Choosing new speakers

DT79

Distinguished Member
Did I mention that the TDAI-1120 lacks power? I do write it seems powerful enough.
Consciously I know everything seems fine but for the last 15 years I had a setup (Dali 850 + NAD 114/216), where the slightest turn on the knob would make music blast out of the speaker. I never had the knob higher than half way and with the TDAI-1120 it has to be more than half way for a decent volume level. It is a mental barrier that is not removed just like that. Damn human behaviour is tricky. Denial is easy and acceptance is hard. :D
Ok, you’ve hit the nail on the head there. I don’t think Lyngdorf have done a helpful thing by putting the lights round the edge of the volume control on the 1120, it just gives people a visual link to where the volume control is between min and max, and as you say it is hard to break the perception of what that means based on experiences of old school analogue potentiometers.
 

ooctaviuss

Active Member
I would try more powerful amplifier. I know it because I had yamaha as701 paired to Gold 300. The result was not as I expected. Then I change it for kinki ex-m1+ and there I can feel more control on bass probably your new spekares needs beter amp.
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
Sorry for not really addressing you post before @Steve356. I really appreciate your effort during my last day of trial and your many good inputs. I am especially happy that you listened to the track and faced your family deep concern for your mental well-being :)
It help a lot knowing that the problem was not the speakers but the recording.

The Billie Eillish was a really good tester and it actually sounded fantastic eventhough there was the slight hint of boomy sound. When I did my last test where the speaker where pulled further out, then the bass recessed a bit and it sounded like the bass was a bit like "whoop whoop".

Your other album I sadly did not get a chance to listen to. But could you please detail which 4 tracks you normally use? Thanks.

Glad it helped a bit. The tracks I use from The Hunter by Jennifer Warnes are in order of preference

Track 2 - Easy to follow bass line and great vocals. You should not hear any boominess in the bass and vocals should be dead centre between the speakers.

Track 8 - Very deep bass drum and again easy to follow bass guitar lines. If I have RP turned off in my system, the bass impact on the first few drum hits sounds muddy, lacks depth and can be overpowering. With RP on, the drum hits have tremendous impact and depth. Again, vocals should be dead centre.

Track 9 - Great dynamics and should be no boom in the bass.

Track 1 - This one has a lot of bass (synthesiser driven I think). This track can be really boomy on a lot of systems. The bass lines are especially clear even on headphones, but you should be able to hear the melody in the bass on a clear system. To me, like the Billie Eillish song, it's a good example of a song that deliberately has very powerful bass to drive the song along.

Hope this helps.
 

Aslund

Active Member
Hi Aslund!

Firstly apologies for the opposing thoughts on the subwoofer use to what Paul mentioned..

Despite having an REL sub myself.. this is only used for films for me.. I very very rarely use it for music. My own personal opinion is leave the music to the amp and speakers and i must stress.. this is "just my preference"

Re the slab... again... this was just a thought re the bass control you did with the Sonetto... a slab will always help "a little" with the bass (although results will vary speaker to speaker) the slab should always be big enough to provide a solid platform for the speaker with plenty of clearance for the feet to provide stability (rather than the feet right on the edge of the slab where they could be knocked off)

So yes.. that would be fine ("if" you wanted to go the extra mile) please note that ... "IF" .. Do not expect major results but it might help tighten things.. if in doubt.. leave it out and re-visit later to see if one is needed.
You have nothing to apologise for @Orobas . Personally I know nothing better then when people much more knowledgeable than me disagree. Then it is like a gold mine spurring out information :D
The fact just remains that it is quite effortless for me to borrow a subwoofer and test it. At least I will gain the experience. I have spend the last couple of days thinking about the approach and I feel drawn to the Lyngdorf BW-2 subwoofer. I don't need the deepest of bass and it can enjoy a position against a brick wall at the left wall (see picture). I only wonder if the radiator will disturb it noticeably.
 

