Choosing new speakers

Aslund

Active Member
This sounds like the excuse for poor engineering.

Had anyone ever said "our aim is to measure perfectly but we don't care about the sound"?

The whole point of good measurement is to build equipment that sounds great. You don't choose to optimise one at the expense of the other.

It's a false dichotomy and too often a refuge for scoundrels.
I speak with no deeper knowledge or any experience to rely on, but are you not a bit harsh? You assume that you can measure good sound and that a speaker has to "measure" perfectly. But does it has to? I love the sound of Sonetto V, but it has also a sound profile that is unlike anything I have heard from other speakers. I would guess some would call it colouration while I find it very natural.

To be honest I wouldn’t bother with Gato Audio, all those jumpers which can fine tune the sound to your liking, seems a waste of time if you ask me.

Just buy normal speakers, then place them correctly in the room.

Sonus Faber which has been mentioned before.
Well, Sonetto V is my top pick for now. So I am curious to hear if I will be just as much impressed with Gato Audio or more. With an investment in this price range I would like to test as many speakers as possible to avoid missing a golden goose :D

The amps and dac/preamps are gorgeous too.

I’d be happy to use them all with the bigger speakers and simply lob an RP’d digital feed into the dac/preamp (from a Lyngdorf 2170 perhaps) then into a pair of their impressively monstrous mono power amps.

Excellent industrial design for my taste.
With that many amplifiers I doubt I can hide the price that it would cost. It would also be far above my budget :D
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
I speak with no deeper knowledge or any experience to rely on, but are you not a bit harsh? You assume that you can measure good sound and that a speaker has to "measure" perfectly. But does it has to? I love the sound of Sonetto V, but it has also a sound profile that is unlike anything I have heard from other speakers. I would guess some would call it colouration while I find it very natural.


Well, Sonetto V is my top pick for now. So I am curious to hear if I will be just as much impressed with Gato Audio or more. With an investment in this price range I would like to test as many speakers as possible to avoid missing a golden goose :D


With that many amplifiers I doubt I can hide the price that it would cost. It would also be far above my budget :D
The most important thing here is that we are still only at a demo stage.. so things going wrong are a common occurrence at this point of selection.

If the Gato's prove to be good at the store.. then a home demo can follow... if the Gato's prove not to be as good, then so be it.. they are local to the OP so no real err... "time" lost there...

Just as a re-cap for other speakers worthy of a listen from my previous mentions..

Re Dynaudio .. the Contour 30i may be the Dynaudio's to aim for if you can demo them and get them at a ex demo price as they are just outside your budget. The Contour's are in a whole new different level of class compared to the Emit 50 and Evoke 30... you are actually in their decent range with the Contour and Confidence series

The only other Sonus Faber model i can think of being worthy is the Olympica Nova II ...another one out of your price range this one unless you can get a set of ex demo's .... but they are a formidable standard. What i don't like about them is their stability on the ground.. their feet are not that "planted" and as a result make them a bit unstable. They also need to be pulled out around a meter from the wall.. The sound though .. wow!
 

gava

Active Member
I speak with no deeper knowledge or any experience to rely on, but are you not a bit harsh? You assume that you can measure good sound and that a speaker has to "measure" perfectly. But does it has to? I love the sound of Sonetto V, but it has also a sound profile that is unlike anything I have heard from other speakers. I would guess some would call it colouration while I find it very natural.

Its a false dichotomy. Equipment that measures poorly performs poorly in controlled listening tests.

Our measurements are not sophisticated enough to cover every nuance of sound quality, and they can certainly be improved and become more sophisticated over time - and this is what research leads to.

To say that "we concentrate on sound and not measurements" can mean a number of things:
1. Our equipment is superbly engineered and measures as well as anything, but the current state of the art with regard to industry-standard measurements doesn't capture all the detail and we strive to make equipment that sounds better even if it measures the same as someone else's. One day we'll have more comprehensive measurements and will be able to demonstrate where our superiority lies.
2. We trust our ears more than science and we know best. You'll just have to trust us on this one. Oh and give us a pile of money too.

