Choosing new speakers

Aslund

Active Member
Intriguing sir...

Any closer to a decision yet?
Not yet. I was allowed to keep the Gato Audio equipment until Monday.
The first step for me was to figure out how good or bad the TDAI-1120 is, which I feel a bit relaxed about now. Both regarding the sonic qualities and power reserves.
Tomorrow or Saturday I will properly replace the speaker furthest from the corner with Gato Audio FM-30 and compare it with Sonetto V. It has to be without RoomPerfect, but it is properly the best way to compare the speakers.
 

Aslund

Active Member
This is properly one of the more embarrassing posts I have to write. To make it short, I actually think I prefer Sonetto V over FM-30.
When I auditioned the speakers I was taken aback by the details in the treble of the Sonetto V bit I felt the bass was missing. With the FM-30 the deep punchy bass surpriced and entranced me.
Here at my own home, for some reason, even with Gato Audio's own amplifier, I don't get the same power on the bass. It is nice but not the same. On the other hand has the bass improved on the Sonetto V.
Sitting here this morning, with the Sonetto V and FM-30 on each channel on the TDAI-1120, without RoomPerfect, I really enjoy the extra details of the Sonetto V. The treble details makes the soundstage widen up. I tried to use the jumpers on the back of the FM-30 to increase the treble and midrange but it really did not change much. The voices are more open and clear on Sonetto V while it feels a bit recessed on the FM-30.
My only problem with Sonetto V, when I listened to it yesterday was that the bass could tend to be boomy. But I wonder if I can fix it my increasing the height.
The dealer has mounted the spikes opposit. So the spikes point upward and the dial down. I wonder if I could try to turn it around so the spikes point downward and steal the floorprotectors from FM-30 to lift the height.

Edit:
To those who don't know. The Sonetto V has downfiring bass port.
 

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Orobas

Well-known Member
This is properly one of the more embarrassing posts I have to write. To make it short, I actually think I prefer Sonetto V over FM-30.
When I auditioned the speakers I was taken aback by the details in the treble of the Sonetto V bit I felt the bass was missing. With the FM-30 the deep punchy bass surpriced and entranced me.
Here at my own home, for some reason, even with Gato Audio's own amplifier, I don't get the same power on the bass. It is nice but not the same. On the other hand has the bass improved on the Sonetto V.
Sitting here this morning, with the Sonetto V and FM-30 on each channel on the TDAI-1120, without RoomPerfect, I really enjoy the extra details of the Sonetto V. The treble details makes the soundstage widen up. I tried to use the jumpers on the back of the FM-30 to increase the treble and midrange but it really did not change much. The voices are more open and clear on Sonetto V while it feels a bit recessed on the FM-30.
My only problem with Sonetto V, when I listened to it yesterday was that the bass could tend to be boomy. But I wonder if I can fix it my increasing the height.
The dealer has mounted the spikes opposit. So the spikes point upward and the dial down. I wonder if I could try to turn it around so the spikes point downward and steal the floorprotectors from FM-30 to lift the height.

Edit:
To those who don't know. The Sonetto V has downfiring bass port.
The Gato's "lack" of bass presence at your home may be down to it being more accurate, tighter with more control and much faster than the Sonetto.

As you mentioned.. the Sonetto is still giving you boomy bass which can be positioning or... looser control of the drivers meaning you are getting over run with the bass notes.

As for the treble and mid.. this is largely room dependant with speakers also when you get to higher end.. but.. and this is the interesting bit.. Sonus Faber have changed their sound profile to what they used to have to favour that more forward stance which is showing clear for you! Also.. the extra 3db sensitivity on the Sonetto is showing its hand there being much easier to drive and being much louder for the same volume than the Gato.

Gato on the other hand... their voicing is more for specific music genre and with the recess on the mid and treble.. i would be probably be guessing they are more designed with classical/jazz at hand which needs that higher end recessing slightly.

This is why we do the demo's .. in store initially.. and then at home to see what works for us and how it sounds in the comfort of our house.. this can expose things like boom from cupboard spaces, plasterboard walls.. against a tight hard bass from a solid brick wall for example..

I am glad that you have stuck with the thread and followed my guide to do a direct one speaker on each channel of the amp so you can directly hear the 2 against each other.

Bit dissapointed that the Gato has come second fiddle to the Sonus Faber for you.. but Sonus Faber have never been an easy speaker to beat! But at least now you have had the chance to compare properly.