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Aslund

Active Member
I would try more powerful amplifier. I know it because I had yamaha as701 paired to Gold 300. The result was not as I expected. Then I change it for kinki ex-m1+ and there I can feel more control on bass probably your new spekares needs beter amp.
Thank you for your input @ooctaviuss . I did actually try a more powerful amplifier. I had the Gato Audio DIA-400S with me together with Lyngdorf TDAI-1120. Eventhough the DIA-400S is 333% more powerful I never felt I missed any power on TDAI-1120. It seems there is a lot of strength behind the TDAI-1120.

Glad it helped a bit. The tracks I use from The Hunter by Jennifer Warnes are in order of preference

Track 2 - Easy to follow bass line and great vocals. You should not hear any boominess in the bass and vocals should be dead centre between the speakers.

Track 8 - Very deep bass drum and again easy to follow bass guitar lines. If I have RP turned off in my system, the bass impact on the first few drum hits sounds muddy, lacks depth and can be overpowering. With RP on, the drum hits have tremendous impact and depth. Again, vocals should be dead centre.

Track 9 - Great dynamics and should be no boom in the bass.

Track 1 - This one has a lot of bass (synthesiser driven I think). This track can be really boomy on a lot of systems. The bass lines are especially clear even on headphones, but you should be able to hear the melody in the bass on a clear system. To me, like the Billie Eillish song, it's a good example of a song that deliberately has very powerful bass to drive the song along.

Hope this helps.
Thank you for detailee explanation. I will test it out when the system is bought :)
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
You have nothing to apologise for @Orobas . Personally I know nothing better then when people much more knowledgeable than me disagree. Then it is like a gold mine spurring out information :D
The fact just remains that it is quite effortless for me to borrow a subwoofer and test it. At least I will gain the experience. I have spend the last couple of days thinking about the approach and I feel drawn to the Lyngdorf BW-2 subwoofer. I don't need the deepest of bass and it can enjoy a position against a brick wall at the left wall (see picture). I only wonder if the radiator will disturb it noticeably.
Sub bass is mono... so no the radiator wont really affect it.. the only thing i would watch for is temperature.. you dont really want electrics sat on/next to a hot radiator :)
 

Aslund

Active Member
Hello everyone

What a day, what a day.
So I have anxiously been hoping for any good sales during Black Friday/Black Week (Some shops have sale the whole week and not just Friday).
Until then I have been doing something so horrible, so atrocious, so disgusting that I did not dare to ask for any advice here..... I have been looking and researching for speaker cables.
Please put down your pitchforks, put out your torches and listen :)
First of all I needed a new cable with spades for the speaker side. When I had the FM-30 home for demo, then they sounded the best together with RoomPerfect when they where close to the wall, I mean very close.

If you look at the picture above, then you will see how close my plugs are to the wall. I do not know yet if the speakers needs to be moved closer to the wall or a little bit further out, but to keep the flexibility, then I prefer spades. Another things is the length, it is a trivial thing, but when I am anyway spending these amount of money, I would like things to be nice and tidy too.

In the above picture you see the TDAI-1120 and FM-30 connected to my 2.5m speaker cable. Clearly way too long. So I was looking at something shorter.
So where to get reliable information regarding speaker cables? My first thought was Gato Audio. They make their own speakers and amplifiers, so they must surely know what works and more importantly, if it makes sense to choose more expensive cables.
And I got an answer. Gato Audio has good connections to WireWorld. I honestly do not know if they use WireWorld cables inside their speakers, but I would not be surprised if they do. But I do know they use WireWorld for presentations and demoes.
So I actually got an offer to buy a WireWorld speaker cable together with the FM-30 for a reasonable price. I will skip the details, but I fought with myself about how high I should go.
The little boy inside of me jumped joyfully around the WireWorld Eclipse 8, but it is really an expensive cable and after much deliberation I settled on Equinox 8 instead. 2m long with bi-wire.
On futureshop.co.uk a pair of 2m bi-wire Equinox 8 cost 840£ or around 990€. The FM-30 costs 3995€.
Gato Audio does not run any Black Friday deals, but I could no help myself to be a bit cocky and ask if there was any Black Friday deals I had missed :)
A little note, we Danes are horrible, simply horrible at haggling. Whenever I sell anything second hand, most people pay full price without any attempt to haggle. Luckily I am only half Danish :D
Honestly, to my surprise, I got a very good offer. Speaker and cables for 4300€, I could not resist the deal and I immediately said yes. So the speakers should already be ready for pick up next week :D.