I have no quarrel with #1, but #2 raises all the red flags of snake-oil salesmen down the years.

I also have no quarrel with the idea that there is a sufficient level of performance beyond which sound quality is not the chief determining factor. Looks, brand, etc. are all perfectly valid selection criteria and no apology is necessary for preferring one speaker or brand over another. Get what makes you happy and may it bring you great joy - but surely we don't all have to play the game that you chose it because it SOUNDS better?

Is it possible that a manufacturer just so happens to have baked in a frequency response that compensates for some particular deficiency or personal preference that deviates from what most people prefer in controlled listening tests? Well sure it's POSSIBLE. It's pretty unlikely though. And that possibility becomes vanishingly small when you apply that peculiar performance characteristic across a wide range of musical recordings and genres and if you want other people to be able to listen to your system as well.

If you really do have some personal idiosyncrasy about how you like your system to sound then wouldn't you be better off using a system with a powerful and flexible parametric equalizer and a better set of speakers so that you can tune it that way when you want to and not be forced to use it that way ALL the time?

I have a personal idiosyncrasy - I think I am less sensitive to bass frequencies than average, so I like my bass boosted a bit more than average. I am getting on a bit, and even though I seem to have better than average hearing for my age, well I have gaps now @15-16Khz, weirdly I can hear around 17Khz and then lose it again at 18Khz and above. This doesn't mean I should search for a speaker to match this weird profile of mine - because it will change again in a couple of years and sound odd to my family.

I have no idea whether Gato speakers are brilliant or rubbish, or far more likely, well engineered and a solid choice. It's just that when I hear "We concentrate on how it sounds, not how it measures..."

Well as you can see I get a little triggered... :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
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ooctaviuss

Active Member
I would take Sonetto V If I wasn't got a good offer on Gold 300. Sonetto V has been my hot favorite in my dilemma.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
@Aslund so... at risk of jinxing.... lol... yesterday was the demo (or should have been) ... how was it and how did it go?
 

Aslund

Active Member
@Orobas
It was delayed because something came up at work. The positive is that I managed to listen to their speakers today, or rather the FM-30.

I must say that your description of the Gato Audio speakers was not on mark. I was promised speakers that had the Sonus Faber top and Dynaudio buttom. How disappointed I was initially.
The first speaker that was connected was the standmount FM-15. I am not used to standmounts maybe but I found the mid tones to be a little recessed. Then we switched to the FM-30. Damn I was surprised how hard the bass was from that speaker. Initially I found the bass a bit too much, but it was precise and nice. I warmed up to the bass as the session progressed.
I had some small talk with Frederik time to time where the audio was turned down a bit and I noticed the bass was still very present and alive even at lower volumes.
So what about the sound in general? I would say I was a bit disappointed when I listen to them initially. They sounded nice, no doubt about that, but compared to Sonetto V it was not so forward and agreesive in the top. I would not call them laidback, but the treble is clearly not as pronounced as Sonetto. I thought it would be the Sonetto that won the right to start the home audition, but then something happened. As I listened to the FM-30 I noticed here and there subtle notions in the music I have not heard before. It was quite interesting. The best describtion is that the Sonetto V takes the subtleties and present them to you. The FM-30 reveal them but let you discover them yourself.
It is an exact opposite approach from Sonus Faber that provides a stark contrast to present sound. Should you discover the music yourself or let the speaker present it for you?
I ended listening to track after track, to my surprice almost none of my tracks did Frederik know. :D I know many weird tracks.
I would say that there is beauty to FM-30 sound and it is very revealing. You can instantly hear if you listen to a good or bad recording, but honestly I did not mind it as much as I thought I would.
I honestly think I might give them a go at a home audition. I also like the Sonetto and their lovely tune, but depending on the tracks I played the bass could be a little too subtle. It is really a close call, especially since it is 1½ month ago I listened to the Sonetto. So I compare more about the feeling and impression that the speakers left me with. But the details on FM-30 seems a notch better than Sonetto V.
I did not have the chance to test the jumpers at the back because Frederik and his team was doing some testing so the crossover pcb was actually laying outside the cabinet. Reminds me about my own work :D