As for the bass control with a down port... Get the speaker on a solid stone platform (paving slab with felt pads underneath to stop any scratching of surfaces) .. that will take out a huge chunk of lower end boom. Give the air something hard to hit to dissipate on.. instead of a carpet or a laminate.

As the Sonus appears to have won for you.. I have a real teaser now.... See if you can listen to the Olympica Nova II's .. You will have to go ex demo to afford these (against the Sonetto V new).. but they take the Sonetto to the next level on every extreme.. they are almost a "sealed" box design with their unique port design.. its some very clever engineering behind that design.. These are hard 4ohm speakers running down to 3.5ohm.. so you need high power, high current for them. The only thing that i would caution on the Nova's is a lift at 2.3kHz... it's audible... thats top end mid range resonance
 

Aslund

Active Member
The Gato's "lack" of bass presence at your home may be down to it being more accurate, tighter with more control and much faster than the Sonetto.

As you mentioned.. the Sonetto is still giving you boomy bass which can be positioning or... looser control of the drivers meaning you are getting over run with the bass notes.

As for the treble and mid.. this is largely room dependant with speakers also when you get to higher end.. but.. and this is the interesting bit.. Sonus Faber have changed their sound profile to what they used to have to favour that more forward stance which is showing clear for you! Also.. the extra 3db sensitivity on the Sonetto is showing its hand there being much easier to drive and being much louder for the same volume than the Gato.

Gato on the other hand... their voicing is more for specific music genre and with the recess on the mid and treble.. i would be probably be guessing they are more designed with classical/jazz at hand which needs that higher end recessing slightly.

This is why we do the demo's .. in store initially.. and then at home to see what works for us and how it sounds in the comfort of our house.. this can expose things like boom from cupboard spaces, plasterboard walls.. against a tight hard bass from a solid brick wall for example..

I am glad that you have stuck with the thread and followed my guide to do a direct one speaker on each channel of the amp so you can directly hear the 2 against each other.

Bit dissapointed that the Gato has come second fiddle to the Sonus Faber for you.. but Sonus Faber have never been an easy speaker to beat! But at least now you have had the chance to compare properly.

As for the bass control with a down port... Get the speaker on a solid stone platform (paving slab with felt pads underneath to stop any scratching of surfaces) .. that will take out a huge chunk of lower end boom. Give the air something hard to hit to dissipate on.. instead of a carpet or a laminate.

As the Sonus appears to have won for you.. I have a real teaser now.... See if you can listen to the Olympica Nova II's .. You will have to go ex demo to afford these (against the Sonetto V new).. but they take the Sonetto to the next level on every extreme.. they are almost a "sealed" box design with their unique port design.. its some very clever engineering behind that design.. These are hard 4ohm speakers running down to 3.5ohm.. so you need high power, high current for them. The only thing that i would caution on the Nova's is a lift at 2.3kHz... it's audible... thats top end mid range resonance
Thank you for your input Orobas. I was actually just about to update my post before you, but my wife threw a baby in my arms.
I am a quick to judge but I don't make conclusion fast, I am always sceptical of my opinions. I preferred Sonetto V this morning, true, but I was still sceptical if I missed something.
As the little one woke up I gave the volume a notch up and listened to the speakers again. The fact from the morning remains. Sonetto V lifts the treble details and prove more air around the vocals, but the FM-30 has a far far stronger bass response and detail. In Gotye's "Somebody I Used To Know" I found a nice detailed drum with FM-30 that was totally gone on Sonetto V. I simple could not hear it.
So I might pull back on my favoritism on the Sonetto V and listened a bit more.
The treble details on the Sonetto V opens the soundstage but the bass details on FM-30 gives extra body to the songs.
Remember, I don't make any final conclusion before it is Monday :D

Ps.
I forgot to add. The difference in loudness is not big between the speakers. I would guess it is around 8 in volume difference in the Lyngdorf app.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
Thank you for your input Orobas. I was actually just about to update my post before you, but my wife threw a baby in my arms.
I am a quick to judge but I don't make conclusion fast, I am always sceptical of my opinions. I preferred Sonetto V this morning, true, but I was still sceptical if I missed something.
As the little one woke up I gave the volume a notch up and listened to the speakers again. The fact from the morning remains. Sonetto V lifts the treble details and prove more air around the vocals, but the FM-30 has a far far stronger bass response and detail. In Gotye's "Somebody I Used To Know" I found a nice detailed drum with FM-30 that was totally gone on Sonetto V. I simple could not hear it.
So I might pull back on my favoritism on the Sonetto V and listened a bit more.
The treble details on the Sonetto V opens the soundstage but the bass details on FM-30 gives extra body to the songs.
Remember, I don't make any final conclusion before it is Monday :D

Ps.
I forgot to add. The difference in loudness is not big between the speakers. I would guess it is around 8 in volume difference in the Lyngdorf app.
The lift on the treble and mids on the sonus like i said is partly due to the additional 3db of sensitivity advantage they have over the gato's and also due to sonus faber's re worked voicing on their speakers to more favour modern music and pop etc.