Empowered by the deal I went to HifiKlubben to see if I could haggle on the TDAI-1120. Sadly there where no official sale on the TDAI-1120, so I had to rely on my wits and good looks (My beard has grown too long, so I resemble more of a Yeti than human).
My local shop offered me a measly 67€ discount on a TDAI-1120, which had been open and taken out by another owner.
For 67€ I would rather have it brand new. Discouraged I went to another HifiKlubben 20min from where I live. The response was the same, 67€ discount, nothing more. But at least it was a brand new model, so I took the deal.

Earlier this week I also bought the UMIK-1 USB microphone for 107€. Down from 155€. It is bought from a small independent HiFi company that I like to support. Another shop had it 4€ cheaper.

So in the end, without actually planning it, I ended up buying everything and looking forward to hook it up next week.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Even for speakers and amps of the calibre you now have, €7 or 8 a metre is more than good enough. 2.5 mm or, being greedy, 4mm copper is all that’s ever needed.


I’m delighted you’ve finally got everything you need.

I’m looking forward to a report once you’ve settled down with it all. 👍
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ps, that’s also a great price for the UMIK.

A little perseverance with REW and you’ll be flying... hiring yourself out as a hifi set up guru 👍
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
Even for speakers and amps of the calibre you now have, €7 or 8 a metre is more than good enough. 2.5 mm or, being greedy, 4mm copper is all that’s ever needed.


I’m delighted you’ve finally got everything you need.

I’m looking forward to a report once you’ve settled down with it all. 👍
Totally agree with @Paul7777x here.. I either use 5mm silver plate stuff.. or my own handmade monster cables as shown in my signature on my Roksan... that shunts 220w/c into my Dynaudios..... Only difference i hear with my 6181Y's is on the bass and only when i have my amp cranked to about 2/3'rds power... anything under that (sensible volume) i can't hear the difference between my 6181Y's (16mm / £30 or about 38 euros for 2 x 2.5m cable sets) and the Cambridge Audio Ultra 100's (cost me a tenner / 13 eurosish... for the 2 x 5m sets)
 

Aslund

Active Member
@Paul7777x @Orobas
Thanks you for your inputs. I know you have the best of intentions.
I really have enjoyed your support throughout this thread and I wish to end it on a high note.
The reason I say this is because I don't share your experience. I don't believe those who says that cables makes a night and day difference, but I believe it does make a difference from my own experience.
The question for me how much I am willing to pay for this believe. How much am I willing to pay for peace of mind.
Before my search I set it to 5% of system price. FM-30 is 4000€ and TDAI-1120 is 2000€. This gives 300€ for a pair of speaker cables, which I managed to hit as accurately as you can.
Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong. Most importantly for me is that I have peace of mind. Secondly, at the price I got the cable, I have a good chance to sell it with no loss.
So if you are right and I am wrong, then no harm is done. Oppositely, if I invest in cheaper cables now and ignore the offer at hand, then I need to put significantly more money on the table if I find a noticeable difference.
So this is my promise to you. As soon as the evil grasp of children and wife eases its grip. Then I will do a proper testing of cables and judge from that until that let us leave the subject to the future :)
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
@Paul7777x @Orobas
Thanks you for your inputs. I know you have the best of intentions.
I really have enjoyed your support throughout this thread and I wish to end it on a high note.
The reason I say this is because I don't share your experience. I don't believe those who says that cables makes a night and day difference, but I believe it does make a difference from my own experience.
The question for me how much I am willing to pay for this believe. How much am I willing to pay for peace of mind.
Before my search I set it to 5% of system price. FM-30 is 4000€ and TDAI-1120 is 2000€. This gives 300€ for a pair of speaker cables, which I managed to hit as accurately as you can.
Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong. Most importantly for me is that I have peace of mind. Secondly, at the price I got the cable, I have a good chance to sell it with no loss.
So if you are right and I am wrong, then no harm is done. Oppositely, if I invest in cheaper cables now and ignore the offer at hand, then I need to put significantly more money on the table if I find a noticeable difference.
So this is my promise to you. As soon as the evil grasp of children and wife eases its grip. Then I will do a proper testing of cables and judge from that until that let us leave the subject to the future :)