I learned quite a bit about the company. It is a very small company with 5 men employed. They source their drives from an external company made by old scan-speak engineers. The drives are then modified to their wishes.
They also use a ring-dome tweeter. That explains why it is so much bigger than normal (38mm). I know nothing about drives and their theory, but I just remember from the interview with the R&D manager from Sonus Faber. He explained that they also used ring-dome tweeters in the past but went away from them again because of poor spreading. So I am just wondering if the sound is hampered by standing up or moving away from the sweet spot.
Again without knowing speaker internals I was told the jumpers changes the impedance of a resistor in the crossover network. The changes will be subtle but audible.
I was also curious how they test speakers being such a small speaker and he mentioned tools to capture sound few milliseconds after release so the profile can be made without the need for sounddamped chambers, but they also had measurements inside such a place.
They target an almost flat frequency curve too.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
@Orobas
It was delayed because something came up at work. The positive is that I managed to listen to their speakers today, or rather the FM-30.

I must say that your description of the Gato Audio speakers was not on mark. I was promised speakers that had the Sonus Faber top and Dynaudio buttom. How disappointed I was initially.
The first speaker that was connected was the standmount FM-15. I am not used to standmounts maybe but I found the mid tones to be a little recessed. Then we switched to the FM-30. Damn I was surprised how hard the bass was from that speaker. Initially I found the bass a bit too much, but it was precise and nice. I warmed up to the bass as the session progressed.
I had some small talk with Frederik time to time where the audio was turned down a bit and I noticed the bass was still very present and alive even at lower volumes.
So what about the sound in general? I would say I was a bit disappointed when I listen to them initially. They sounded nice, no doubt about that, but compared to Sonetto V it was not so forward and agreesive in the top. I would not call them laidback, but the treble is clearly not as pronounced as Sonetto. I thought it would be the Sonetto that won the right to start the home audition, but then something happened. As I listened to the FM-30 I noticed here and there subtle notions in the music I have not heard before. It was quite interesting. The best describtion is that the Sonetto V takes the subtleties and present them to you. The FM-30 reveal them but let you discover them yourself.
It is an exact opposite approach from Sonus Faber that provides a stark contrast to present sound. Should you discover the music yourself or let the speaker present it for you?
I ended listening to track after track, to my surprice almost none of my tracks did Frederik know. :D I know many weird tracks.
I would say that there is beauty to FM-30 sound and it is very revealing. You can instantly hear if you listen to a good or bad recording, but honestly I did not mind it as much as I thought I would.
I honestly think I might give them a go at a home audition. I also like the Sonetto and their lovely tune, but depending on the tracks I played the bass could be a little too subtle. It is really a close call, especially since it is 1½ month ago I listened to the Sonetto. So I compare more about the feeling and impression that the speakers left me with. But the details on FM-30 seems a notch better than Sonetto V.
I did not have the chance to test the jumpers at the back because Frederik and his team was doing some testing so the crossover pcb was actually laying outside the cabinet. Reminds me about my own work :D

I learned quite a bit about the company. It is a very small company with 5 men employed. They source their drives from an external company made by old scan-speak engineers. The drives are then modified to their wishes.
They also use a ring-dome tweeter. That explains why it is so much bigger than normal (38mm). I know nothing about drives and their theory, but I just remember from the interview with the R&D manager from Sonus Faber. He explained that they also used ring-dome tweeters in the past but went away from them again because of poor spreading. So I am just wondering if the sound is hampered by standing up or moving away from the sweet spot.
Again without knowing speaker internals I was told the jumpers changes the impedance of a resistor in the crossover network. The changes will be subtle but audible.
I was also curious how they test speakers being such a small speaker and he mentioned tools to capture sound few milliseconds after release so the profile can be made without the need for sounddamped chambers, but they also had measurements inside such a place.
They target an almost flat frequency curve too.
@Aslund Firstly a huge thanks for reporting back in depth!

