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Choice of 5 TV's but can't decide which one to buy.

everway9

Established Member
Hey everyone. :)

I've come here because I've just not got enough experience and I know this forum has a lot of people who really know what they are talking about.

I'm having great difficulty deciding which TV is going to give the absolute best possible picture for 4K HDR BluRay and 4K Gaming. I have a choice between 3 LG's and 2 Panasonic's. I'm not really bothered about any of the smart features. I'd just like the one which has the best hardware.

The problem is that I need to decide by midday tomorrow and therefore I don't have enough time to research. So if anyone can help I'd be extremely grateful. Many thanks in advancce. :)

I'd like to know which of the following TV's would be the best.

49UH750V | LG LED TV | ao.com

49UJ670V | 49” 4K LG LED TV | ao.com

49UJ750V | 49 Inch 4K LG TV | ao.com

TX-49EX600B | Panasonic 4K Ultra HD LED TV | 49” | ao.com

TX-50EX700B | Panasonic 4K Ultra HD LED TV | 50” | ao.com
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
All of them are very limited in terms of HDR reproduction, it's a technology for higher end TVs right now. At 49" Sony's XE90 at around £1300 is your best bet for HDR.

In terms of more general picture quality you can discount the lower models which leaves the UH750, EX700 and UJ750. Unfortunately LG's UH750 was typically more expensive than the 770 so it never got much of a review and there don't seem to be any reviews of the UJ750 yet.

FlatpanelsHD gives the EX700 a solid bill of health for a mid-range TV and LG are usually the weakest on general picture quality so that would be the most likely TV to meet your criteria.
Panasonic EX700 review - FlatpanelsHD
 

everway9

Established Member
Hi EndlessWaves.

Thanks very much for your help. :)

So that EX700 is the best of the Panasonic ones then? That's the first one I looked at. I'm quite tempted by that one actually.
 

everway9

Established Member
I'm really sorry. There was one important thing I completely forgot to ask.

I'm going to be watching a lot of standard HD 1080/720 tv programs and movies too so I need good upscalling too. Would the Panasonic EX700 have the better upscalling quality too or all all 4K tv's much the same when it comes to upscalling?

Thanks.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
HDR will be very limited even on the EX700 which is the best of the bad bunch in your selection. If you want anything more than just better colours with HDR I would hold off buying until you can afford a tv around the £1000 mark.

That aside with a limited budget you would be much better off getting last year's DX750 or DX802. If you can't find them new then Panasonic have them for sale on their refurb eBay store.

By getting a 2017 model you are paying more for...less.
 
Yup or go second hand for a high end 2016 model or go second hand for an older oled which will at least offer elite sdr.
 

everway9

Established Member
Hi again. :)

You're going to say 'I told you so'.

OK so I made the big mistake of buying the EX700. I'm sending it back. :( :( It's no better really than my old Hisense H49M3000 in terms of motion judder. The EX700 has an option called 'Intelligent Frame Creation' which I'm sure you will know about. That setting did actually make the picture very smooth but as you know it creates other entirely different problems.

I had to buy from AO.com because the EX700 was an upgrade to the Hisense which I bought back in January. I complained about the Hisense and long story short I ended up getting a full refund and the EX700 heavily discounted. I only ended up paying £519 the list price was £759. Therefore to keep the discount I have to buy from AO again. If not I'll loose the discount and will have to pay even more for another upgrade.

I'm an idiot I know for buying that EX700 after all the advice you game me. I'm sorry about that.

So now I obviously need to fork out some more cash to ensure that I get something with a much smoother picture. Something that will be smooth without having to use any of the glorified picture enhancement options.

With me returning the EX700 I will basically be getting £759 back. I can possibly add another £200 on to that and look at something better.

So whats the cheapest 4K 50inch'ish TV with HDR and/or Dolby Vision TV thats any good that will have a nice smooth picture? Should I be looking at OLED? Are OLED TV's smoother in general?

I'm at a loss and getting my self stressed out about it all. I'd like to finally get something that I will be happy with. I don't have much more money I can add to the £759 but I'm hoping that an extra 200 - 250 might get me something pretty decent.

I really did appreciate your initial help... I'd be so very grateful if you would help me out one more time.


Thanks for reading. :)
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
The easiest way to measure motion theoretically is by running a common tv review test: based on the horizontally scrolling lines in Chapter 31 of the FPD Benchmark Software test disc. You can't natively have any more than average 300 lines of motion on an LCD or OLED, for that you'll need a plasma.