While I don't personally buy into cables making much, if any, difference when measurements and physics theory are taken into account, I have had limited experience of subjectively hearing a subtle difference.

In one of my older systems (Meridian & M&K based), I had some relatively expensive, at the time (£26 per metre), silver plated speaker cables in the system. I didn't actually pay for them as the dealer gave them to me when I bought my Meridian stuff, so I thought why not use them. Had no reason to doubt that they were OK as the system at that time did sound very good.

Moving on a few years, I changed my system to Arcam followed by Lyngdorf amps driving Spendor D7 speakers and consistently noticed a slight brightness/hardness in the treble on some recordings. I experimented a little with some other tricks (positioning), but in the end I thought why not try some simple copper speaker cables as they were relatively low cost. The difference to my ears was noticeable and consistent in that all of that slight brightness disappeared and it all sounded that much more balanced and cohesive. There were no negative effects that I could hear. In essence, I actually ended up with lower cost cables in my system. :laugh:

Nowadays, I use the same amps, but have changed my speakers to ATCs. Kept the same low cost copper cables and love the sound quality. :)

Before the anti-cable crowd get too excited, I remain a healthy sceptic and have no idea if I could pass a blind test or double blind test. Frankly I don't care! If a cable change sounds better to you in your system and you can afford it (without going into some of the crazily expensive esoteric magic fairy dust stuff), then why not get it. It's all about what gives you joy and satisfaction when you sit down and seriously listen to your system.

Good luck with the new system. Looking forward to hearing your experiences with it. :thumbsup:
 

Aslund

Active Member
While I don't personally buy into cables making much, if any, difference when measurements and physics theory are taken into account, I have had limited experience of subjectively hearing a subtle difference.

In one of my older systems (Meridian & M&K based), I had some relatively expensive, at the time (£26 per metre), silver plated speaker cables in the system. I didn't actually pay for them as the dealer gave them to me when I bought my Meridian stuff, so I thought why not use them. Had no reason to doubt that they were OK as the system at that time did sound very good.

Moving on a few years, I changed my system to Arcam followed by Lyngdorf amps driving Spendor D7 speakers and consistently noticed a slight brightness/hardness in the treble on some recordings. I experimented a little with some other tricks (positioning), but in the end I thought why not try some simple copper speaker cables as they were relatively low cost. The difference to my ears was noticeable and consistent in that all of that slight brightness disappeared and it all sounded that much more balanced and cohesive. There were no negative effects that I could hear. In essence, I actually ended up with lower cost cables in my system. :laugh:

Nowadays, I use the same amps, but have changed my speakers to ATCs. Kept the same low cost copper cables and love the sound quality. :)

Before the anti-cable crowd get too excited, I remain a healthy sceptic and have no idea if I could pass a blind test or double blind test. Frankly I don't care! If a cable change sounds better to you in your system and you can afford it (without going into some of the crazily expensive esoteric magic fairy dust stuff), then why not get it. It's all about what gives you joy and satisfaction when you sit down and seriously listen to your system.