As for the Gato's .. as I have mentioned.. my comments on them have been based solely on my personal experience/assessment. You may find them to be the best thing since sliced bread or you may find them to be no better than the Sonetta III / V when you physically hear them.

As such you have found them to be quite different in some areas.. but some of my notes were spot on

so.. where did my thoughts stack up..

(1) I described them as an airy sonus with a touch of the Dynaudio bottom end - I got the airy part right.. just that bass was a bit hard for you initially..

(2) floorstander that doesnt boom or get too muddy down in the bass area whilst still retaining that punch airy sound - The bass as you said was hard.. but precise which you warmed up too.. most importantly, the bass was there at low volume.

(3) I mentioned re the Sonetto II standmount speakers is that they are a very detailed speaker but very forward on that treble which needs a very careful amp partnership to avoid it becoming aggressive on the ears.
BUT .. and this is why i put the FM-30 re the V .. is the frequency response.. the FM-30 is specced 37Hz - 35kHz (give or take the +/-3db) .. the V is 38Hz - 25kHz and the III is only 42Hz - 25kHz (again with the give or take +/-3db) The FM-30 will sound alot cleaner at top end and possibly a bit forward due to that extended response

You confirmed this with the FM-30 that the treble wasnt as harsh as the V unless i misread the last part of that .. but.. i did state on the other comment that they may be a bit forward due to the FM-30's extended treble response, which if that was the case.. i was on the ball!

Gato are very revealing and ruthless yes. High end speakers like that from these small teams are very often brutal with recordings and need serious amp/source thrown at them... (i did note that Gato was designed with their own amps in mind)

I am glad, for the most part, my thoughts were on the ball for you.. and that you got to listen to them and that you have considered possibly a home demo. They are a unique speaker with a dedicated market and hope that I have for now.. given you something to ponder over!!
 

ooctaviuss

Active Member
Gold 300 are very revealing speakers too. But I like it so much. Now I'm still finding new tones in the music. It's true they need better amp also FM-30 will need stronger amp. I'm playing with idea to buy amp Kinki Studio EX-M1 very positive reviews almost all.

 

Aslund

Active Member
@Orobas
Thats the problem with describing audio. I had a slightly different expectation from what you wrote. But nevermind. They where worth the wait. I would not call the Sonetto V treble harsh but rather pronounced. It is not the same with FM-30.
There are many factors to a speaker, especially room. But when I compare FM-30 and Sonetto V from the two listen sessions I find FM-30 are a more complete speaker that is perfectly balanced. Sonetto V had some recession in bass and some tracks where the bass was not as nice sounding. Maybe because of the room combined with bigger bass elements.
The sound of FM-30 feels more premium, which might due to them being very revealing. Sonetto V feels more enjoyable initially but with FM-30 you can suddenly rediscover tracks.
I had two previous revelation like this. The first was when I first bought my Dali 850 + NAD 114/216 gear. The previous owner brought it to me (I was a student without car). He added a pair of simple copper cables as speaker cables.
When I put it together the treble was very very harsh.
I started some research and found some people had success with YYW Speaker cables. Premium cable at the fraction of the cost. I was sceptical but gave it a try. Wauw. It was a totally different sound. It really impressed me. The treble was not harsh anymore and the sound proved noticeable.
The second revelation was changing from a PC soundcard to DacMagic. I had a second hand, but very expensive Audigy 4 pro soundcard connected to my speakers. I then ordered the DacMagic, I can not remember why, but it was a game changer. Tones and sounds I never heard before opened up in my tracks.
With FM-30 I suddenly have a third revelation. Sonetto is a evolution, FM-30 revolution.

Now I might have gone a bit off track. Sorry.
You mention the FM-30 needs a serious amp. Is Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 such an amp?

