, which is supposed to have slightly better 'insides' giving a better sound output. I am not bothered by the possibility of the bluetooth connection (its nice and could be used with my iPhone, but I'm not bothered to spend another £70 on the bluetooth dongle). But I am very interested in the volume knob it has. This can be used in 3 ways, as a volume knob for headphones (which i won't be using it for), as a volume knob for XLR output (acting as a type of pre-amp), or turned off to use a true line level on the XLR output. I am wondering what the effect of using the volume knob will have on the sound quality instead of using it as a line level and adjusting the volume on my laptop? Is there much diffence? (My monitors are always in neutral position at 12 o'clock.) I like the idea of the knob as it gives my setup more of a hifi feel to it (as in a physical aspect to it), makes it easy to adjust the volume. And if I'm connecting my PS3 via optical out (to get Blu-Ray audio through it) I can adjust the volume easily using this. Im also using a standard USB cable (i think around £5), would switching to a high quality USB cable (say around 50-100£) make an audible difference?

I would also like to add an ipod/mp3/headphone jack (for a friend coming over etc..) connection in my setup somehow. The only way i can think of is by using a jack to RCA connector straight to my monitors (via Sub) , but this would be bit of a hassle as I would have to switch cables around. Is there a DAC which could have USB in, Anaolgue in, together with a XLR output and potential volume knob also? Or is there another way around this using my potential set up above, (is there a RCA to Coaxial cheap adapter even possible? bare in mind that I'm not too bothered about the iPod connection having the best quality, just for ease)

Please forgive me if i have got some technical things wrong here, I am new to audiophile and learning every time, so please correct me anywhere, Im sorry its so long, just trying to explain everything I can. If you can please give me some advice and some tips, it would be so so appreciated!

Many Thanks,


Darius
 
WOW! Possibly the longest ever first posting.:clap:

I suspect the sheer length may be the reason why no-one has yet replied - until now.

I too use active studio monitors for music (and TV in my case) and that's what caught my eye. As you've been following this forum for some time, you'd have noticed that few other posters use active systems.

Interesting to note that you've begun to question the abilities of your speakers. To me, as a long time convert to all things active, that's baffling. All I'd say is: go listen to an acknowledged good passive hifi speaker and that will reaffirm why you chose active in the first place.

Owning such revealing speakers as the Yam HS80's means that you experience both advantages and disadvantages (if that's how you see it). If you were a glass half empty person, it would be natural to bemoan the ruthless dissection of a bad recording. If you were a glass half full person, you'd relish the stunning immediacy of an excellent recording that only a good active system can reproduce, IMO (hell no, it's fact).

Seems you're having problems with bass reproduction in your current listening room. This is unfortunately an all too common occurrence with both active and passive designs that have extended bass. Sometimes, if you can't place speakers to give good bass, then room treatment is the sensible option - worth looking into.

I don't use a sub so can't add much except to say that using one can introduce as many problems as it solves. Your Yams have 8" bass units. I suspect the Yam HS10W was primarily designed for the Yam HS50M's, not your HS80's, despite what Yam's advertising blurb may say, so I don't see there's any advantage in limiting yourself to a Yam sub. I'm unconvinced a sub is the solution but concede that it might be and I agree with you that to add an 8" driver sub seems a bit pointless - If big bass is your thing, go for a proper 12" jobby (or multiple driver equivalent) though any sub you buy may not integrate easily into your system - the speaker and subwoofer forum here is littered with examples of this.

BK subwoofers are often recommended on this forum and the XXLS400 in particular has been well reviewed, is in budget and relatively small at 50ltrs. By the way, a sub's absolute bass extension is just one consideration and probably not the most important. It’s easy to see why folks concentrate on this aspect because it's written down in black & white - more important though is the bass quality, unfortunately that cannot readily be listed in the specification.

Personally, I'm a bit sceptical about expensive DAC's. The tendency for anyone who's spent hundreds (or more) on a piece of electronic is to enthuse about it - it's a psychological thing about self-justifying the purchase, I guess. I use a cheap FiiO D3 (no USB input though) and the sound is very accurate, so much so that to my mind, nothing could be a significant sonic improvement. But at the high end of recorded music reproduction equipment, 'subtle differences' somehow morph into 'vast improvements'.

A DAC with multiple switched inputs and a volume control would be useful and I'd pay extra for that but choice is sparse at present - it's a developing market. Wait a year and I'm sure there will be more low priced offerings about. Have a look at the What hifi website to get an idea of what's currently available. Some "digital pre-amps" have XLR (balanced) outputs that would suit your Yams perfectly. You could use the RCA (phono style, unbalanced) inputs on your speakers; I doubt there would be much difference in audio quality although XLR cables and connections can give lower electrical noise in some circumstances and, as you suggest, XLR's are stronger connections.
 
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