Good luck with the new system. Looking forward to hearing your experiences with it. :thumbsup:
Someone had to poke the beehive :D
But thank you for your input and I am really excited. I am especially curious if I at least can notice any difference between my current Chinese YYW cable and Wireworld Equinox 8.
My YYW cable is actually the reason for my believe in cables.
Back when I was a university student I had a cheap Sony 2.1 system, when it broke I wanted to try some more serious HiFi. I ended up buying a used Dali 850+NAD 114/216 combo.
When I heard the system at the seller I was very impressed and I was lucky enough to get it delivered. When I got it he had added a simple thick copper speaker cable with the set.
When I hooked it up what hit me immediately was the harsh bright treble from the speakers. I was actually very disappointed, but I tried to live with it, to see if I could get used to it. Nothing changed, the treble was really annoying and I searched the web for help. Other people had similar problems and recommended to change the tweeter to another one. But with my limited budget it was not a feasible option.
Then someone recommended to try speaker cables from a Chinese company called YYW. So back in 2008 I paid 40£ (Hong Kong) for a pair of 2.5m YYW speaker cables.
I had a room mate who was also into HiFi (Thule AI60 + B&W floorstanders).
We setup a little test, one speaker with copper cable and another with the YYW. Then we switch between the speakers. We were sceptical but when we started playing music, the difference was night and day. The treble was smooth and clear, not at all harsh or bright.
I was shocked and surprised how much it changed. Again, I don't want to start a discussion but just share the reason for my choice. I know people like @Paul7777x and @Orobas can keep things civil. I hope I did not offend you, but during my search on this topic I found treads on the subject on AVForums that derailed totally and I really don't want to go that way with this thread. :)
 

Steve356

Distinguished Member
I hope I did not offend you, but during my search on this topic I found treads on the subject on AVForums that derailed totally and I really don't want to go that way with this thread. :)

You didn't offend me at all. I'm going to be interested in what you find. :smashin:
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Buying brand new Wirewold cables (the models you are mentioning) are very expensive new. Sure, if the price is 50 percent cheaper then I guess it’s alright. 😊.

Why are you going to use spades? Banana plugs are more convenient.
 

Aslund

Active Member
Buying brand new Wirewold cables (the models you are mentioning) are very expensive new. Sure, if the price is 50 percent cheaper then I guess it’s alright. 😊.

Why are you going to use spades? Banana plugs are more convenient.
When I first contacted Gato Audio they referred to Wireworld as a good value for money brand. Joyfully I went to futureshop.co.uk and then my heart sank for a moment and my wallet writhered in pain. Of cause they have reasonable priced cables, but they seemed so skinny compared to my YYW cable that it felt as a downgrade.
If I assume all my discounts went to the cable, then it is actually a 65-70% discount I got. That makes me a very happy upcoming owner :D.

Regarding the spades, then it is because the binding posts are pointing directly backward on FM-30. That is one of my few qualms with the speaker. It is not really designed to be placed close to the wall. You can also see it on this picture, look at the bindings posts:
 

lindsayt

Active Member
That’s it folks. The end of my week long home demo is finished. I have returned everything last Monday and I have spent my time digesting the experience.

Thanks

I owe everyone who have participated in this thread, a big thanks. Your dedication and knowledge has been essential for me to reach the finish line. From the vague starting post, the thread has turned into a journey on finding the best speaker for me. The sparing I had with you all helped me finding my path through the other side.

While I appreciate everyone’s help I must point out @Orobas. He is an entity that has transcend humanity and turn into an encyclopaedia on speakers and their sounds. Without his advice I would never have noticed Gato Audio and their speakers.

Summary

I must conclude that the Gato Audio FM-30 is an amazing speaker. Anyone looking for a speaker with a well-defined and detailed lower end and an airy top, should give these speakers a listen.
I have compared the speakers to Sonus Faber Sonetto V, and I must say that the Sonetto V are entrancing in its vocals. I had my own doubts and concerns when I listened between the FM-30 and Sonetto V and switched often between them. (I had one of each speaker connected to the amplifer). The slight attenuation in the treble made me draw towards the Sonetto V and question whether FM-30 was the best choice.
But where the treble bewitched me, the lower midrange and bass failed the Sonetto V. It became apparent, when I moved away from changing between speakers often, and instead let the songs play for a while. The tight and well-defined lower end gave a body and completeness to FM-30 that Sonetto V totally lacked. In comparison the Sonetto V felt like a rubber that was being stretched. It lacked the coherency and balance that the FM-30 had.