@ooctaviuss
I understand you happiness and I am very pleased to hear that you still love your purchase. Again, a big congratulations to you.
When I read reviews it is always mentioned as a slight negative that a speaker is revealing. Like a warning sign. But I find it very intriguing that you can hear detaila never heard or noticed before.
We heard Goldfinger from Shirley Bassey. It was clear it was an old recording from a different time, but then what? The sound was still excellent and I heard new details that I never heard before.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
@Orobas
Thats the problem with describing audio. I had a slightly different expectation from what you wrote. But nevermind. They where worth the wait. I would not call the Sonetto V treble harsh but rather pronounced. It is not the same with FM-30.
There are many factors to a speaker, especially room. But when I compare FM-30 and Sonetto V from the two listen sessions I find FM-30 are a more complete speaker that is perfectly balanced. Sonetto V had some recession in bass and some tracks where the bass was not as nice sounding. Maybe because of the room combined with bigger bass elements.
The sound of FM-30 feels more premium, which might due to them being very revealing. Sonetto V feels more enjoyable initially but with FM-30 you can suddenly rediscover tracks.
I had two previous revelation like this. The first was when I first bought my Dali 850 + NAD 114/216 gear. The previous owner brought it to me (I was a student without car). He added a pair of simple copper cables as speaker cables.
When I put it together the treble was very very harsh.
I started some research and found some people had success with YYW Speaker cables. Premium cable at the fraction of the cost. I was sceptical but gave it a try. Wauw. It was a totally different sound. It really impressed me. The treble was not harsh anymore and the sound proved noticeable.
The second revelation was changing from a PC soundcard to DacMagic. I had a second hand, but very expensive Audigy 4 pro soundcard connected to my speakers. I then ordered the DacMagic, I can not remember why, but it was a game changer. Tones and sounds I never heard before opened up in my tracks.
With FM-30 I suddenly have a third revelation. Sonetto is a evolution, FM-30 revolution.

Now I might have gone a bit off track. Sorry.
You mention the FM-30 needs a serious amp. Is Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 such an amp?

@ooctaviuss
I understand you happiness and I am very pleased to hear that you still love your purchase. Again, a big congratulations to you.
When I read reviews it is always mentioned as a slight negative that a speaker is revealing. Like a warning sign. But I find it very intriguing that you can hear detaila never heard or noticed before.
We heard Goldfinger from Shirley Bassey. It was clear it was an old recording from a different time, but then what? The sound was still excellent and I heard new details that I never heard before.
Take out the room perfect electronics on that 1120 ... and you have at best somewhere around a £1200 (1300 euros) amp... (with the room perfect .. it retails at £2000 (2,315 euros)
By comparison.. Gato's own AMP-150 AE is about 4000 euros (£3500) and their el cheapo DIA-250S (which is taylor made for their speakers) is 2,500 euros (£2150)

The Naim Supernait 3 for example which is in my answer #46 on page 2 of this thread which they have on the FM-30 is £3500 (4000 euro)... The baby Musical Fidelity M5si is £1800 (2000 euro)
These are just straight forward integrateds.

Your 1120 has the power just about on the 4ohm tap.. i didnt have any issues in the power department (Naim's supernait 3 is 130W into 4ohm) but the 1120 is the baby of the Lyngdorf family... it may require the SAD2400 poweramp being added... or upscaling to the 2170 to get a better handle on the speakers.. i just don't know.. i am not familiar with Lyngdorf. especially how it integrates with the FM speakers..

I know if i wanted to swap my Dynaudios to the FM-15 standmounts (which i may do in the new year).. although my roksan has more than enough power for them.. i would realistically have to up my Kandy KA1 mkiii to the Caspian M2 to get the proper control i need.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
@Aslund, Goldfinger is an excellent track to test the treble response when comparing speakers.

And also female vocals. Did you like the tambourine?
 

Aslund

Active Member
Take out the room perfect electronics on that 1120 ... and you have at best somewhere around a £1200 (1300 euros) amp... (with the room perfect .. it retails at £2000 (2,315 euros)
By comparison.. Gato's own AMP-150 AE is about 4000 euros (£3500) and their el cheapo DIA-250S (which is taylor made for their speakers) is 2,500 euros (£2150)

The Naim Supernait 3 for example which is in my answer #46 on page 2 of this thread which they have on the FM-30 is £3500 (4000 euro)... The baby Musical Fidelity M5si is £1800 (2000 euro)
These are just straight forward integrateds.