So with LCDs/OLEDs you get technology that helps motion appear better according to our crappy human eyes.

  1. Frame interpolation - frames are predicted in advance and inserted between each real frame to make them seem smoother. This causes soap opera effect and motion artefacts.
  2. Frame insertion - blank black/red frames are inserted between frames very fast paced. The higher the setting the more blank frames can be inserted. The higher the panel Hz and backlight hz the more frames can be inserted. This smoothes out motion without adding soap opera effect or artefacts like interpolation does. It does however darken the image and to some people the flicker is to bad, although the latter issue has improved a lot in the past couple of years.

How every tv manufacturer implements this tech is different, some do, some don't, some partially do, most do more on higher end models. How strongly you can use each setting also depends on panel Hz and backlight Hz, so usually the higher end LCDs are better at this.

Your EX700 for example is an entry level UHD tv. It has a 50hz panel and has some motion enhancements, but not ones able to be used at their strongest. For that you'll need a tv with a 100hz panel and a faster hz backlight.

Now each manufacturers implementation is different right? Each tv model is different too.

Some let you control independently how strong each setting is. Some only let you change preset without customisation. Some only support interpolation.

So with this in mind you want to try and find a model with the highest hz panel you can (100) with also settings that match your needs.

Sony tv's with 100hz panels generally get good motion reviews. Sadly most mid range/low range Sony's also use IPS panels. That means if you want a Sony on a budget you lose out with generally worse screen uniformity, greyer blacks and lower contrast. You can customise to have only frame insertion, but only up to a point. To fully reach those 1080 plasma like lines you need to use a bit of interpolation so vis-a-vis some soap opera effect. However most people say this isn't really that noticeable or is very slight.

Samsung LCDs tv's give you full customisation

Panasonic LCDs give full customisation

LG LCD tv's don't have much frame insertion, if at all. They rely on interpolation too much. You get custom control but you can't get 1080 lines with it. Even with their high end LCDs and interpolation they still only reach around 900 lines n

Hisense LCD tv's are similar to LG except you can only reach 600 lines, with interpolation.

Philips LCD tv's tend to be great with motion. They have customisation and can reach 1080 lines without interpolation.

But ultimately everyone's eyes are different and you may will be happy even with a 50hz tv. Sometimes there's judder present in a source no matter what tv. Sometimes there are faults in encoding on tv that can cause judder. Sometimes people complain about judder and it's natural in movies because they are shot at such low FPS.

Go demo some tv's yourself. Take your own content and see what you think. You may be happy with another tv without any motion settings on or you may prefer one kind of motion processing better than another.

Generally in reviews Samsung's implementation of frame insertion is rated best, followed by Panasonic and Philips. Sony's isn't the best as it causes more flickering than the others when using frame insertion. Hisense and LG are worst imo

So tltr if you don't want to fiddle with settings look at a second hand plasma for motion. If you want to find an LCD good with motion look at high end models. If you want good motion from a cheaper LCD it will likely mean you have to settle for a worse panel type.
 
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everway9

Established Member
Thanks Dodgexander for all that very informative post.

Maybe I should be looking at a Samsung now then. There was a Samsung curved TV AO told me about but I didn't like the idea of a curved TV. It's actually the same price as the EX700.

UE49MU6500 |Samsung LED TV | ao.com It's a 100Hz refresh rate.

Would this Samsung be better than the Panasonic or would I be just as well sticking with this Panasonic.. is it the best I'm going to get unless I really go big bucks?
 

everway9

Established Member
Yeah I'm using the Clear Motion setting. I think another problem I have is that I'm not really sure which combination of settings will give me the best results.
 

everway9

Established Member
That MU model isn't 100hz. Its a 50hz model. Can you buy elsewhere than ao.com? Can you buy later or does it have to be now?

Oh. :( It said in the Screen Technology section that the standard refresh rate was 100Hz. I'd believe you over them though any day. :D

Unfortunately AO.com is the only place I can get an TV from. There's a long story behind all this but basically AO have given me a £200 discount. If I buy from anywhere else I'd lose £200 of my budget. As it stands now I basically have £749 + what ever else I can find which will be about £200-250. So anything on AO for £1000 or less will be manageable. I need to decide by tomorrow whether to keep this EX700 or get something else.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Well, I had a look at their website (terrible website btw) and they don't have anything that would represent better value than what you already have. There is the Hisense N6800 which is about on par with your TV but I think I would prefer to keep your EX700.