Besides testing FM-30 and Sonetto V, I also had the enjoyment to test the Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 amplifier. Here I must say to anyone out there. Given RoomPerfect a try. It is amazing how it can transform, no, enhance the sound of the speakers. In no way do you feel the character of the speakers are altered, instead the details are improved and there is a much better separation on the different parts of the song It is a digital amplifier and in my quest for a new speaker, I have spoken to a few people in shops. Many disregards or writes off anything digital.
I compared the TDAI-1120 with Gato Audio’s own DIA-400S, a class D amplifier. Where the DIA-400S had the bright airy treble, that I can recall hearing described by many who are against claas D, the Lyngdorf was different. With RoomPerfect the treble was warmer and fuller than that of DIA-400S.

Problems

It was a joy to test Gato Audio FM-30. The only problem was the deepest of bass. With the speakers just against the wall, RoomPerfect ensured that the bass became very authoritative and imposing. But in a few tracks, there is a slight boomy sound, just slight. An example is Bad Guy by Billie Eillish that @Steve356 refers to. I tried as a last resort to pull the speakers very far out and run RoomPerfect and it helped. The slight boom was gone, but I would never survive telling my wife that this is where the speakers should stand. Furthermore, they lost their imposing bass.
I have been wondering what to do. Room treatment is one option, but I wonder if an alternative is to get a small subwoofer. Something like an 8” or 10” subwoofer. I do not want anything that feels like an earthquake. With 2 small children in the house and living in a terraced house, I like to keep thing civil.
Alternatively, I could try a bass trap in the corner to see how that it affects the bass.
The wall behind the speakers is made of aerated concrete.

Next step

Right now, I am slowly rearranging the living room to get the fullest out of the speakers. As you can see in my recent pictures, then the sofa in front of the speakers has been moved. It is now in the back. That requires everything to move slightly, including our dinning table. I have readjusted everything and working on ensuring my wife does not get any ideas about placing anything in front of the speakers, again.
I am in no hurry, I somehow hope Lyngdorf will release a slightly more powerful big brother to the TDAI-1120. On the other hand, it does seem powerful enough. The highest I had the volume was around -24.
But if it is next week or next month, FM-30 will be bought. I have already thrown the dices and my old system is sold. Now I just have to slowly find a way, on how to get the best out of FM-30. Bass trap, subwoofer, something third?
I know for sure what would sort out the bass for you. As well as getting you better midrange and treble.
Trouble is, it's probably hugely expensive.

The big key would be for you to change your home.
A home with a large, well proportioned, solidly built room that you could dedicate to your audio system would allow you to house much larger and less fashionable looking speakers.
Speakers with great bass tend to look unfashionable. Large woofer area is required for great bass. That's the reality of reproducing sound well at those frequencies.
Then on top of that you need a room isn't an echoey cave.
Well engineered high efficiency speakers will give you midrange and treble with better dynamic freedom and clarity.

5.5" to 6" woofers in a slimline ported low efficiency design are never going to give you great bass.
Your fairly empty room with stud walls isn't helping either. Neither is the corridor shaped proportions of your room as well as the door in the wall against which you have your speakers.

I see that you've tried pulling the speakers out into the room. With you having 2 young children and the room acting as a living room for them, that seems like a poor soution to me. Having 2 speaker islands out in your room.
For that room and your really nice family situation it's better to have speakers that go flat against the wall and that are well protected and safe in the event of children bumping into them or getting curious with their fingers. And from experience, it's not so much your children that are most likely to cause issues, it's when they have friends round that something bad is likely to happen.