Your 1120 has the power just about on the 4ohm tap.. i didnt have any issues in the power department (Naim's supernait 3 is 130W into 4ohm) but the 1120 is the baby of the Lyngdorf family... it may require the SAD2400 poweramp being added... or upscaling to the 2170 to get a better handle on the speakers.. i just don't know.. i am not familiar with Lyngdorf. especially how it integrates with the FM speakers..

I know if i wanted to swap my Dynaudios to the FM-15 standmounts (which i may do in the new year).. although my roksan has more than enough power for them.. i would realistically have to up my Kandy KA1 mkiii to the Caspian M2 to get the proper control i need.
Just to clear up the confusion. I do not own the TDAI-1120. I just borrowed it for a single weekend :)
The 2170 might provide more wattage, but the maximum current is the same 1120, 30A.
I might ask Gato what the current delivery is on their amplifiers.
 

Aslund

Active Member
@Aslund, Goldfinger is an excellent track to test the treble response when comparing speakers.

And also female vocals. Did you like the tambourine?
I sadly can not remember details from that song. But I was really impressed with the performance. Never heard the song as good as that before.

Edit:
Think a bit I remember to hear the tambourine as nicely seperated and clear on the track.
 
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Orobas

Well-known Member
Just to clear up the confusion. I do not own the TDAI-1120. I just borrowed it for a single weekend :)
The 2170 might provide more wattage, but the maximum current is the same 1120, 30A.
I might ask Gato what the current delivery is on their amplifiers.
Ah,..... I thought you owned the Lyngdorf!

This changes alot then if you have a different amp! ..

The Gato's cheap amp .. the DIA-250S shoves out 250W/channel into 8ohm and 500W/channel into 4ohm! .. Power consumption at max load is 1000W.
just be aware the DIA-250S is a Class D amp .. and it has a max protected current of 20.7A (thanks to Paul Messenger at Hifinews for his ever spot on lab measurements)
Gato Audio DIA-250S NPM Amplifier/Network DAC Lab Report

The Lyngdorf 2170 is 170w/channel at 4ohm at max 30A :)
 

Aslund

Active Member
Ah,..... I thought you owned the Lyngdorf!

This changes alot then if you have a different amp! ..

The Gato's cheap amp .. the DIA-250S shoves out 250W/channel into 8ohm and 500W/channel into 4ohm! .. Power consumption at max load is 1000W.
just be aware the DIA-250S is a Class D amp .. and it has a max protected current of 20.7A (thanks to Paul Messenger at Hifinews for his ever spot on lab measurements)
Gato Audio DIA-250S NPM Amplifier/Network DAC Lab Report

The Lyngdorf 2170 is 170w/channel at 4ohm at max 30A :)
The problem is here that I seek an amplifier that has both HDMI Arc and Chromecast. In my research I found only two amplifiers that satisfied this requirement. Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 and Cambridge Audio Evo 75/150.
I don't really listen to music very very load and I wonder why I should get the TDAI-2170 instead of TDAI-1120 when I loose Chromecast without getting more current but the wattage I properly don't need. Am I missing something?
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
The problem is here that I seek an amplifier that has both HDMI Arc and Chromecast. In my research I found only two amplifiers that satisfied this requirement. Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 and Cambridge Audio Evo 75/150.
I don't really listen to music very very load and I wonder why I should get the TDAI-2170 instead of TDAI-1120 when I loose Chromecast without getting more current but the wattage I properly don't need. Am I missing something?
I have never been an advocate of using "AV" tech for music personally. I personally would go down the route of getting a network streamer as a seperate unit (like a Node2i or a raspberry pi4 "properly programmed") with a dedicated integrated amp rather than an "all in one"

I'm lucky with my setup in that it is all hooked up to my pc for music and film (i have a bluray and a seperate dvd tray)... i have a smartv which i can chromecast too.. and has an ethernet in for network. It's not "hifi" but for me it works. So i use my pc for all music formats.. which feeds my roksan and films.. just go straight from the graphics card to the hdmi arc in on tv.. and the thx soundcard on my pc handles the sound.