Try and get some paving slabs under the Sonettos and you will see just happens to the bass!

The Gato's open up with volume and is probably more genre specific in setup.. don't forget also that the Gato's are "time aligned" with their drivers... this is a very odd listening experience if you are not used to it as the sound from all the drivers hits you are the exact same time... as opposed to according to frequency (treble is fastest, bass is slowest due to wavelength)
 

Aslund

Active Member
The lift on the treble and mids on the sonus like i said is partly due to the additional 3db of sensitivity advantage they have over the gato's and also due to sonus faber's re worked voicing on their speakers to more favour modern music and pop etc.

Try and get some paving slabs under the Sonettos and you will see just happens to the bass!

The Gato's open up with volume and is probably more genre specific in setup.. don't forget also that the Gato's are "time aligned" with their drivers... this is a very odd listening experience if you are not used to it as the sound from all the drivers hits you are the exact same time... as opposed to according to frequency (treble is fastest, bass is slowest due to wavelength)
Is this fine?
 

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Orobas

Well-known Member

Aslund

Active Member
@Orobas
It might have help a bit on the bass. It is not like night and day difference.
But it did not change anything with the disappeared drum. I can still not hear it.
I manages to listen a bit more and the funny thing. When I switch between FM-30 and Sonetto V often then I feel entranced by the vocals on Sonetto V. When I listen to a track longer time then the FM-30 has the edge. The fuller body just provides more "meat" to the song. Then the Sonetto V suddenly seems bright in comparison.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
@Orobas
It might have help a bit on the bass. It is not like night and day difference.
But it did not change anything with the disappeared drum. I can still not hear it.
I manages to listen a bit more and the funny thing. When I switch between FM-30 and Sonetto V often then I feel entranced by the vocals on Sonetto V. When I listen to a track longer time then the FM-30 has the edge. The fuller body just provides more "meat" to the song. Then the Sonetto V suddenly seems bright in comparison.
The slab as you have seen "has" helped tighten things up due to it being resonance dead.. but you would need a full size slab really for it.. a 450 x 450mm min.... to a 610 x 610

This is why i said about being a close eyes, chill and listen demo rather than digging too deep. The Sonetto will always be brighter as its a lot more sensitive and its more modern music voiced.

Got a few teaser songs below to highlight this... when you compare the FM-30 to the Sonetto V

Steely Dan - Do it again .. Very mid top orientated

Yello - Beyond Mirror's is a very interesting echoed vocal speech track with deep low end.

Chris Rea - Looking for the Summer .. Deep voice, good clip and a fair mid top end.. with an underlying bass
 

Aslund

Active Member
The slab as you have seen "has" helped tighten things up due to it being resonance dead.. but you would need a full size slab really for it.. a 450 x 450mm min.... to a 610 x 610

This is why i said about being a close eyes, chill and listen demo rather than digging too deep. The Sonetto will always be brighter as its a lot more sensitive and its more modern music voiced.

Got a few teaser songs below to highlight this... when you compare the FM-30 to the Sonetto V

Steely Dan - Do it again .. Very mid top orientated

Yello - Beyond Mirror's is a very interesting echoed vocal speech track with deep low end.

Chris Rea - Looking for the Summer .. Deep voice, good clip and a fair mid top end.. with an underlying bass
Thanks for the songs. I gave them a quick listen and I must say, the FM-30 in superior to Sonetto V. Especially in Do It Again. The song became so bright that the Sonetto V lost footing and was in short passes without bass while the FM-30 still kept a slight hint of bass that kept the song composed.
During my home demo I have found a song that my wife like, which I like to use too. It has many natural instruments that is interesting to hear how the seperate from each other and how natural they sound.

I think I will setup FM-30 once again and listen to some song in full stereo and maybe also do some testing of the Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 against Gato Audio DIA-400S on the FM-30.