4000 euros is a HUGE amount to spend on speakers. Especially ones that will depreciate in value.
Please don't think that you have to spend that much money or more to get a good solution for you. There are alternatives to buying brand new, turnkey equipment.

You have a few options:
1 change home and go down the large woofer in a dedicated audio room route. In this way you will get great bass, but probably at huge cost.
2 get speakers that aren't slimline low efficiency ported - that are designed to be used against a wall or in the corner. With the right choice this would get you better bass, midrange and treble, but at the expense of you having something less fashionable looking in your home and with a wider front baffle. With the right choice, you'd also spend quite a bit less than 4000 euros on the speakers.
3 Go with what you've got and try to optimise it. For example by trying the TV and speakers firing across the room instead of firing down the length of the room. Or maybe adding some furniture or acoustic panels (yuck - I prefer furniture eg bookshelves full of vinyl / CD's / books other stuff).
4 Go for a similar solution to what you have, but with equipment that's a lot cheaper than the Lyngdorf and Gato. If you got the same or broadly similar overall sound quality from a system that cost you less than 1000 euros, then I'd see that as a good result.



I'm making this post in the spirit of making you aware of the major options that you have. It's your choice entirely which route you go down from here.
 

Aslund

Active Member
I know for sure what would sort out the bass for you. As well as getting you better midrange and treble.
Trouble is, it's probably hugely expensive.

The big key would be for you to change your home.
A home with a large, well proportioned, solidly built room that you could dedicate to your audio system would allow you to house much larger and less fashionable looking speakers.
Speakers with great bass tend to look unfashionable. Large woofer area is required for great bass. That's the reality of reproducing sound well at those frequencies.
Then on top of that you need a room isn't an echoey cave.
Well engineered high efficiency speakers will give you midrange and treble with better dynamic freedom and clarity.

5.5" to 6" woofers in a slimline ported low efficiency design are never going to give you great bass.
Your fairly empty room with stud walls isn't helping either. Neither is the corridor shaped proportions of your room as well as the door in the wall against which you have your speakers.

I see that you've tried pulling the speakers out into the room. With you having 2 young children and the room acting as a living room for them, that seems like a poor soution to me. Having 2 speaker islands out in your room.
For that room and your really nice family situation it's better to have speakers that go flat against the wall and that are well protected and safe in the event of children bumping into them or getting curious with their fingers. And from experience, it's not so much your children that are most likely to cause issues, it's when they have friends round that something bad is likely to happen.

4000 euros is a HUGE amount to spend on speakers. Especially ones that will depreciate in value.
Please don't think that you have to spend that much money or more to get a good solution for you. There are alternatives to buying brand new, turnkey equipment.

You have a few options:
1 change home and go down the large woofer in a dedicated audio room route. In this way you will get great bass, but probably at huge cost.
2 get speakers that aren't slimline low efficiency ported - that are designed to be used against a wall or in the corner. With the right choice this would get you better bass, midrange and treble, but at the expense of you having something less fashionable looking in your home and with a wider front baffle. With the right choice, you'd also spend quite a bit less than 4000 euros on the speakers.
3 Go with what you've got and try to optimise it. For example by trying the TV and speakers firing across the room instead of firing down the length of the room. Or maybe adding some furniture or acoustic panels (yuck - I prefer furniture eg bookshelves full of vinyl / CD's / books other stuff).
4 Go for a similar solution to what you have, but with equipment that's a lot cheaper than the Lyngdorf and Gato. If you got the same or broadly similar overall sound quality from a system that cost you less than 1000 euros, then I'd see that as a good result.



I'm making this post in the spirit of making you aware of the major options that you have. It's your choice entirely which route you go down from here.
Thank you @lindsayt for you input.
Honestly I don't know how seriously I can take you, when your input circles around buying a new house for the sole purpose of getting a better room for the speakers.
I feel I had great success with FM-30 in my room. For me there is only the slight issue with the deepest of bass, that I need to rein in.
 