As you are looking to go a lot deeper than what I am comfortable with.. with regards to my knowledge and experience, I will have to bow out of this thread here sadly and turn it over to more network oriented music buffs
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
The problem is here that I seek an amplifier that has both HDMI Arc and Chromecast. In my research I found only two amplifiers that satisfied this requirement. Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 and Cambridge Audio Evo 75/150.
I don't really listen to music very very load and I wonder why I should get the TDAI-2170 instead of TDAI-1120 when I loose Chromecast without getting more current but the wattage I properly don't need. Am I missing something?

The Lyngdorf 2170 has been discontinued. There are currently only two stereo amps available in their range, the 1120 and 3400. Both support streaming options, but there are some differences.
 

Aslund

Active Member
I have never been an advocate of using "AV" tech for music personally. I personally would go down the route of getting a network streamer as a seperate unit (like a Node2i or a raspberry pi4 "properly programmed") with a dedicated integrated amp rather than an "all in one"

I'm lucky with my setup in that it is all hooked up to my pc for music and film (i have a bluray and a seperate dvd tray)... i have a smartv which i can chromecast too.. and has an ethernet in for network. It's not "hifi" but for me it works. So i use my pc for all music formats.. which feeds my roksan and films.. just go straight from the graphics card to the hdmi arc in on tv.. and the thx soundcard on my pc handles the sound.

As you are looking to go a lot deeper than what I am comfortable with.. with regards to my knowledge and experience, I will have to bow out of this thread here sadly and turn it over to more network oriented music buffs

I am sorry if I have managed to offend you @Orobas. I have deep appreciations for your advice so far. Without you I would never have heard about Gato Audio.
My problem is that I can not, no matter how much I have tried, managed to find a network stream that combines Chromecast support (I have a Youtube Premium subscription, that includes Youtube Music) and HDMI Arc ( I like to control sound and TV with a single remote, it might be a luxury thing).
It is funny. You can easily find networks streams with HDMI Arc or Chromecast. I am beyond puzzled on why no one wants to combine both into a streamer.
I have no experience with the waste amount of amplifiers that are around, but I was quite impressed with Lyngdorf's RoomPerfect. But that leaves me with TDAI-1120 or TDAI-3400. Both are all-in-one systems.
I could buy a Bluesound Node. They are quite cheap but add 150 euro pr. year in subscription for e.g. Tidal. I would still have to add an amplifier that is other than Lyngdorf. Would it better with another amplifier and loose RoomPerfect?
I have finally managed to find the speaker but I am very confused about what amplifier to choose. I like the detail and resolution of the Gato FM-30 and I like to support the speakers instead of fight their characteristics.

I have separate streamer this one https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/open...for-raspberry-pi-4-dac-es9038q2m-p-15148.html it has quite good DAC ES9038Q2M and sounds to me very nice. I like amp stand alone and rather buy another components like DAC,Streamer or Phono....
Thank you for the input @ooctaviuss . But I am hoping to includes Chromecast and HDMI Arc into an amplifer or preamplifier. It might be a lost cause but I am just surprised no one has made that combination yet.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
I am sorry if I have managed to offend you @Orobas. I have deep appreciations for your advice so far. Without you I would never have heard about Gato Audio.
My problem is that I can not, no matter how much I have tried, managed to find a network stream that combines Chromecast support (I have a Youtube Premium subscription, that includes Youtube Music) and HDMI Arc ( I like to control sound and TV with a single remote, it might be a luxury thing).
It is funny. You can easily find networks streams with HDMI Arc or Chromecast. I am beyond puzzled on why no one wants to combine both into a streamer.
I have no experience with the waste amount of amplifiers that are around, but I was quite impressed with Lyngdorf's RoomPerfect. But that leaves me with TDAI-1120 or TDAI-3400. Both are all-in-one systems.
I could buy a Bluesound Node. They are quite cheap but add 150 euro pr. year in subscription for e.g. Tidal. I would still have to add an amplifier that is other than Lyngdorf. Would it better with another amplifier and loose RoomPerfect?
I have finally managed to find the speaker but I am very confused about what amplifier to choose. I like the detail and resolution of the Gato FM-30 and I like to support the speakers instead of fight their characteristics.