Edit:
The song that slowly turned things around was Phil Collins -Don't Loose My Number
I heard it in the car and thought the intro was superb. The FM-30 was so much than the Sonetto V that I investigated more :)
 
Last edited:

Aslund

Active Member
A small evening update.
My wife is talking loudly with family over phone so had an excuse to try to test the Gato Audio DIA-400S amplifier against Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 on the Gato Audio FM-30.
As with Sonetto V it seems DIA-400S is a bit brighter in the treble but it is very subtle. I will have to try again tomorrow at louder volume.
But one thing remains. The TDAI-1120 simply is superior to DIA-400S in separation of instruments when listening to music. But only when RoomPerfect is on.
I am quite amazed with the little devil.

Ps.
I read on another forum a rumer that Lyngdorf should be planning another amplifier thos year. Sitting between then TDAI-1120 and TDAI-3400.
Have anyone else heard this?
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
A small evening update.
My wife is talking loudly with family over phone so had an excuse to try to test the Gato Audio DIA-400S amplifier against Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 on the Gato Audio FM-30.
As with Sonetto V it seems DIA-400S is a bit brighter in the treble but it is very subtle. I will have to try again tomorrow at louder volume.
But one thing remains. The TDAI-1120 simply is superior to DIA-400S in separation of instruments when listening to music. But only when RoomPerfect is on.
I am quite amazed with the little devil.

Ps.
I read on another forum a rumer that Lyngdorf should be planning another amplifier thos year. Sitting between then TDAI-1120 and TDAI-3400.
Have anyone else heard this?
new to me on the Lyngdorf bringing out a new amp to sit between the 2.. especially when they binned the TDAI-2170 some time back...
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
It may be true. I haven’t read anything anywhere.

It is allegedly true that Lyngdorf are ready to release a whole set of new speakers this year.

But again, solid evidence is sparse.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
It may be true. I haven’t read anything anywhere.

It is allegedly true that Lyngdorf are ready to release a whole set of new speakers this year.

But again, solid evidence is sparse.
I know back in August of this year they were supposedly upgrading the MP-40 with a new HDMI 2.1 processor.. but that got suspended
 

gava

Active Member
A small evening update.
My wife is talking loudly with family over phone so had an excuse to try to test the Gato Audio DIA-400S amplifier against Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 on the Gato Audio FM-30.
As with Sonetto V it seems DIA-400S is a bit brighter in the treble but it is very subtle. I will have to try again tomorrow at louder volume.
But one thing remains. The TDAI-1120 simply is superior to DIA-400S in separation of instruments when listening to music. But only when RoomPerfect is on.
I am quite amazed with the little devil.

Ps.
I read on another forum a rumer that Lyngdorf should be planning another amplifier thos year. Sitting between then TDAI-1120 and TDAI-3400.
Have anyone else heard this?

It would seem that there should be room between 60W/8O and 350W/8O and possible a little more on the connectivity side. I mean why not 4 output channels for example instead of 2? Which would then allow for RP and adding any additional amplifier you wanted for your main speakers.

Actually to be honest a RP processor/preamp with 4-channel output by itself would be flexible enough to be rather awesome. Skip the onboard amplifier altogether and leave all the other features the same. Add amplification as required (or use active speakers/subs).
 

Aslund

Active Member
We will see what happens. I cross fingers to see a slightly more powerful amplifier with streaming like TDAI-1120 and TDAI-3400. Hopefully soon :D

I have entered the critical phase now where I listen a bit closer. When I listened to some songs today I noticed some slight booming in some songs while others where superb.
I then tried to position the speakers the Lyngdorf way. Close to the walls and positioned forward without any toe in.
After RoomPerfect was performed, I don't know if it is imagination, but I feel a lot more authority from the speakers. The bass is more punchy and powerful. The booming is reduced a lot. I still feel a bit unsure with some tracks if it is booming or simply a roundoff as the speaker can't go any deeper.
 

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Orobas

Well-known Member
We will see what happens. I cross fingers to see a slightly more powerful amplifier with streaming like TDAI-1120 and TDAI-3400. Hopefully soon :D

I have entered the critical phase now where I listen a bit closer. When I listened to some songs today I noticed some slight booming in some songs while others where superb.
I then tried to position the speakers the Lyngdorf way. Close to the walls and positioned forward without any toe in.
After RoomPerfect was performed, I don't know if it is imagination, but I feel a lot more authority from the speakers. The bass is more punchy and powerful. The booming is reduced a lot. I still feel a bit unsure with some tracks if it is booming or simply a roundoff as the speaker can't go any deeper.
Room perfect... don't forget sends tones to the room and listens to what is returned before adjusting the amp to isolate any of the feedback or boost what is missing.. It is "tuning" the amp's output to the room's acoustic footprint. This is why you are getting such good results with RP on against when it is off.
 