That's just because they are only stocking 2017 models. Those that they do have from 2016 aren't good choices as they use inferior contrast panels.

In short, if you can't get a refund. Keep what you have. Alternatively you could return what you have for credit to spend their later on?
 

everway9

Established Member
I AO would only refund me the price of the original Hisense I bought from them which was about £469 + the £150 I paid towards the EX700.

So I'm guessing that the Curved Samsung will be no better than the EX700. Would it be as good.

I understood what you have said about all the different manufacturers and appreciate all the info. But would the Sony KD49XE8004BU really not be any better than the EX700?
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
But would the Sony KD49XE8004BU really not be any better than the EX700?

How much light is there in the room when you're watching TV?

If you have a home cinema set up with dim lighting then you'd probably notice the lack of contrast, if you have a brightly lit room then it could be a good option.
 

everway9

Established Member
I wouldn't say its a bright light in the room. I don't use those white light bulbs. It's a warm light if you know what I mean.

I can't seem to find a TV on AO.com which actually does have a 100Hz refresh rate. Are all the 100Hz models just super expensive?

If thats the case maybe I should be finding out which TV has the best picture enhancement features. The Sony has Motionflow™ XR 200Hz. I totally don't understand what that means when the Native is 50Hz.

I can't remember if I've told you or not but one of the main reasons I'm wanting something smooth and clear is that I suffer from migraines. Since I bought the Hisense H49M3000 I was getting a lot of eye strain and more migraines than I normally would have. I stopped using the Hisense for 2 weeks and the migraines subsided. I started to use it again and the migraines came back. I went and got my eyes checked incase something was wrong but there wasn't. I'm very lucky as I've got perfect vision.

I wish I could just go and see some of these TV's before I decide but the closest TV retailer is 20 miles away. I don't have a car and live in the middle of nowhere where there's no public transport.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
But how often do you watch with the lights on? Do you prefer it to be all dark and to see deep blacks or do you usually just watch TV during the day/evening with lights on. If the latter you can look at TVs that have IPS panels and you should be able to find a 100hz one.

If you are sensetive to flicker its probably PWM flicker thats causing it, you'll want to find a TV that doesn't use this and you definitely do not want to use clear motion settings on tv's as that does cause flicker! It helps with perceived motion...but it works by inserting frames very fast.

That Sony TV would be a decent choice for flicker, they tend not to use PWM so much, but it has worse contrast than the EX700 so in that respect it will be a downgrade. With the lights on though, you won't really see much of a difference.

One thing I would consider would be bias lighting behind the TV. Maybe you it would be an option to get your own or buy a philips model with ambilight, it should ease watching if you do so in the dark especially.
 

everway9

Established Member
Oh. Sorry... Normally I have the light on when I'm watching. I do actually have a lamp behind my TV as well. It's one of those Dimmable RGB 5W B22 Colour Changing LED Light Bulb with IR Remote Control.

By flicker do you mean the sort of flicker that you get from fluorescent tube lighting?

The deeper the blacks are the better but I'm not too fussed about it. So long as it's black. :)

These are all the higher models I can afford to upgrade to on AO.com. If they are upgrades that is. ??

49SJ800V | 49 inch | LG LED TV | ao.com

UE55MU6500 Samsung LED TV | ao.com

UE55MU6400| Samsung LED TV | ao.com

Sony KD55XE7002BU 55" Smart 4K Ultra HD with HDR TV - Black

KD49XE8004BU | Sony 4K Ultra HD LED TV | 49” | ao.com

If any of those will be better than the EX700 I'll go for one. If not I will stick with what I've got.

Thanks again.
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
If thats the case maybe I should be finding out which TV has the best picture enhancement features. The Sony has Motionflow™ XR 200Hz. I totally don't understand what that means

Nothing at all, it's a number invented by a marketing department rather than any sort of measurement.

I can't remember if I've told you or not but one of the main reasons I'm wanting something smooth and clear is that I suffer from migraines. Since I bought the Hisense H49M3000 I was getting a lot of eye strain and more migraines than I normally would have.

The normal cause of that is having the brightness too high for the ambient lighting. Hisense models tend to be fairly dim though, and you watch with the lights on so it could well be PWM flicker or something else.
 
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everway9

Established Member
Thanks for the info. :)

Does the LG 49SJ800V use much PWM?

Would a 100Hz TV be better than any 50Hz TV? It seems like all the 'entry level' TV's are 50Hz. If thats the case and the LG is a 100Hz TV I might get it.

Thanks.......... again. :)
 

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