Thank you for the input @ooctaviuss . But I am hoping to includes Chromecast and HDMI Arc into an amplifer or preamplifier. It might be a lost cause but I am just surprised no one has made that combination yet.
You haven't offended me , no! I am just saying re the more in-depth stuff is out of my league and knowledge.

I prefer to have a dedicated source for each part of my music rather than an all in one box. Less parts in one area to go wrong.. if something isn't right you are stuck with an all in one... and may lose it for some time on a repair for example. With dedicated separate units, you can mix and match and tailor a system how you want it.. If one thing goes down... then only that one item is out of commission and not the whole system.

A dedicated amp and a dedicated network streamer together is much better than an all in one for the same price. Same with an AV box.. to play music and get hifi sound.. you should get one with an AV bypass and port it to a dedicated hifi amp.. A dedicated hifi integrated will always outperform an AV for music due to how they are built.. an AV is built for movies, speech and sound effect peaks at the end of the day.

I have a dedicated mid range amp.. purist in its approach.. i have a monitor quality stand mount and a hand built sub dialled in manually to my speakers.. not via electronics. it's a very simple basic system.

Where my money is.. is with my hand built tower pc where i was able to specify the best components for my needs that i was able to afford... a thx certified sound card.. a high end 2070 super graphics card.. a high end decent 8 core Ryzen and 32gb of fast ddr4 ram with a top end mobo.

I could have just gone and bought a brand name desktop.. with everything inside.. but it has nothing on my hand built system.. Just a flashy case and a brand name
 

Aslund

Active Member
I am still waiting to arrange a home demo of the Gato Audio FM30.
Meanwhile I have come across a pair of Larsen 8.2 speaker second hand and in almost mint condition for 2000 euro.
Does anyone know anything about them?
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
I am still waiting to arrange a home demo of the Gato Audio FM30.
Meanwhile I have come across a pair of Larsen 8.2 speaker second hand and in almost mint condition for 2000 euro.
Does anyone know anything about them?
I've only seen the 8's... but not the 8.2. they are weird looking as anything!!! Not heard them though.. Be some strange listening with those angles. I think the Swedish designer was drunk at the time.. :beer::beer:
617larson.2.jpg
 

gava

Active Member
If love to hear some.
 

andycc72

Active Member
Take out the room perfect electronics on that 1120 ... and you have at best somewhere around a £1200 (1300 euros) amp... (with the room perfect .. it retails at £2000 (2,315 euros)
By comparison.. Gato's own AMP-150 AE is about 4000 euros (£3500) and their el cheapo DIA-250S (which is taylor made for their speakers) is 2,500 euros (£2150)

The Naim Supernait 3 for example which is in my answer #46 on page 2 of this thread which they have on the FM-30 is £3500 (4000 euro)... The baby Musical Fidelity M5si is £1800 (2000 euro)
These are just straight forward integrateds.

Your 1120 has the power just about on the 4ohm tap.. i didnt have any issues in the power department (Naim's supernait 3 is 130W into 4ohm) but the 1120 is the baby of the Lyngdorf family... it may require the SAD2400 poweramp being added... or upscaling to the 2170 to get a better handle on the speakers.. i just don't know.. i am not familiar with Lyngdorf. especially how it integrates with the FM speakers..

I know if i wanted to swap my Dynaudios to the FM-15 standmounts (which i may do in the new year).. although my roksan has more than enough power for them.. i would realistically have to up my Kandy KA1 mkiii to the Caspian M2 to get the proper control i need.
How did you come to the conclusion that with RP removed the 1120 is £1200 amp??

Genuine question as I’m interested in how you would know this and what you based it on. My knowledge is limited at best so an genuinely interested.
 

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