Aslund

Active Member
Room perfect... don't forget sends tones to the room and listens to what is returned before adjusting the amp to isolate any of the feedback or boost what is missing.. It is "tuning" the amp's output to the room's acoustic footprint. This is why you are getting such good results with RP on against when it is off.
Sorry for the confusion Orobas. I already had RoomPerfect on, but the speakers where like around 20-25cm away from the wall. With this I experienced some boomy bass in some tracks. It was improved by moving the speakers closer to the wall. Like 5cm.
 

andycc72

Active Member
Sorry for the confusion Orobas. I already had RoomPerfect on, but the speakers where like around 20-25cm away from the wall. With this I experienced some boomy bass in some tracks. It was improved by moving the speakers closer to the wall. Like 5cm.
I experienced the same thing. The thought of putting the speakers so close to the wall was so alien to me that I started off with my speakers (with RP activated) 50cm from the wall. When I tried it closed (10cm away) I noticed a definite improvement. P
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
I wonder if the reason RP works well with the speakers close to the wall is that with DSP it is more natural to reduce sounds than increase them I.e. Lower peaks rather than fill in dips. I found that I could hear the DSP (minidsp) working if using an additive peak but not then using a subtractive peak. Therefore by putting them close to the wall it artificially boosts the bass which RP then is able to bring back down more effectively than filling in dips if they are further away.

No idea if this is correct but may be one explanation.
 

Aslund

Active Member
I wonder if the reason RP works well with the speakers close to the wall is that with DSP it is more natural to reduce sounds than increase them I.e. Lower peaks rather than fill in dips. I found that I could hear the DSP (minidsp) working if using an additive peak but not then using a subtractive peak. Therefore by putting them close to the wall it artificially boosts the bass which RP then is able to bring back down more effectively than filling in dips if they are further away.

No idea if this is correct but may be one explanation.
It could be an idea. But I had boomy bass with my speakers 20cm out that did not get processed as well as when it was down to 5cm.
I wonder if it is a time alignment thing. That is at least my theory when I placed them close to the wall. Then the reflection almost immediately gets reflected. But there are most likely many people who knows better :)

I have to pack my speakers tomorrow but I hope to manage one more small experiment. My TV table between the speakers are just next to the speakers. I will try to remove it to avoid reflections and keep the closeness to the wall. Maybe even bring them a bit closer together so the distance to sidewalls are increased and see how it works.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
It could be an idea. But I had boomy bass with my speakers 20cm out that did not get processed as well as when it was down to 5cm.
I wonder if it is a time alignment thing. That is at least my theory when I placed them close to the wall. Then the reflection almost immediately gets reflected. But there are most likely many people who knows better :)

I have to pack my speakers tomorrow but I hope to manage one more small experiment. My TV table between the speakers are just next to the speakers. I will try to remove it to avoid reflections and keep the closeness to the wall. Maybe even bring them a bit closer together so the distance to sidewalls are increased and see how it works.

I’ve no doubt that getting rid of the table or getting one appreciably less wide will work well.

And getting the left speaker further away from the side wall will help too.

I’m assuming that RP has limits, which of course it must, and that making it ‘work’ less hard may bring improvement over and above the better positioning.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Sorry, as I said before it’s been awhile since I have read this tread. But how does the 1120/Lyngdorf sound with RP and off. Read few post above where you say the 1120 outperforms the gato amp, but only with RP on.

To sum up up does RP work?
 

Aslund

Active Member
Sorry, as I said before it’s been awhile since I have read this tread. But how does the 1120/Lyngdorf sound with RP and off. Read few post above where you say the 1120 outperforms the gato amp, but only with RP on.

To sum up up does RP work?
Yes. RoomPerfect definitely works.
The TDAI-1120 sounds very similar to DIA-400S without RoomPerfect. With RoomPerfect I notice a slight warmth and body to the vocals and most of all a much much better separation of the instruments.
Booming in bass is reduced in tracks too and when I moved the speakers up against the wall it gave me more authority and depth to the bass.
 

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