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Aslund

Active Member
So close so close.
I just picked up my speakers today. I had looked forward to a weekend where I could challenge myself whether I could hear any difference between my old Chinese YYW cables and the Wireworld Equinox 8 cables.
It already went downhill yesterday. I already sold my old system, but for the past 3 weeks I also had my cables for sale, including the YYW cables. Yesterday a fish finally went on the hook.
I bought the cables back in 2008 for 48 euro, I managed to get an offer on 68 euro for them.
Hard to pass on the chance to earn money on 13 year old cables :D Sadly he wanted to pick them up today and they are already gone.
To add insult to injury, my Equinox 8 cables are sadly delayed, but I was allowed to borrow a pair of Wireworld Solstice cables. While it will not be a direct A/B comparison, then I am curious if I notice anything when I get my Equinox 8 cable or I will join the "snake oil" crowd :D
 

ooctaviuss

Active Member
I really interested what you will hear 😄😄:D regarding to cables.
 

Aslund

Active Member
I finally found time today to unbox the speakers. While I was excited to put them in place I was a bit puzzled with the quality of the finish. I did not notice the same with the demo speakers, but it might come down to the fact that I have put money on the table. Then you are automatically a lot critical.
I have uploaded some pictures here:

Generally the right speaker has problems with a lot of dust inside the lacquering, while the left one has issues with the crossover between the two walnut laminates.

Am I too picky or should I contact Gato Audio?
I wonder if I should pick up the white model instead.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
I finally found time today to unbox the speakers. While I was excited to put them in place I was a bit puzzled with the quality of the finish. I did not notice the same with the demo speakers, but it might come down to the fact that I have put money on the table. Then you are automatically a lot critical.
I have uploaded some pictures here:

Generally the right speaker has problems with a lot of dust inside the lacquering, while the left one has issues with the crossover between the two walnut laminates.

Am I too picky or should I contact Gato Audio?
I wonder if I should pick up the white model instead.
Given what you have paid for those FM's ... i would not be happy with that finish .. I would contact them and send the photos through and see what they will do.

Forgive me for saying this.. but those speakers look like used or returned or ex demo to me.. not brand spanking new. either way its not good enough
 

Aslund

Active Member
Given what you have paid for those FM's ... i would not be happy with that finish .. I would contact them and send the photos through and see what they will do.

Forgive me for saying this.. but those speakers look like used or returned or ex demo to me.. not brand spanking new. either way its not good enough
The issues with the speaker does not seem to come from being used before. The problem is, from my point of view, the cabinet manufacturer. The dust and particles are coming from a dirty environment when the speakers get their glossy coating.
The wood veneer also seem to be poorly put on with tiny, but visible gaps around the edges.

Gato Audio specifically point out they got a new cabinet manufacturer in their 2021 update.
We worked closely with our new cabinet manufacturer to ensure even better fit and finish of our loudspeakers.
 

Orobas

Well-known Member
The issues with the speaker does not seem to come from being used before. The problem is from my point of view the cabinet manufacturer. The dust and particles are coming from a dirty environment when the speakers get their glossy coating.
The wood veneer also seem to be poorly put on with tiny, but visible gaps around the edges.

Gato Audio specifically point out they got a new cabinet manufacturer in their 2021 update.
With that being said.. they seriously need to look at their end product before shipping out cause that is poor.. if i saw that landing on my door.. it would be going straight back before ordering a set of ex demo Audiovector R3 Arrete's and then worry about my amp being able to cope with them afterwards and how much it's going to bankrupt me to solve the amp problem lmao

A 4K pair of speakers... should look it.. or get it replaced with a pair that look it.. and that is Gato's problem.. they are new (as you state) so under warranty .. its their priority to fix / replace / refund as such.. so push them.. phone them.. hassle them!
 

musicphil

Active Member
Those speakers do look like ex demo or worse still a used pair.
I would contact the seller for replacement.
 

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